02-07-2008, 12:22 PM
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| Super Moderator   |  Anatomy of a Gun Failure.... Here is a detailed report you may or may not have seen concerning an M1A that blew apart. An interesting Scientific analysis of what happened... http:///www.thegunzone.com:80/m1akb/762r.html Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!  Last edited by Mooseman684; 02-08-2008 at 10:52 AM. |
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02-07-2008, 01:23 PM
| #2 |
| Senior Member  | Daaaaaang...that had to hurt and scare the crap out of whoever was shooting it...
__________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected. |
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02-07-2008, 03:53 PM
| #5 | |
| Senior Member  | Quote:
Last edited by mym1a; 02-07-2008 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost | |
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02-08-2008, 09:16 AM
| #7 |
| Senior Member  | That's been around for some time. Looks like a double charge on a reload to me, I've seen it before. They "claim" it was commercial ammo. It's the only m14 I have seen fail like that.
__________________ The difference between a hot dog and a weenie is a fine line..... |
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02-08-2008, 10:57 AM
| #8 |
| Super Moderator | I fixed the link...Sorry about that. That Barrel ruptured due to bad steel that was not properly hardened . This is also what can happen to a gun that has been through a fire and rebuilt by someone who didnt know what they were doing...the heat will change the steel's grain. Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! |
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02-08-2008, 11:01 AM
| #9 |
| Senior Member  | Mooseman makes a very valid point any firearm or for that matter any item made from steel that is designed to contain or control extreme pressures which goes through a fire should without fail be rockwell hardness tested to be sure it doesn't require heat treating before rebuilding!
__________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!" |
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02-12-2008, 12:25 AM
| #10 |
| Banned | I am confused, I would not think that even a triple loaded bullet could cause any damage at all, unless there was an obstruction to prevent the gases from escaping. I was under the impression that Energy follows the path of the least amount of resistance, which is forward and out of the barrel and not building up to a point it splits metal parts, when it could have gone out of the front. I do believe if the shell was too small and did not fit correctly in the chamber, then it would split, but splitting the barrel and the shell and breaking heavy metal parts at their thickest areas, is just to hard for me to believe. The old Damascus would split but it was a wrapped barrel and had weaknesses from the pressures that would build up. That gun looks like a lot bigger charge than what could fit in that shell hit it. I am not a Physics expert, but there is a lot of damage for one little 7.62 to have created. I was on the range once and the bolt of a M14 took off and went between the helmet and the shooters head, only scratched him and the barrel was fine and so wasn't most of the rifle, except for a broken piece in the top rear. just my thought and by no means Scientifically induced. Last edited by Wingwiper; 02-12-2008 at 12:28 AM. |
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02-12-2008, 12:43 AM
| #11 |
| Super Moderator | You have Pressure that builds 360 degrees in the chamber, and pressure that builds rearward when the bullet follows the Bore which is the least path of resistance...The Steel Barrel ruptured from the pressure because it was not properly Hardened resulting in coarse grained steel...It really shows the power of a small Cartridge Controlled Explosion that exceeded what the steel was capable of...small cracks, followed by complete failure... Respect the power !!! Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! |
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02-12-2008, 12:48 AM
| #12 |
| Senior Member  | I bet whom ever was using it at the time that happened, had to go home and change their draws. Had it been me, I'd to, would have had to go home and change my draws also.
__________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6! Last edited by GlockMeister; 02-12-2008 at 12:53 AM. |
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02-12-2008, 10:08 AM
| #13 | |
| Banned | Quote:
Mooseman I am aware how pressure works and the M1a or M14 produces 55,000 pounds of Chamber pressure. The time it takes for that Projectile to clear the muzzle is extremely fast and once it clears the pressure is released from the front. I still say there is more to the story than what the pictures are revealing and I am having a hard time being convinced it was all from an overloaded cartridge. I don't think you could put enough poweder in that cartridge to create that kinda of spread out damage. I still will offer my opinion as an obstruction within the barrel and not just and over loaded cartridge. I am NOT a Physics expert but I have double loaded my Muzzle loader on a few occasions and even though it is a slower burning powder, ZERO DAMAGE, not even a very noticeable increase to the kick. Just hard to beleive | |
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02-12-2008, 10:50 AM
| #14 |
| Super Moderator | Did you READ the story and analysis ??? NOWHERE does it mention an Overloaded Cartridge...It is all About steel not being heat treated properly to be strong and elastic...Failing from useage. Black powder explodes instantly and cannot generate pressures of Modern powder...Load your muzzle loader with an IMR Powder and watch it Blow up in your face. You must not be a reloader, since we know that even a couple extra grains of powder could be catastrophic when dealing with Smokeless powders, and the pressures generated...
