Which armory for a new M1A: Fulton or Springfield ?

3006FMJ · 08-16-2004, 09:56 AM

I'm going to be buying a new M1A, and I heard a casual comment from one
person that Springfield Armory does not put out as good a product as
Fulton Armory. It was not his own personal experience, but rather from
another shooter. He said that Fulton puts out a slightly better product.
More to the point, he said that Springfield imports a number of parts from
foreign shores but that Fulton does not.

Not even sure if there was an issue in the difference of quality, or was he
just pointing out an "imported vs. domestic" issue.

Can any of you offer your insight on this issue? Thanks.

-Steve

P.S. The specific M1A model I had my sights on (at Springfield) is at:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...A9102Large.jpg

PAPA G · 08-16-2004, 10:23 AM

welp, either one is good, i have a Springfield Armory Inc, from the middle "70's" bought it new, and works everytime.

PAPA G · 08-20-2004, 11:31 AM

i should have mentioned, my m1a is their standard grade. all GI parts 'cept of course the receiver.

3006FMJ · 08-21-2004, 01:30 AM

Thanks to both PAPA G and Old Navy for your input.
I called the gun dealer today wanting to talk to the gentleman
who is seeking out the model of interest. He was not there
but the guy on the phone had "zero knowledge of problems
with M1As ordered through them" (of course). His relay to
me was he has sold "many many SA M1As with no complaints."
Of course, it's not the gun dealer that would have dealt with
the complaints, anyways.
So, should I just go with it???

Gyrene · 08-23-2004, 02:16 AM

My recommendation is, as long as the parts are USGI (except the receiver of course), buy the Springfield, and you will probably be happy. I have seen Springfield M1A's in various configurations come to our range, and the only one that I have not seen a failure with, is the Super Match (for the price, they had better not fail). A friend said recently that his latest Super Match had to be returned to Springfield, because of failures due to non-GI parts, so the problem may be creeping into the Super Match, too! Except for the Super Match, you will need to do some match conditioning to be competitive in high power competition.

Most of the failures are of non-GI parts, and as long as Springfield replaces the failed parts with non-GI parts they always fail again. This has become a routine, at least of the ones I have seen at our range.

Fulton prepared M1A/M14 Semi-autos are a bit expensive, and while they are more accurate than the Springfield (before match conditioning the Springfield), they generally have not had the failures (they use USGI parts). I have only seen one at our range in the past 3 years, and the guy said he had to wait over a year for it.

Smith Enterprises in Phoenix, AZ also makes M1A/M14 Semi-autos, and I have seen several of them. I have never heard of a failure on one, but they are match conditioned rifles and a little bit expensive as compared to Springfield. They would be my recommendation if you are going to shoot in high power competition.

Other companies make them, using various receivers, some are OK and some are a pain in the backside. For a blaster, get a Chinese Norinco or Poly Tech. If you want to have a match conditioned Chinese M14, I know Smith Enterprises, and Clint Fowler (used to anyhow), and I think Fulton Armory does this too, verify the heat treat, put in a USGI bolt, and get you ready for competition, for a reasonable fee.

The Chinese M14's were made with the same M14 forging dies as the USGI M14's were made with, and most of the parts except for the rear sight internal parts, and the gas cylinder parts, are totally interchangeable with the USGI (they used metric threads inside the rear sight, and for the gas cylinder threads on the barrel). The whole rear sight can be changed to USGI, by just putting one on the rifle. Their magazines were made with the same tooling, and I have to look at them for the logo (the Chinese ones don't have a logo), to tell whether I am using a USGI magazine or a Chinese magazine.

The US Government sold the machining tools and forging dies to Taiwan, because they were planning to stay with the M14, not switch to the M16. They too caved in and began buying the, "Varmit Rifle", M16 for their main Taiwan Army rifle. Taiwan then asked for and received permission from the US Government to sell all of the tooling and forging dies to Communist China.

Communist China wanted to support the Hukbalahap (forerunner to the Communist NPA (New Peoples Army), in an insurrection to overthrow President Ferdinand Marcos in the Pilippines, and the M14 was a perfect rifle, because the HUK could get ammo and spare parts from raiding the Pilippine Army bases, and the Chinese M14 and the USGI M14 sound exactly the same when firing close up or at a distance, so the noise wouldn't give them away, like an AK-47 or AKM would do. The CIA got wind of this, and in one of their RARE great ideas, they convinced Marcos to recognize China (and forget Taiwan) as the only Chinese Government, to prevent a Chinese supported insurrection. Marcos recognized China, the HUK became the NPA, and the insurrection was nipped in the bud.

The Chinese use a different, but at least as good, steel for the receiver (not 8620), and have generally used soft bolts (which don't work very long, before needing replacement). The receivers can be reheat treated to USGI spec (some are already there), but the rifle needs a US barrel (which just screws right in), and a USGI bolt, to have it ready to shoot seriously, for a long time.

`

Ricky · 09-06-2004, 02:57 PM

Hi , maybe it is a stupid question, how can i judge if some parts of my M1A standard from SA genesco, that i recently bought are originall G1 parts ? BR riccardo

Gyrene · 09-15-2004, 10:16 AM

You need some books, or a local aquaintance who is an armorer, both is better. Search for North Cape Publications. I believe their book on M14 and M1A's is about $19.95 plus postage, here in the US. It gives a pretty good rundown on the various rifles and components. Search on Scott Duff. I am not sure if Scott Duff has one, but if so it should be very good for identifying parts, as he usually has excellent information for collectors. Kuenhausen publications are very good, but a little more expensive, and well done.

