Just bought a Norinco 213B, which is a 9mm Tokarev made in China. Supposedly it's a close copy of a Hungarian Tokagypt, which was made in Hungary for the Egyptian Army, rejected by them, and adopted by the Egyptian Police.
The main difference is the wraparound contoured grips, which help it point better than the original slab-sided Tok does, and the thumb safety, which seems to be a POS. It loosened up after a couple of mags had been fired, and started moving enough to block a shot now and then.
The gun was apparently new in the (battered) box when I bought it, despite being years old. I'm not sure HOW old; most of the info on the Internet I've found says it was only imported in 1988, but one site said it was imported "occasionally" over the years. When the safety is turned off, the numerals 1967 show, which sure looks like a date to me...
The holster is an online special that was billed as an actual Tokagypt holster; I paid twelve bucks for it, and the seller says that's what the Egyptians used. My nephew laughingly calls it a "bikini holster." A friend is supposed to be bringing me an original Russian full-flap model; meanwhile I bought this one to have somewhere to put the gun while I was loading magazines (it came with two). Surprisingly, it's quite comfortable and accessible to carry in the cross-draw position, with the butt canted toward my belly.
Aside from the safety screwing up, the gun functioned flawlessly for fifty rounds of Winchester 9mm Luger this morning. Apparently it never heard of a break-in period...
Looks good Troy! I believe the grip angle is a bit different than the ones I've looked at and the grips make a lot of difference. This one has more of a "western" look to it.
The grips make all the difference. The frame underneath those wraparound grips is still the original Tokarev frame, though; you can see the front of it. And if you look at the base of the magazine, the rear of the frame is right behind it. I could take these grips off, install traditional Tok panel grips, and be right back to the original awkward weapon.
The downside is that the contoured wraparounds make quite a handful for someone with small hands. As I mentioned somewhere, my nephew has thick stubby hands, and he had trouble hanging onto the gun one-handed. The hammer bit him a couple of times, and bloodied the web of his thumb pretty good. So he went to a two-handed stance. That ended the problem, but it pointed down a little for him, with both hands on it.
I have long, thin hands and fingers, and everything fits like it was custom-made for me. My hand didn't even think about riding up toward that hammer. I'm not wild about the thumb rest though, because I like to shoot left-handed sometimes.
By the way, this thing is incredibly easy to break down and put back together.
Troy, are the grips split in the middle or one-piece like a Mak? If they aren't too complicated, I'd be willing to whip up some without the thumbrest for ya.
They're two-piece grips, toolman. The hardest part would be the fastening system; there's an odd-shaped flat metal piece against the inside of each grip that pivots on a rivet (what looks like a screw in the middle of each star) and locks the grip into place against the subframe. I suppose the simplest solution would probably be to just reuse the ones from an existing set.
It occurred to me to ask you about doing some nice grips. But I was thinking it could get expensive, if you charge what that sort of quality work should be worth.
I was also daydreaming about ghost ring or express sights, or something similar. But I doubt there are many aftermarket sights for this gun...
send me some pics of the retaining system-I gotta see this.
But I'm already half an hour past my bedtime (I get up at 4:30 AM), so we'll have to save it for tomorrow. Just don't have the ambition to set down the beer, disassemble the grips, pick up the camera and take pics, hook the cam up and download the pics, upload the pics to photobucket.com, link to them, etc.
Originally Posted by ICEMAN 357
Nice gun Troy, glad you got it and like it!
The holster however, well that's just unfortunate
The saddest thing about that holster is how well it works, iceman. I'd be hard-put to claim I need another one, just for packing up the hill and target-shooting.
Fortunately, a guy I work with is bringing me a Russian military holster next week when he comes back from vacation: flap, magazine pouch, the whole nine yards. For some reason, he didn't feel like digging it out and making a special trip back to work to bring it to me, before he took off to Chicago.
Update on the grip fasteners:
Didn't have much luck with the pictures, toolman. I guess if I'm going to shoot black-on-black, I need better light. I'll take them outside tomorrow.
Meanwhile, I'm awake and sober at the moment, and I think I can give you a better description:
the grips are held in place with spring-steel clips that are riveted to the center of each grip; they pivot to lock into the sides of the grip frame. One of them has an extra arm sticking down with a little screwdriver notch in the end, so you can reach up into the mag well, push it and unclip the one grip from the frame. That makes it easy to reach through the grip frame and turn the other clip.
Last edited by troy2000; 07-06-2007 at 11:14 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
II'll also PM them to you, in case you miss this posting. The grip with the little arm on the clip is easy to work; the other one is a booger. It's hard to get the ends of the little clip back in place. So I just took a picture with the grip still in place.
I have the Norinco 213 with the "slab sided" grips, and I would think that your 213B would sit so much more comfortably in my hand. I don't have very big hands, and still my pinkie finger ends up curled under the bottom of the magazine. I just wonder if the average Russian officer/Commisar during WW2 had accuracy issues with the tiny little grips of the TT33, especially with the original 7.62x25 rounds. Hell, even my mother in law said, "Oh, what a cute little gun..."!! It does seem rather dimunitive, especially when compared to a 1911......
I have the same gun with the 1967 date also. Bought it years ago and never used it untill I ran into it in a closet. I never shot it because the clips were broken. (the bottom retainer is plastic and will break easily if you slap the clip in hard) I fixed the clip and took it out to shoot. To my surprise it is a very nice shooting weapon. Not bad for accuracy either. The large grips fit my hand perfectly. Mine just says model 213, no B on the gun. It surprised me anough that I am going to look for the model in a 7.62x25 series. That also is a really ugly holster Will not feed HP