1911 problem, bent slide stop

Full MeTal Jack · 07-10-2008, 09:36 PM

A friend of mine, on my insistance, purchased a new complete Brazilian slide less barrel for his LLama 1911. I fit the slide to his action. The LLama barrel wouldn't fit in the new slide. Swapped the barrel with a Norinco barrel. Took it to range and it jammed and etc.
Pulled it apart. The Slide Stop was bent! What's up with that?
Looking a Midway's catalog there is different barrel link heights.
Midway also have different diameter barrel bushings.
Questions, 1, 2 , and 3
1.) If the slide release is bent, could the height of the barrel link cause that?
1a. how would one determine the proper barrel link hieght?
2.) Where do you measure the barrel for a proper barrel bushing diameter fit?
what should the clearence be in .000s for normal shooting?
3.) The Hammer was loose. Pulled main spring, seems OK.
To hold the hammer tight against the frame when in decocked position, is this a problem with the main spring or a configuration curve of the sear?
This is my first post in 1911 catagory, go easy on me.

Moss500Bantam · 07-10-2008, 10:21 PM

I don't think LLama parts interchange with common 1911 parts. I have a Kunhausen book somewhere around the house, would have to dig it up to answer rest of questions.

M14man · 07-10-2008, 10:25 PM

Though familiar with the 1911's, not so much with Llamas. There were alot of variances in Llama parts such that interchanging parts with GI types is not always possible. First a barrel must be able to lock into the slide. There are recesses in the slide and on the barrel just in front of the barrel hood. I am assuming the Norinco barrel was not being locked into the slide and thus the recoil bent the slide stop.This could be a link problem. When the link is up it pushes the barrel into the slide lock lugs.It is hard to tell without a personal inspection.You may be able to estimate barrel link length by placing the barrel in the slide, assembling and look thru the slide stop hole.The barrel should be locked and the link hole centered.Too long of a link may prevent you from opening the slide once a shell is chambered, too short of a link will not allow the barrel to come up enough to lock. The loose hammer is a result usually of the strut not being pushed far enough 'up'. It could me possibly a short strut, or a short mainspring. Was the hammer or mainspring housing switched? Note that the mainspring cap is what actually pushes against the strut. If it looks like it is far enough up, the culpret may be a wrong part. The mainspring cap has to have enough room to push the strut up.You can't necessarily swap parts between a 'GI' type and a Llama. Slight differences there. As to the bushing you want the slightest drag at the muzzle end of the barrel so the barrel does not wobble in the bushing. The bushing should be tight in the slide. In all, I am of the belief you may not be able to put a GI type slide on the LLama without extensive alterations. That is why the LLama barrel did not work in the Brazilian slide.Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but I think you can't do what you what to do. Not easily anyway.

Full MeTal Jack · 07-10-2008, 10:41 PM

Any info helps. The Llama barrel did not fit in Braz. slide but the Norino barrel fit good.
I'll have to see how the barrel link looks in
1.) upside down ?
2.) right side up?

I can measure barrel bushing and barrel where it lock up. How much clearance, .005"?

M14man · 07-10-2008, 10:50 PM

Right side up should do. Just make sure the barrel is locked up and peer thru the hole. Sometimes their may be a difference in the frame to slide differences where if a longer link was used where there would be lock up, other problems could arise like a spave between barrel and frame which would cause jams. I couldn't begin to give you dimensional clearances in inches. I have seen where some slides may not line up properly with the disconnector that sticks thru the receiver. This could result in the hammer falling at a time when the slide is not locked,. Not sure if this is an issue with the Llama/Brazilian slide. I would not have bitten into what you are trying to do. I would have talked my friend into a Rock Island of sorts. Barrel bushing should drag right at the muzzle. If that be .005, then OK. Close enough in that you don't see the barrel moving inside the bushing. The bushing should not wobble either in the slide.

Full MeTal Jack · 07-11-2008, 09:48 PM

OK, thanks M14, will get back to you later. Lots to do this weekend. Also heading out to lease to check, dewasp feeders and blind, set up new bow stand, cut grass, measure camp garage tarp.

M14man · 07-11-2008, 10:10 PM

Ya know, some hammers are loose when down and assembled without the slide on the receiver. Then when the slide is on, it moves the hammer just back far enough for the spring to give it tension. So it may not be as issue once the slide is on. If it has no tension with the slide on and hammer down, then there is an issue.

nathangdad · 07-12-2008, 06:58 AM

1911/1911A-1 gun. This misconception has caused other people
problems in the past.

That does not mean Llama is not a good gun. I have a friend who has owned and happily fired one for perhaps twenty years.

tonystewartfan · 07-19-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moss500Bantam

I don't think LLama parts interchange with common 1911 parts. I have a Kunhausen book somewhere around the house, would have to dig it up to answer rest of questions.

You're correct Moss500Bantam.