08-16-2004, 09:56 AM	#1
3006FMJ Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 9	Which armory for a new M1A: Fulton or Springfield ? I'm going to be buying a new M1A, and I heard a casual comment from one person that Springfield Armory does not put out as good a product as Fulton Armory. It was not his own personal experience, but rather from another shooter. He said that Fulton puts out a slightly better product. More to the point, he said that Springfield imports a number of parts from foreign shores but that Fulton does not. Not even sure if there was an issue in the difference of quality, or was he just pointing out an "imported vs. domestic" issue. Can any of you offer your insight on this issue? Thanks. -Steve P.S. The specific M1A model I had my sights on (at Springfield) is at: http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...A9102Large.jpg

08-23-2004, 02:16 AM	#5
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	My recommendation is, as long as the parts are USGI (except the receiver of course), buy the Springfield, and you will probably be happy. I have seen Springfield M1A's in various configurations come to our range, and the only one that I have not seen a failure with, is the Super Match (for the price, they had better not fail). A friend said recently that his latest Super Match had to be returned to Springfield, because of failures due to non-GI parts, so the problem may be creeping into the Super Match, too! Except for the Super Match, you will need to do some match conditioning to be competitive in high power competition. Most of the failures are of non-GI parts, and as long as Springfield replaces the failed parts with non-GI parts they always fail again. This has become a routine, at least of the ones I have seen at our range. Fulton prepared M1A/M14 Semi-autos are a bit expensive, and while they are more accurate than the Springfield (before match conditioning the Springfield), they generally have not had the failures (they use USGI parts). I have only seen one at our range in the past 3 years, and the guy said he had to wait over a year for it. Smith Enterprises in Phoenix, AZ also makes M1A/M14 Semi-autos, and I have seen several of them. I have never heard of a failure on one, but they are match conditioned rifles and a little bit expensive as compared to Springfield. They would be my recommendation if you are going to shoot in high power competition. Other companies make them, using various receivers, some are OK and some are a pain in the backside. For a blaster, get a Chinese Norinco or Poly Tech. If you want to have a match conditioned Chinese M14, I know Smith Enterprises, and Clint Fowler (used to anyhow), and I think Fulton Armory does this too, verify the heat treat, put in a USGI bolt, and get you ready for competition, for a reasonable fee. The Chinese M14's were made with the same M14 forging dies as the USGI M14's were made with, and most of the parts except for the rear sight internal parts, and the gas cylinder parts, are totally interchangeable with the USGI (they used metric threads inside the rear sight, and for the gas cylinder threads on the barrel). The whole rear sight can be changed to USGI, by just putting one on the rifle. Their magazines were made with the same tooling, and I have to look at them for the logo (the Chinese ones don't have a logo), to tell whether I am using a USGI magazine or a Chinese magazine. The US Government sold the machining tools and forging dies to Taiwan, because they were planning to stay with the M14, not switch to the M16. They too caved in and began buying the, "Varmit Rifle", M16 for their main Taiwan Army rifle. Taiwan then asked for and received permission from the US Government to sell all of the tooling and forging dies to Communist China. Communist China wanted to support the Hukbalahap (forerunner to the Communist NPA (New Peoples Army), in an insurrection to overthrow President Ferdinand Marcos in the Pilippines, and the M14 was a perfect rifle, because the HUK could get ammo and spare parts from raiding the Pilippine Army bases, and the Chinese M14 and the USGI M14 sound exactly the same when firing close up or at a distance, so the noise wouldn't give them away, like an AK-47 or AKM would do. The CIA got wind of this, and in one of their RARE great ideas, they convinced Marcos to recognize China (and forget Taiwan) as the only Chinese Government, to prevent a Chinese supported insurrection. Marcos recognized China, the HUK became the NPA, and the insurrection was nipped in the bud. The Chinese use a different, but at least as good, steel for the receiver (not 8620), and have generally used soft bolts (which don't work very long, before needing replacement). The receivers can be reheat treated to USGI spec (some are already there), but the rifle needs a US barrel (which just screws right in), and a USGI bolt, to have it ready to shoot seriously, for a long time. ` Last edited by Gyrene; 08-23-2004 at 02:30 AM.

09-06-2004, 02:57 PM	#6
Ricky Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 24	USGI parts Hi , maybe it is a stupid question, how can i judge if some parts of my M1A standard from SA genesco, that i recently bought are originall G1 parts ? BR riccardo

08-16-2004, 10:23 AM	#2
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 11	welp, either one is good, i have a Springfield Armory Inc, from the middle "70's" bought it new, and works everytime.

08-20-2004, 11:31 AM	#3
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 11	i should have mentioned, my m1a is their standard grade. all GI parts 'cept of course the receiver.

08-21-2004, 01:30 AM	#4
3006FMJ Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 9	Thanks to both PAPA G and Old Navy for your input. I called the gun dealer today wanting to talk to the gentleman who is seeking out the model of interest. He was not there but the guy on the phone had "zero knowledge of problems with M1As ordered through them" (of course). His relay to me was he has sold "many many SA M1As with no complaints." Of course, it's not the gun dealer that would have dealt with the complaints, anyways. So, should I just go with it???

09-15-2004, 10:16 AM	#7
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	You need some books, or a local aquaintance who is an armorer, both is better. Search for North Cape Publications. I believe their book on M14 and M1A's is about $19.95 plus postage, here in the US. It gives a pretty good rundown on the various rifles and components. Search on Scott Duff. I am not sure if Scott Duff has one, but if so it should be very good for identifying parts, as he usually has excellent information for collectors. Kuenhausen publications are very good, but a little more expensive, and well done.