.308 and 7.62x51 compatible?

thumperpaul · 07-23-2008, 04:41 PM

Hi all
I have heard people arguing that these rounds are not interchangeable, but I have also heard the opposite; even Wikepedia says that..

"While similar in appearance, the military 7.62x51 NATO cartridge is not identical to the commercial .308 Winchester. However, their interchange is not listed as unsafe in either combination.[3"
What is everyone's take on this? I am awaiting arrival of my new Norinco 350 (M14 clone) and I have a lot of .308 rounds to run through it. If it is unadvisable to shoot these, would lowering the powder load make it safer? I haven't seen much 7.62 NATO out here.....

cremley · 07-23-2008, 04:59 PM

I am not to sure but I would put this question under the ammo and hand loading section. you will get a lot more responses.

Missouri Sniper · 07-23-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumperpaul

Hi all
I have heard people arguing that these rounds are not interchangeable, but I have also heard the opposite; even Wikepedia says that..

"While similar in appearance, the military 7.62x51 NATO cartridge is not identical to the commercial .308 Winchester. However, their interchange is not listed as unsafe in either combination.[3"
What is everyone's take on this? I am awaiting arrival of my new Norinco 350 (M14 clone) and I have a lot of .308 rounds to run through it. If it is unadvisable to shoot these, would lowering the powder load make it safer? I haven't seen much 7.62 NATO out here.....

I had a ak type rifle in 7.62x51 and I shot both 7.62x51 and 308 Winchester no problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big Dog · 07-23-2008, 05:23 PM

There is a slight difference in the bullet seating, I believe. In general, the primary difference is that commercial .308 Win. has a SAAMI spec of higher pressure than the military 7.62X51 - this doesn't mean that ALL .308 has higher pressures - it's maximum allowable pressure can be higher, depending on the load.
So.... the general rule is that a rifle chambered for .308 can take 7.62X51, but the reverse may not be true.
For instance, a hunting rifle designed for .308 can hande the NATO load perfectly well - it may not necessarily like it, accuracywise.

BUT.... an old M1916 Spanish Mauser chambered for 7.62X51 should NOT be used with .308 Win.

However, some folks have done it . . . a lot.

thumperpaul · 07-23-2008, 06:44 PM

Big Dog, I have done that exact thing with my 1912 Chilean Mauser. (Originally 7mm, bored out to 7.62 NATO.) The only problem is that the bore of my Mauser is so worn, the rounds (7.62 as well as .308) I reloaded wouldn't chamber anymore. (they were too "wide", even after resizing.) I think my Mauser is a Wallhanger for my( and others)

own safety....

wunhunglo · 07-24-2008, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumperpaul

Big Dog, I have done that exact thing with my 1912 Chilean Mauser. (Originally 7mm, bored out to 7.62 NATO.) The only problem is that the bore of my Mauser is so worn, the rounds (7.62 as well as .308) I reloaded wouldn't chamber anymore. (they were too "wide", even after resizing.) I think my Mauser is a Wallhanger for my( and others)

own safety....

?? Too wide after resizing????????? ...eh? You sure they weren't too long? Or is it time to invest in a new resizing die? Is your die set correctly? I assume you don't have part of a separated case stuck in the chamber? I also assume(ass-u-me) that factory rounds still fit the chamber??

I also take it when you say "rebored to 7.62nato", you actually mean rebarreled to 7.62 nato. Reboring to another rifled calibre is virtually unheard of.

thumperpaul · 07-24-2008, 04:59 PM

Hi wunhunglo,
Yeah the casings were wider after resizing...wouldn't chamber at all. If I hold a reload next to a factory made, I can see that it is just a smidge "fatter". (The casings are the same length.) The dies appear to be ok, my brother in law used them for his old .308 with no problems.
I had the same problem with my #4 MK1* Enfield; I used some "once fired" Greek surplus brass, and out of 40 rounds, 6 wouldn't chamber properly. (couldn't close the bolt).
I am assuming that my Mauser was fired lots with the bore fouled (it's in sad shape), and the resulting back pressure expanded the chamber slightly. That's my guess anyways

.
Thanks for the "rebarrelling" clarification!

wunhunglo · 07-24-2008, 06:57 PM

Sounds strange to me. The die should take the case back to within factory specs.

Has the base of the cartridge not been resized fully and "belted"?
Has the shoulder been set back slightly & "ridged"?

Only time, I've had problems with reloads not chambering in any of my rifles was when there was something wrong with the reload; either not fully resized or with the shoulders pushed back when seating the bullet; either case fixed by running it very carefully through the sizing die again and also sometimes chamfering the inside of the case mouth a little after resizing to make bullet insertion easier.
If this is not the case, then maybe lash out the cash on a new die set.

cold queso · 07-25-2008, 10:06 AM

Funny, I've been experiencing the same thing with a CZ550 .308 and some Lake City 7.62 cases.

This was even after running them through a small base die and trimming to minimum length. Over 50% of the loads were very tight.

billcavazos · 08-11-2008, 07:57 PM

Most American and or European rifles can shoot both the nato and Winchester round. But the Norinco M14 is a piece of crap and your taking a big chance in shooting the higher pressure of the Winchester round.

milspecK · 08-22-2008, 10:59 AM

so if what you said about a 7.62x51 rifle not being interchangable with .308, would it be better, accuracy wise, to shoot "7.62x51" through an M14 than .308?

ibfestus · 08-22-2008, 04:07 PM

The Chinese M-14S I have seen are anything other than junk. Their receivers are dimensionally more correct than 90% of the other clones out there, and not only that, the chrome lined barrels are excellent. My M14S POLY will perform with any standard production rifle out there and will out shoot most of them.

Romey · 08-22-2008, 06:32 PM

there is .10 differance in head spacing, the big arguement is if this damages the rifle or not

07-23-2008, 04:41 PM	#1
thumperpaul Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: vancouver bc canada Posts: 135 Trader Rating: (0)	.308 and 7.62x51 compatible? Hi all I have heard people arguing that these rounds are not interchangeable, but I have also heard the opposite; even Wikepedia says that.. "While similar in appearance, the military 7.62x51 NATO cartridge is not identical to the commercial .308 Winchester. However, their interchange is not listed as unsafe in either combination.[3" What is everyone's take on this? I am awaiting arrival of my new Norinco 350 (M14 clone) and I have a lot of .308 rounds to run through it. If it is unadvisable to shoot these, would lowering the powder load make it safer? I haven't seen much 7.62 NATO out here.....

07-23-2008, 04:59 PM	#2
cremley Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Southern New Mexico Posts: 728 Trader Rating: (0)	I am not to sure but I would put this question under the ammo and hand loading section. you will get a lot more responses. __________________ There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who have guns and those who dig. You dig.

07-24-2008, 04:59 PM	#7
thumperpaul Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: vancouver bc canada Posts: 135 Trader Rating: (0)	Hi wunhunglo, Yeah the casings were wider after resizing...wouldn't chamber at all. If I hold a reload next to a factory made, I can see that it is just a smidge "fatter". (The casings are the same length.) The dies appear to be ok, my brother in law used them for his old .308 with no problems. I had the same problem with my #4 MK1* Enfield; I used some "once fired" Greek surplus brass, and out of 40 rounds, 6 wouldn't chamber properly. (couldn't close the bolt). I am assuming that my Mauser was fired lots with the bore fouled (it's in sad shape), and the resulting back pressure expanded the chamber slightly. That's my guess anyways. Thanks for the "rebarrelling" clarification!

08-22-2008, 06:32 PM	#13
Romey Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 447 Trader Rating: (0)	there is .10 differance in head spacing, the big arguement is if this damages the rifle or not __________________ Romey High Country Knives http://www.highcountryknives.com

07-23-2008, 05:23 PM	#4
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,071 Trader Rating: (0)	There is a slight difference in the bullet seating, I believe. In general, the primary difference is that commercial .308 Win. has a SAAMI spec of higher pressure than the military 7.62X51 - this doesn't mean that ALL .308 has higher pressures - it's maximum allowable pressure can be higher, depending on the load. So.... the general rule is that a rifle chambered for .308 can take 7.62X51, but the reverse may not be true. For instance, a hunting rifle designed for .308 can hande the NATO load perfectly well - it may not necessarily like it, accuracywise. BUT.... an old M1916 Spanish Mauser chambered for 7.62X51 should NOT be used with .308 Win. However, some folks have done it . . . a lot. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

07-23-2008, 06:44 PM	#5
thumperpaul Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: vancouver bc canada Posts: 135 Trader Rating: (0)	Big Dog, I have done that exact thing with my 1912 Chilean Mauser. (Originally 7mm, bored out to 7.62 NATO.) The only problem is that the bore of my Mauser is so worn, the rounds (7.62 as well as .308) I reloaded wouldn't chamber anymore. (they were too "wide", even after resizing.) I think my Mauser is a Wallhanger for my( and others) own safety....

07-24-2008, 06:57 PM	#8
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 1,373 Trader Rating: (0)	Sounds strange to me. The die should take the case back to within factory specs. Has the base of the cartridge not been resized fully and "belted"? Has the shoulder been set back slightly & "ridged"? Only time, I've had problems with reloads not chambering in any of my rifles was when there was something wrong with the reload; either not fully resized or with the shoulders pushed back when seating the bullet; either case fixed by running it very carefully through the sizing die again and also sometimes chamfering the inside of the case mouth a little after resizing to make bullet insertion easier. If this is not the case, then maybe lash out the cash on a new die set.

07-25-2008, 10:06 AM	#9
cold queso Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 89 Trader Rating: (0)	Funny, I've been experiencing the same thing with a CZ550 .308 and some Lake City 7.62 cases. This was even after running them through a small base die and trimming to minimum length. Over 50% of the loads were very tight.

08-11-2008, 07:57 PM	#10
billcavazos Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 25 Trader Rating: (0)	Most American and or European rifles can shoot both the nato and Winchester round. But the Norinco M14 is a piece of crap and your taking a big chance in shooting the higher pressure of the Winchester round.

08-22-2008, 10:59 AM	#11
milspecK Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7 Trader Rating: (0)	so if what you said about a 7.62x51 rifle not being interchangable with .308, would it be better, accuracy wise, to shoot "7.62x51" through an M14 than .308?

08-22-2008, 04:07 PM	#12
ibfestus Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 19 Trader Rating: (0)	The Chinese M-14S I have seen are anything other than junk. Their receivers are dimensionally more correct than 90% of the other clones out there, and not only that, the chrome lined barrels are excellent. My M14S POLY will perform with any standard production rifle out there and will out shoot most of them.