slamfire and blown out reciever

sandhillbilly · 01-13-2003, 07:57 AM

I have a S/A M1 Garand, that was made in 1944.
Three different times in the last year it has fired twice when I pulled the trigger once. Yesterday it did it again but this time the bolt was probably 1/4 inch from being closed. It threw the bolt back so hard that it blew out the backside of my reciever. Everything behind the serial numbers is gone. The piece bounced off my forehead and disappeared.
I have read that a slam fire can only happen if the firing pin breaks, dirt under the primer or poorly seated primers. I do not believe it was dirt or poorly seated primers.
Does anybody have any suggestions on how this happened?
I haven't taken my baby to the doctor yet but I think she is dead.

Sandhillbilly

Big Dog · 01-13-2003, 11:17 AM

Oh man! The Big Guy upstairs must love you!
Did you have a gunsmith check it out after the first couple problems?
Was this hand loaded ammo, or GI surplus?

whirlwind · 01-13-2003, 11:24 AM

may have been a worn sear?

Manitoba · 01-13-2003, 11:55 AM

Oh Man! You've just lived through everybody's nightmare.

As my Dad used to say to me "at least it didn't hit anything important"! LOL. No dent?

Got pics? Of the rifle, not the forehead. Or the forehead.

Seems to me there must be more to why it blew out the back of the receiver. How could you tell if it slam fired before lockup? Possibly the bolt wasn't locking up?

sandhillbilly · 01-13-2003, 12:36 PM

I believe it fired before lockup. I found the brass and the neck on it was about 1/16 inch long but none of the brass was missing. It looks like a long shell with a little tiny neck. So I believe it fired before it was completely in the chamber.
This Garand is a 308 with a LMR barrel dated 6 month 1953. I was told it was a 308 barrel not a 30.06 conversion.
Yes I was shooting reloads. New federal brass
with Federal primers, 42 grains of 2460 with a 155 grain A max Hornaday bullet.With a OAL of 2.78 inches.
But I did shoot some army surplus in it a while back. It was Hertinburger and seemed alittle hot,so I got rid of it.
I will try to post a picture in the next 24 hours.
Thanks
Sandhillbilly

Stock Doc · 01-13-2003, 04:36 PM

I hate to even ask but was it properly headspaced? Also I have heard of this happening wiht mistaken powder use. A fella talked about it on a page onece and by the time everyone discussed it he realized he should not have used the powder he was using and kicked himself. Happy to hear you didn't get hurt and I dont reload for this simple reason with the Garand being so sensitive as I am worried I will do something when my mind is roaming and mess up. Rick B

Manitoba · 01-13-2003, 05:53 PM

I was thinking it might be interesting to see if '06 brass fits now? In the event the barrel was originally a 30-06 and decided it wanted to be again.

jerry · 01-13-2003, 07:40 PM

The Navy modified some to .308. With not much success.

sandhillbilly · 01-13-2003, 09:00 PM

Here are some pics. of my garand and two casings. One normal and the one that blew back the bolt.
thanks sandhillbilly

jerry · 01-13-2003, 09:04 PM

nice knife

JackT · 01-13-2003, 09:33 PM

Did the first round fire funny? Did you have a bullet stuck in the barrell, then a second roundfire? That sure is alot of pressure on the bolt back on the receiver. Just a guess.

sandhillbilly · 01-13-2003, 09:50 PM

Hello Jack. Nothing in the barrel. Second round went off a fraction of a second after the first. Barely able to distinguish 2 shots.
Sandhillbilly

whirlwind · 01-13-2003, 10:02 PM

my memory fails me....the garands that the navy modified to 308.....wasnt the problem that the bushings they used kept being pulled out by the round as it was ejected?

PAPA G · 01-13-2003, 10:02 PM

but judging from the blown out shoulder, i'd say ignition occured before the bolt reached battery. some ONE was looking out for you Bud!!!

David N · 01-14-2003, 01:36 PM

Umm, It appears to me that you are showing two different kinds of casings. Looks like a 30.06 on the right and a 308 on the left. Am I missing something?

sandhillbilly · 01-14-2003, 06:03 PM

Yes Dave.
They are both 308 brass. One is normal the other was not completely chambered when it fired. So the neck expanded to the casing size.
Thanks Sandhillbilly

DANA · 01-14-2003, 06:24 PM

DID YOU TRY A 06 CASING TO SEE IF IT NOW FITS?

DANA

sandhillbilly · 01-14-2003, 10:48 PM

Dana
just tried a 06 round and it did not fit.
thanks sandhillbilly

jimb2 · 01-15-2003, 12:18 PM

What I don't understand is why the case didn't rupture. I would expect the case to split wide open if not be blown into a hundred pieces. Does the expanded case fully chamber??? Something is definately squirrely about this.

Manitoba · 01-15-2003, 05:40 PM

I'll second jimb2's thoughts. Enough force to blow out the back of the receiver, but the case remains intact? That's some tough brass. Except it's not, because the neck portion deformed to what looks like 30-06 dimension. Weird.

The good weird is that sandhillbilly is alive to tell the tale. No pictures of the forehead available? I'm surprised it was the forehead and not the cheek or eye?

