lock-back?

Tigrebleau · 06-08-2009, 10:09 PM

I received 2 service grade M1 Garands from CMP 2 weeks ago (ammo not here yet) and cleaned up one of them so far. I took everything apart, including the bolt and follower mechanisms, and cleaned off the cosmoline and lubed everything. It all looked okay except the recoil spring, which fell apart into 4 pieces so I replaced it. I'll probably replace the springs inside the bolt and the trigger mechanism even though they looked fine, just to be sure. I noticed before disassembly that the bolt does not retract all the way unless I depress the enbloc follower while pulling back the charging handle. It still does it after cleaning and lubing. The other Garand locks back all the way no problem. Does this mean the gun is unsafe to shoot? It's an HR with 5 million-range serial number. The other one is also an HR with a 4 million-range number.
I have no experience with these, so any advice appreciated.

JimBob · 06-08-2009, 11:51 PM

The problem you are describing is normally caused by a defective clip latch and/or clip latch spring.If you are new to the M1 buy one of those reprint gov't.Field Manuals(FM) and Tech Manuals(TM).They'll give you a lot of information for a few dollars spent.

gunnerdave · 06-09-2009, 12:15 AM

You might find this attachment useful. If you received the rifles from CMP recently, call Customer Service. They can put you in touch with an armorer to help solve the problem. CMP's Customer Service is the best there is. Hands Down.

HTH

Dave

Dookiebutt · 06-09-2009, 06:03 AM

CMP customer service is somewhat legendary for resolving issues like yours. Call them. I bet you have some new springs on their way when you hang up the phone. One of the members here wrote a really good book that you might want to look into . . . MidwayUSA - "The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide" Book by Walt Kuleck with Clint McKee

Tigrebleau · 06-09-2009, 09:28 PM

Thanks for the helpful replies. I'll call CMP Cust Svc tomorrow. I hope replacing the springs will fix the problem. I already bought replacement springs along with all the others just in case. I guess I shouldn't try shooting it until it's fixed. I was a bit surprised to find the recoil spring disintegrating when I took the thing apart. One of my gun club members told me all the CMP service grades rifles he was aware of were fine just as received. I guess nothing's perfect.

gunnerdave · 06-09-2009, 11:26 PM

When I got 2 HRA Service Grade Greek returns a couple years back, the op rod springs came out in pieces. There was a problem with brittle springs for a while. Look down the tube with a strong light or run a straightened wire coat hanger down the length of the tube to make sure all of the broken pieces are out. Orion 7 sells nice stainless steel op rod springs that are well worth the price. lifetime guarantee, I think.

HTH

Dave

BTW Welcome to the forum!

LavaTech · 06-10-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimBob

The problem you are describing is normally caused by a defective clip latch and/or clip latch spring.If you are new to the M1 buy one of those reprint gov't.Field Manuals(FM) and Tech Manuals(TM).They'll give you a lot of information for a few dollars spent.

I just recently completed the first step(s) of producing a companion to the TM9-1276 1947 (Carbine) technical manual PDF I posted to the web a couple years ago. This one is for the "other" M1, and is revision 1.0 of TM9-1275 1947
This is intended to be (like the carbine TM) the best version of this PDF available to download, and is the same affordable price (FREE). A good reference for the M1 rifle, once I've beaten it into submission such that it looks right and is (near as I can tell) 100% error free, I may just go ahead and do FM 23-5 for all of us Garandaholics.
If there's anything else desired from my shared eBooks Page, feel free to grab it.

Quote:

Orion 7 sells nice stainless steel op rod springs that are well worth the price.

And they're even better when Tony has his occasional Christmastime sale (10 for $50 - a steal!)

Tigrebleau · 06-10-2009, 09:44 PM

Wow, that's a heck of a deal for the manual. I really appreciate the info available on this forum.

