4895,173NM bullets 44.5 grains of powder

[cat1870]

Hello All,
I'm new to this forum & new to the M1 Garand.
I recently purchased a Winchester M1, & am having a ball with it.

I'm trying an experiment on the number of times I can load the brass before any signs of case streching are encountered.
I'm using 173 grain bullets.
44.5 grs. of H4895.
Remington once fired brass. 16 cases at a time.
WLR primers & sizing the brass with an RCBS small base sizing die.

After each firing I'm checking the case length & triming back to 2.490, if required. After each sizing I then check the inside of the case with a paper clip looking for any signs for case seperation. So far, after 6 firings, I haven't encountered any signs of what-so-ever.
Has anyone else tried this? If so, I'd like to hear of their experience.

Thanks,

Cat

[charles73]

Sounds like a cool experiment. Are you using an adjustable gas plug? Just wondering. I might try it myself.

[Ericc]

Hi Cat,

You might find that the Garand simply will beat your brass to death before you start to see signs of impending case separation.

I've heard the norm is 6-10 reloads.

Eric

[jtuck]

Cool experiment. I just started the same myself using X-dies, but I am only on loading #3.

[cat1870]

What is the x-die?

[jtuck]

RCBS X-Die 2-Die Set 308 Winchester - MidwayUSA

[cat1870]

Yes....but what is the x-die? What's the difference from the standard die?

[jtuck]

The X-die eliminates case growth. Basically you trim the case once and the mandrel keeps the case from growing past the maximum case length. They are also supposed to extend the case life. I have read an experiment done by one guy that had loaded cases for his M1 over 14 or 15 times.

[cat1870]

Well.........I want one.

[gandog56]

So, not being an M1 owner, have I been told wrong? I heard you really weren't supposed to use bullets heavier than 150 grains in an Garand.

Like your powder choice, though. It's my favorite rifle powder.

[Ericc]

Originally Posted by gandog56

So, not being an M1 owner, have I been told wrong? I heard you really weren't supposed to use bullets heavier than 150 grains in an Garand.

Like your powder choice, though. It's my favorite rifle powder.

You can. However, attention must be paid to port pressures, powder speeds etc.

The armor piercing round is 165gr.

The M72 Match is 173gr.

Both of which have been fired for decades out of Garands.

Eric

[Aznative]

Case separation is a function of how far the powder charge pushes the case's shoulder until it contacts the shoulder of the chamber. Keep in mind the base of the brass is being pushed against the bolt head. This action causes stretching. If you have a large chamber and are resizing the brass well under Sammi max case size, the brass has to stretch a lot. If the brass is being resized just a minimum amount to properly chamber, the brass doesn't strech hardly at all. If the first example the brass will seperate very quickly. In the last example, the brass will last a long time.

[cat1870]

After firing these 16 rounds with the above load I found that after the 7th firing, 4 of the 16 did have head seperation simptoms. That's 25%. That's the end of that group of brass...

Cat

[Silvertip44]

Trying to get more than 4 good loads out of brass in an M1 or an M1A may be carrying things a bit too far. I got case head separations in both and have limited my reloads to no more than three in known once fired brass.
The M1 and the M1A both seem to love 168 grain bullets, SMKs especially. They are so definitely accurate that i am using Nosler 168 Ballistic Tips for hunting loads.
I am using WLR primers and 45.5 grains of IMR 4895 in .30-06 and 39 grains in the .308 and they are very accurate.

[M14man]

Originally Posted by cat1870

After each sizing I then check the inside of the case with a paper clip looking for any signs for case seperation. So far, after 6 firings, I haven't encountered any signs of what-so-ever. Cat

Originally Posted by cat1870

After firing these 16 rounds with the above load I found that after the 7th firing, 4 of the 16 did have head seperation simptoms. That's 25%. That's the end of that group of brass...

Cat

Cat your earlier post you had reloaded 6 times and were doing the bent paperclip trick and found nothing amiss...but on the next firing you had 25% failure. My point: The paper clip trick really does not work that well.
You have to try to find a strong light beam and look for that shadow.

[jtuck]

Originally Posted by M14man

Cat your earlier post you had reloaded 6 times and were doing the bent paperclip trick and found nothing amiss...but on the next firing you had 25% failure. My point: The paper clip trick really does not work that well.
You have to try to find a strong light beam and look for that shadow.

Are you looking on the inside or outside of the case? (I assume the outside, but just wanted to make sure.)

[M14man]

The bent paperclip is to feel the inside. Same with the light. You really don't see anything happening on the outside.

[cat1870]

Originally Posted by jtuck

Are you looking on the inside or outside of the case? (I assume the outside, but just wanted to make sure.)

Inside.

Of 16 cases checked 4 failed as I could feel an indentation on the inside about 1/4 to 3/8" above the case head using the bent paper clip. I sectioned the case & indeed there was the beginning of a seperation. I junked all 16 cases.
Cat

[twtalbot]

Originally Posted by Aznative

Case separation is a function of how far the powder charge pushes the case's shoulder until it contacts the shoulder of the chamber. Keep in mind the base of the brass is being pushed against the bolt head. This action causes stretching. If you have a large chamber and are resizing the brass well under Sammi max case size, the brass has to stretch a lot. If the brass is being resized just a minimum amount to properly chamber, the brass doesn't strech hardly at all. If the first example the brass will seperate very quickly. In the last example, the brass will last a long time.

So, if I ever rebarrel a Garand, would it be a good idea to specify that it be finish chambered to SAAMI, rather than military dimensions?

[M14man]

Originally Posted by twtalbot

So, if I ever rebarrel a Garand, would it be a good idea to specify that it be finish chambered to SAAMI, rather than military dimensions?

It really does not matter, it is the amount you resize / reshrink the fired case. Ideally you would want to resize it just enough so it chambers reliably rather than resize it down to minimum headspace. Problem is some people have 3-4 Garands and Springfields so the ammo has to be resized enough so it will chamber in all. With all that headache and fuss you may get 2-3 more reloadings out of the case. I luckily have alot of brass, so I usually resize them to minimum and get 3 reloadings from them before I cast them away as too chancy to use. If you reload the same cases often, it is very, very wise to have a ruptured case extractor in the butt stock, or in your range tool case. Sooner or later you will have a case head separation. I have had a score of them over the years, and the extractor is a necessity.