01-13-2003, 07:57 AM	#1
sandhillbilly Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NEBRASKA SANDHILLS. EAST OF CHERRY COUNTY Posts: 18	slamfire and blown out reciever I have a S/A M1 Garand, that was made in 1944. Three different times in the last year it has fired twice when I pulled the trigger once. Yesterday it did it again but this time the bolt was probably 1/4 inch from being closed. It threw the bolt back so hard that it blew out the backside of my reciever. Everything behind the serial numbers is gone. The piece bounced off my forehead and disappeared. I have read that a slam fire can only happen if the firing pin breaks, dirt under the primer or poorly seated primers. I do not believe it was dirt or poorly seated primers. Does anybody have any suggestions on how this happened? I haven't taken my baby to the doctor yet but I think she is dead. Sandhillbilly

01-13-2003, 11:17 AM	#2
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,205	Oh man! The Big Guy upstairs must love you! Did you have a gunsmith check it out after the first couple problems? Was this hand loaded ammo, or GI surplus? __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

01-13-2003, 04:36 PM	#6
Stock Doc Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Middle Ohio I see water Posts: 838	I hate to even ask but was it properly headspaced? Also I have heard of this happening wiht mistaken powder use. A fella talked about it on a page onece and by the time everyone discussed it he realized he should not have used the powder he was using and kicked himself. Happy to hear you didn't get hurt and I dont reload for this simple reason with the Garand being so sensitive as I am worried I will do something when my mind is roaming and mess up. Rick B __________________ If I cant fix it,, It must REALLY be broken!

01-13-2003, 07:40 PM	#8
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,870 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	The Navy modified some to .308. With not much success. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

01-13-2003, 09:04 PM	#10
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,870 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	nice knife __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

01-13-2003, 11:24 AM	#3
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,737 Images: 1	may have been a worn sear?

01-13-2003, 11:55 AM	#4
Manitoba Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 19	Oh Man! You've just lived through everybody's nightmare. As my Dad used to say to me "at least it didn't hit anything important"! LOL. No dent? Got pics? Of the rifle, not the forehead. Or the forehead. Seems to me there must be more to why it blew out the back of the receiver. How could you tell if it slam fired before lockup? Possibly the bolt wasn't locking up?

01-13-2003, 12:36 PM	#5
sandhillbilly Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NEBRASKA SANDHILLS. EAST OF CHERRY COUNTY Posts: 18	I believe it fired before lockup. I found the brass and the neck on it was about 1/16 inch long but none of the brass was missing. It looks like a long shell with a little tiny neck. So I believe it fired before it was completely in the chamber. This Garand is a 308 with a LMR barrel dated 6 month 1953. I was told it was a 308 barrel not a 30.06 conversion. Yes I was shooting reloads. New federal brass with Federal primers, 42 grains of 2460 with a 155 grain A max Hornaday bullet.With a OAL of 2.78 inches. But I did shoot some army surplus in it a while back. It was Hertinburger and seemed alittle hot,so I got rid of it. I will try to post a picture in the next 24 hours. Thanks Sandhillbilly

01-13-2003, 05:53 PM	#7
Manitoba Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 19	I was thinking it might be interesting to see if '06 brass fits now? In the event the barrel was originally a 30-06 and decided it wanted to be again.

01-13-2003, 09:33 PM	#11
JackT Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 58	Did the first round fire funny? Did you have a bullet stuck in the barrell, then a second roundfire? That sure is alot of pressure on the bolt back on the receiver. Just a guess. __________________ JackT "NUTS!!"

01-13-2003, 09:50 PM	#12
sandhillbilly Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NEBRASKA SANDHILLS. EAST OF CHERRY COUNTY Posts: 18	Hello Jack. Nothing in the barrel. Second round went off a fraction of a second after the first. Barely able to distinguish 2 shots. Sandhillbilly

01-13-2003, 10:02 PM	#13
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,737 Images: 1	my memory fails me....the garands that the navy modified to 308.....wasnt the problem that the bushings they used kept being pulled out by the round as it was ejected?

01-13-2003, 10:02 PM	#14
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	I'M NO EXPERT........ but judging from the blown out shoulder, i'd say ignition occured before the bolt reached battery. some ONE was looking out for you Bud!!!

01-14-2003, 01:36 PM	#15
David N Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 198	Umm, It appears to me that you are showing two different kinds of casings. Looks like a 30.06 on the right and a 308 on the left. Am I missing something? __________________ -- In Educatio Veritas est, In Veritas Lux est (In knowledge is truth, in truth is light)

01-14-2003, 06:03 PM	#16
sandhillbilly Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NEBRASKA SANDHILLS. EAST OF CHERRY COUNTY Posts: 18	Yes Dave. They are both 308 brass. One is normal the other was not completely chambered when it fired. So the neck expanded to the casing size. Thanks Sandhillbilly

01-14-2003, 06:24 PM	#17
DANA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WAITSFIELD VERMONT Posts: 1,595	FIT? DID YOU TRY A 06 CASING TO SEE IF IT NOW FITS? DANA

01-14-2003, 10:48 PM	#18
sandhillbilly Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NEBRASKA SANDHILLS. EAST OF CHERRY COUNTY Posts: 18	Dana just tried a 06 round and it did not fit. thanks sandhillbilly

01-15-2003, 12:18 PM	#19
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	What I don't understand is why the case didn't rupture. I would expect the case to split wide open if not be blown into a hundred pieces. Does the expanded case fully chamber??? Something is definately squirrely about this.

01-15-2003, 05:40 PM	#20
Manitoba Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 19	I'll second jimb2's thoughts. Enough force to blow out the back of the receiver, but the case remains intact? That's some tough brass. Except it's not, because the neck portion deformed to what looks like 30-06 dimension. Weird. The good weird is that sandhillbilly is alive to tell the tale. No pictures of the forehead available? I'm surprised it was the forehead and not the cheek or eye?