I called CMP today and talked with an armorer. He said he'd never seen the problem I described - failure to lock fully open unless the follower is depressed. He checked with his colleagues while I was on the phone and they hadn't heard of it either. His only suggestion is to send it back to them to be checked out. I'll replace the clip latch spring and compare the latch to the one on the rifle that works. If that fails to correct the problem, I guess I'll send it back. Nuts.

edit note: I went to the ebooks site and got the following message from my anti-virus software:
"
Website blocked by Trend Micro Internet Security

This Web page has been identified as Dangerous.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> For your own safety, please close this web browser window now and never return to this website. "

What's up with that?

M14man · 06-10-2009, 10:40 PM

I got a similar warning at work. I'm sure the bosses will be calling me in the AM since we are not supposed to be visiting sites not work related.

rondog · 06-11-2009, 01:17 AM

Uh-oh, I just downloaded a bunch of stuff from there, I didn't read all these posts first. I didn't get any pop-ups though.

LavaTech · 06-11-2009, 12:24 PM

Some (actually most) anti-virus/anti-malware applications will and do give "false positives" (how "false" is more or less dependent on the browser you're using in this particular case IMHO; I use Opera and have since v3.0, and it lets exceedingly few popups through. Combined with ESET Nod32 AV I have no problems, and have had no alerts. This doesn't mean that I particularly like MediaFire, but the price is right! Unfortunately MediaFire is one of the few sites that does get popups onto my screen, but I just close them and move on. This will gain a life of its own and be available in more places on the web in short order if the carbine TM is any indication.

Baconbits · 06-11-2009, 08:26 PM

My SG HRA was suffering from "short recoil". I'm glad I sent it back to the CMP for repair. Too many variables for me to try and fix. Thanks gunnerdave for the chart.

gunnerdave · 06-11-2009, 11:58 PM

You're welcome!

Tigrebleau · 06-12-2009, 10:48 PM

Another call to CMP solved the problem of failure to lock back all the way. I talked with a helpful armorer who told me to check if the follower was installed backwards. One end of it is arrowhead shaped and should point toward the bolt face. It is possible to install it backwards which prevents full lock-back. I checked, it had been installed wrong, so I turned it around and everything now works right.
I gotta tell you, the guy was so helpful and eager to help me get everything right: he told me if I had any concerns to send the rifle back to him and he would personally make it right. I called him back today to tell him the result, thank him for being so helpful and tell him it was refreshing to talk to the real America. If I live long enough to retire, I'm leaving NJ and moving back to America.

Iron_Colonel · 06-13-2009, 01:51 AM

Excellent you have your problem solved. It is also good to hear that the CMP customer service is so good as well. I have not heard one bad thing, and my experience talking with one of them on the phone was most pleasant. The woman was very friendly, and very helpful as I was asking about expired documents, and if it would affect my current order. Since my order was accepted and acknowledged before the new year (2009) everything was fine. I didn't think it would be a problem, but I didn't want any problems with my Garand order!

Don't forget to sign your Garands up in the roll call thread too with some pics!!

GlockMeister · 06-27-2009, 02:05 AM

FWIW, McAfee site advisor is green for the ebooks page/site. HM, go figure. lol

If there is any concern I have about the ebooks site, it's the fact it's a file sharing site. But as long as you scan before you open or download, you should be fine. And if you use Mozilla Firefox, there's an add-on called scan with Dr. Web. Once you've downloaded it and added it to Firefox, you can scan a link before you even open it.

ArkansasHunter · 06-27-2009, 02:16 AM

Question ? Doesn't CMP check these rifles for issue problems before they ship them ?

I thought they refurbished these rifles...Do they ? I find it hard to believe they send them out with. example::: Crumbeling springs.

That's all...A.H

GlockMeister · 06-27-2009, 02:27 AM

A.H., you'd think they should wouldn't you. I hope they do.

gunnerdave · 06-27-2009, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Question ? Doesn't CMP check these rifles for issue problems before they ship them ?

I thought they refurbished these rifles...Do they ? I find it hard to believe they send them out with. example::: Crumbeling springs.

That's all...A.H

The rifles are checked for headspace & function before they ship. The last step in the process is test-firing, then the rifle is shipped, not taken apart & cleaned/inspected again. My guess is, the rifles I got with broken op rod springs looked fine during cleaning/inspection/grading and the spring broke during test-firing. It's better to have the stainless steel springs from Orion 7 anyway. They're great, and have a lifetime guarantee.