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! Last edited by Mooseman684; 02-12-2008 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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02-12-2008, 11:10 AM
| #15 |
| Senior Member  | Moose I know where your coming from here, I had an uncle that had an original 1851 colt and he took the powder out of a shotgun shell and used it and could not figure out why it blew on him(This was like 50 yrs ago) The metal has to be the right hardness and elasticity for the pressure generated. The old Rem. 1903-a3 rifles had some blow because the got the recievers too hot when made on some and changed the metalurgy. Some were fine others blew up. You can blow up a rifle by using pistol powder in it, there are many ways to get in trouble we must use our head to be safe. |
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02-12-2008, 11:15 AM
| #16 | |
| Banned | Quote:
Someone on jhere thought it was possibly a double loaded cartridge. I understand what you say about steel not being treated properly., but the BARREl and the Cartridge and the RECIEVER split in HALF???? That is a lot of steel from more than one section of the rifle being at fault. I am not trying to argue with anyone, I just find it hard to beleive that one 7.62 mm cartridge could do that. 3 to 5000 rounds had been fired through it and it was a field rifle and had a medium barel and not even the LIGHTER barrel. I am sorry Moose, there seems to be more to the story than is being told. Look at the photos on the side of the article, that is a lot of damage. Yet! the bolt itself seems unscathe as compared tot he reciever it was in. I dunno, just hard for me to believe. I am not a reloader but have Explosive background, I am not an engineer and have no background in that area. It just seems to be alot of damage, too much damage. ":Chris Comer comments: "In a way, I suppose I'm relieved that it was a structural failure and not the goofy round theory. However, I'm a bit concerned that Dr. Bruchey deemed the rifle 'used and abused.' Used, certainly (3-5K rounds), and crawled through the brush. A field rifle, not a firing line queen. But, I was of the opinion that I cleaned and lubed it adequately. The rifle - when new - was new. It was never a 'junker,' and, even though the bedding was going, was accurate up to the end." 2.- In response to the most frequently posed inquiry, Clint McKee says: "The barrel was a commercial medium weight contour barrel, not a GI barrel, and had no markings at all. So unless Chris knows who made it, it's not possible to know." And shooter Comer addressed that back in January. The full answer, sad to say, is probably for all time buried with Jimmy Hoffa somewhere on the grassy knoll." Last edited by Wingwiper; 02-12-2008 at 11:23 AM. | |
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02-12-2008, 08:16 PM
| #17 |
| Senior Member | Absolutely fascinating! A lot of technical work went into the analysis. The finding that the cracking was not new but had been occurring for a long time because of microscopic observation of fouling residue indicates that the problem existed from day 1 and just grew as the arm was fired. It should give people second thoughts about after market barrels made by other than technically qualified manufacturers. |
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02-12-2008, 10:25 PM
| #18 |
| Mr. Fixit  | Wingwiper, for an easy representation of what happened here, go to the hardware store and buy two cheap pieces of thin glass and a glass cutter. Wearing safety glasses and protective clothing, try bending one piece of glass until it breaks, you'll be surprised how much it flexes. This is representative of a good piece of steel. Now take the other piece and score it with the glass cutter and try the same thing-it will usually snap along the score line almost immediately. this is what happened in the barrel, the cracks gradually grew under the repeated swell\contract cycle of firing until one "snapped".
__________________ Don't be messin' with my gun! |
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02-12-2008, 10:37 PM
| #19 | |
| Banned | Quote:
What I can't buy and am having difficulty with is the reciever as well, it was original and it broke clean in half. So not only did the barrel split and allow gases to escape but the reciever in the opposite direction was broken in half. So it wasn't just a after market barrel, but an original built to spec reciever. That is a tremendous amount of pressure in both directions and that is where I am a bit confused. Even after the barrel is expanding and opening up, the bolt went backwards (and didn't break) with enough force to break the entire reciever in half as well. | |
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02-21-2008, 03:41 PM
| #20 |
| Senior Member  | Hopefully they get their steel from a different place now. Interesting how it can pass a rockwell test but because the metal was held too hot too long it made it easier to crack. I bet if it would have cracked at the muzzle and not at the thread he could have saved the receiver. Bad QC sucks.
__________________  Blow you up.
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