07-10-2008, 09:36 PM	#1
Full MeTal Jack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,427 Images: 1	1911 problem, bent slide stop A friend of mine, on my insistance, purchased a new complete Brazilian slide less barrel for his LLama 1911. I fit the slide to his action. The LLama barrel wouldn't fit in the new slide. Swapped the barrel with a Norinco barrel. Took it to range and it jammed and etc. Pulled it apart. The Slide Stop was bent! What's up with that? Looking a Midway's catalog there is different barrel link heights. Midway also have different diameter barrel bushings. Questions, 1, 2 , and 3 1.) If the slide release is bent, could the height of the barrel link cause that? 1a. how would one determine the proper barrel link hieght? 2.) Where do you measure the barrel for a proper barrel bushing diameter fit? what should the clearence be in .000s for normal shooting? 3.) The Hammer was loose. Pulled main spring, seems OK. To hold the hammer tight against the frame when in decocked position, is this a problem with the main spring or a configuration curve of the sear? This is my first post in 1911 catagory, go easy on me. __________________ [IMG]http://img287.echo.cx/img287/63/9130110x100a4vb.jpg

07-10-2008, 10:21 PM	#2
Moss500Bantam Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 257	I don't think LLama parts interchange with common 1911 parts. I have a Kunhausen book somewhere around the house, would have to dig it up to answer rest of questions. __________________ I don't know how a PC works. I just know how to use it. I know how a gun works, and how to use it.

07-10-2008, 10:41 PM	#4
Full MeTal Jack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,427 Images: 1	Any info helps. The Llama barrel did not fit in Braz. slide but the Norino barrel fit good. I'll have to see how the barrel link looks in 1.) upside down ? 2.) right side up? I can measure barrel bushing and barrel where it lock up. How much clearance, .005"? __________________ [IMG]http://img287.echo.cx/img287/63/9130110x100a4vb.jpg

07-10-2008, 10:50 PM	#5
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 437 Images: 10	Right side up should do. Just make sure the barrel is locked up and peer thru the hole. Sometimes their may be a difference in the frame to slide differences where if a longer link was used where there would be lock up, other problems could arise like a spave between barrel and frame which would cause jams. I couldn't begin to give you dimensional clearances in inches. I have seen where some slides may not line up properly with the disconnector that sticks thru the receiver. This could result in the hammer falling at a time when the slide is not locked,. Not sure if this is an issue with the Llama/Brazilian slide. I would not have bitten into what you are trying to do. I would have talked my friend into a Rock Island of sorts. Barrel bushing should drag right at the muzzle. If that be .005, then OK. Close enough in that you don't see the barrel moving inside the bushing. The bushing should not wobble either in the slide. Last edited by M14man; 07-10-2008 at 10:52 PM.

07-11-2008, 09:48 PM	#6
Full MeTal Jack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,427 Images: 1	OK, thanks M14, will get back to you later. Lots to do this weekend. Also heading out to lease to check, dewasp feeders and blind, set up new bow stand, cut grass, measure camp garage tarp. __________________ [IMG]http://img287.echo.cx/img287/63/9130110x100a4vb.jpg

07-10-2008, 10:25 PM	#3
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 437 Images: 10	Though familiar with the 1911's, not so much with Llamas. There were alot of variances in Llama parts such that interchanging parts with GI types is not always possible. First a barrel must be able to lock into the slide. There are recesses in the slide and on the barrel just in front of the barrel hood. I am assuming the Norinco barrel was not being locked into the slide and thus the recoil bent the slide stop.This could be a link problem. When the link is up it pushes the barrel into the slide lock lugs.It is hard to tell without a personal inspection.You may be able to estimate barrel link length by placing the barrel in the slide, assembling and look thru the slide stop hole.The barrel should be locked and the link hole centered.Too long of a link may prevent you from opening the slide once a shell is chambered, too short of a link will not allow the barrel to come up enough to lock. The loose hammer is a result usually of the strut not being pushed far enough 'up'. It could me possibly a short strut, or a short mainspring. Was the hammer or mainspring housing switched? Note that the mainspring cap is what actually pushes against the strut. If it looks like it is far enough up, the culpret may be a wrong part. The mainspring cap has to have enough room to push the strut up.You can't necessarily swap parts between a 'GI' type and a Llama. Slight differences there. As to the bushing you want the slightest drag at the muzzle end of the barrel so the barrel does not wobble in the bushing. The bushing should be tight in the slide. In all, I am of the belief you may not be able to put a GI type slide on the LLama without extensive alterations. That is why the LLama barrel did not work in the Brazilian slide.Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but I think you can't do what you what to do. Not easily anyway.

07-11-2008, 10:10 PM	#7
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 437 Images: 10	Ya know, some hammers are loose when down and assembled without the slide on the receiver. Then when the slide is on, it moves the hammer just back far enough for the spring to give it tension. So it may not be as issue once the slide is on. If it has no tension with the slide on and hammer down, then there is an issue.

07-12-2008, 06:58 AM	#8
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,486	Llama is not a direct copy of the classic 1911/1911A-1 gun. This misconception has caused other people problems in the past. That does not mean Llama is not a good gun. I have a friend who has owned and happily fired one for perhaps twenty years.