HTH

Dave

Orlando · 06-27-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Question ? Doesn't CMP check these rifles for issue problems before they ship them ?

I thought they refurbished these rifles...Do they ? I find it hard to believe they send them out with. example::: Crumbeling springs.

That's all...A.H

No they are not refurbished by CMP
They are checked for headspace and test fired.
A Garand can still function with a broken Op Rod spring, so this would not be caught in the test fire. They do not completely strip down each rifle and check each parts.
Broken or worn springs should be expected and be replaced by the buyer afterall these are old surplus rifles

Just imagine the mapower and expense it would be to inspect each parts of each rifle.
I couldnt imagine what it would add to the cost of each rifle

06-08-2009, 10:09 PM	#1
Tigrebleau Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4	lock-back? I received 2 service grade M1 Garands from CMP 2 weeks ago (ammo not here yet) and cleaned up one of them so far. I took everything apart, including the bolt and follower mechanisms, and cleaned off the cosmoline and lubed everything. It all looked okay except the recoil spring, which fell apart into 4 pieces so I replaced it. I'll probably replace the springs inside the bolt and the trigger mechanism even though they looked fine, just to be sure. I noticed before disassembly that the bolt does not retract all the way unless I depress the enbloc follower while pulling back the charging handle. It still does it after cleaning and lubing. The other Garand locks back all the way no problem. Does this mean the gun is unsafe to shoot? It's an HR with 5 million-range serial number. The other one is also an HR with a 4 million-range number. I have no experience with these, so any advice appreciated. Last edited by Tigrebleau; 06-08-2009 at 10:12 PM.

06-09-2009, 06:03 AM	#4
Dookiebutt Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: America's North Coast Posts: 2,010	CMP customer service is somewhat legendary for resolving issues like yours. Call them. I bet you have some new springs on their way when you hang up the phone. One of the members here wrote a really good book that you might want to look into . . . MidwayUSA - "The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide" Book by Walt Kuleck with Clint McKee __________________ The nerds will never understand the awesomeness of it.

06-09-2009, 09:28 PM	#5
Tigrebleau Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4	Thanks for the helpful replies. I'll call CMP Cust Svc tomorrow. I hope replacing the springs will fix the problem. I already bought replacement springs along with all the others just in case. I guess I shouldn't try shooting it until it's fixed. I was a bit surprised to find the recoil spring disintegrating when I took the thing apart. One of my gun club members told me all the CMP service grades rifles he was aware of were fine just as received. I guess nothing's perfect. Last edited by Tigrebleau; 06-09-2009 at 09:40 PM.

06-09-2009, 11:26 PM	#6
gunnerdave Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 653	When I got 2 HRA Service Grade Greek returns a couple years back, the op rod springs came out in pieces. There was a problem with brittle springs for a while. Look down the tube with a strong light or run a straightened wire coat hanger down the length of the tube to make sure all of the broken pieces are out. Orion 7 sells nice stainless steel op rod springs that are well worth the price. lifetime guarantee, I think. HTH Dave BTW Welcome to the forum! __________________ Show me where Josef Stalin is buried & I'll show you a communist plot.

06-10-2009, 09:44 PM	#8
Tigrebleau Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4	Wow, that's a heck of a deal for the manual. I really appreciate the info available on this forum. I called CMP today and talked with an armorer. He said he'd never seen the problem I described - failure to lock fully open unless the follower is depressed. He checked with his colleagues while I was on the phone and they hadn't heard of it either. His only suggestion is to send it back to them to be checked out. I'll replace the clip latch spring and compare the latch to the one on the rifle that works. If that fails to correct the problem, I guess I'll send it back. Nuts. edit note: I went to the ebooks site and got the following message from my anti-virus software: " Website blocked by Trend Micro Internet Security This Web page has been identified as Dangerous. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > For your own safety, please close this web browser window now and never return to this website. " What's up with that? Last edited by Tigrebleau; 06-10-2009 at 09:55 PM.

06-08-2009, 11:51 PM	#2
JimBob Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: East Central Illinois Posts: 720	The problem you are describing is normally caused by a defective clip latch and/or clip latch spring.If you are new to the M1 buy one of those reprint gov't.Field Manuals(FM) and Tech Manuals(TM).They'll give you a lot of information for a few dollars spent.

06-10-2009, 10:40 PM	#9
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 1,151	I got a similar warning at work. I'm sure the bosses will be calling me in the AM since we are not supposed to be visiting sites not work related.

06-11-2009, 01:17 AM	#10
rondog Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 3,216	Uh-oh, I just downloaded a bunch of stuff from there, I didn't read all these posts first. I didn't get any pop-ups though. __________________ I child-proofed my house, but they still keep getting in!

06-11-2009, 12:24 PM	#11
LavaTech Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pasadena, PRK Posts: 28	Some (actually most) anti-virus/anti-malware applications will and do give "false positives" (how "false" is more or less dependent on the browser you're using in this particular case IMHO; I use Opera and have since v3.0, and it lets exceedingly few popups through. Combined with ESET Nod32 AV I have no problems, and have had no alerts. This doesn't mean that I particularly like MediaFire, but the price is right! Unfortunately MediaFire is one of the few sites that does get popups onto my screen, but I just close them and move on. This will gain a life of its own and be available in more places on the web in short order if the carbine TM is any indication. __________________ Revolutionary War Veterans Association - http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

06-11-2009, 08:26 PM	#12
Baconbits Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern VA Posts: 147	My SG HRA was suffering from "short recoil". I'm glad I sent it back to the CMP for repair. Too many variables for me to try and fix. Thanks gunnerdave for the chart.

06-11-2009, 11:58 PM	#13
gunnerdave Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 653	You're welcome! __________________ Show me where Josef Stalin is buried & I'll show you a communist plot.

06-12-2009, 10:48 PM	#14
Tigrebleau Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4	Another call to CMP solved the problem of failure to lock back all the way. I talked with a helpful armorer who told me to check if the follower was installed backwards. One end of it is arrowhead shaped and should point toward the bolt face. It is possible to install it backwards which prevents full lock-back. I checked, it had been installed wrong, so I turned it around and everything now works right. I gotta tell you, the guy was so helpful and eager to help me get everything right: he told me if I had any concerns to send the rifle back to him and he would personally make it right. I called him back today to tell him the result, thank him for being so helpful and tell him it was refreshing to talk to the real America. If I live long enough to retire, I'm leaving NJ and moving back to America.

06-13-2009, 01:51 AM	#15
Iron_Colonel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington St. Posts: 3,210	Excellent you have your problem solved. It is also good to hear that the CMP customer service is so good as well. I have not heard one bad thing, and my experience talking with one of them on the phone was most pleasant. The woman was very friendly, and very helpful as I was asking about expired documents, and if it would affect my current order. Since my order was accepted and acknowledged before the new year (2009) everything was fine. I didn't think it would be a problem, but I didn't want any problems with my Garand order! Don't forget to sign your Garands up in the roll call thread too with some pics!! __________________ Mosin Nagant evangelist on a mission to convert YOU! Last edited by Iron_Colonel; 06-13-2009 at 01:58 AM.

06-27-2009, 02:05 AM	#16
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,578	FWIW, McAfee site advisor is green for the ebooks page/site. HM, go figure. lol If there is any concern I have about the ebooks site, it's the fact it's a file sharing site. But as long as you scan before you open or download, you should be fine. And if you use Mozilla Firefox, there's an add-on called scan with Dr. Web. Once you've downloaded it and added it to Firefox, you can scan a link before you even open it. __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke" Last edited by GlockMeister; 06-27-2009 at 02:09 AM.

06-27-2009, 02:16 AM	#17
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas. Posts: 16,943	Question ? Doesn't CMP check these rifles for issue problems before they ship them ? I thought they refurbished these rifles...Do they ? I find it hard to believe they send them out with. example::: Crumbeling springs. That's all...A.H __________________ IN GOD WE TRUST NRA MEMBER

06-27-2009, 02:27 AM	#18
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,578	A.H., you'd think they should wouldn't you. I hope they do. __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke"