45-70 black Powder

LouMG · 03-19-2008, 02:23 PM

Does anyone have a black powder load for a NEF 45-70 Handi Rifle, I have some 405 g cast and jacketed. Pyrodex would be OK.

lou

Cyrille · 03-19-2008, 03:25 PM

I don't know what type of rifle you have. Is it safe for both BP and Smokeless or is it only safe for BP? 405 gr bullets are the heavest I know of in factory loaded ammo.
I shoot 500 gr bullets from my .45/70 with BP in 2 F granulation. But my rifle can also handle smokeless powder within safe limits of course.

Bookman · 03-19-2008, 05:15 PM

I used to shoot .45/70 blackpowder matches using a full case of Pyrodex and a 405 gr. cast lead bullet. This load kicked like #@%@ but it shot very well.

You might want to try 55 grains of Pyrodex or BP. 55 grains of powder was the "carbine" load back in the 1880's. Your Handi Rifle will handle it easily, but even with this reduced load you can expect some stout recoil. Blame the 405 gr. bullet.

Mooseman684 · 03-19-2008, 10:30 PM

The Standard 45/70 Load is 70 grains of Black powder, but for pyrodex it is the same VOLUME in the case and not the Weight....
Rich

LouMG · 03-20-2008, 11:48 AM

I am sure the Handi can handle BP loads as it is designed for modern smokeless loads. I always load down first. Our BP matches allow cartridge guns and I cant afford a Sharpes. I wanted to get started in BP cartridge and think this will be inexpensive way to get my feet wet. I also have 325 g cast bullets. I will start with loads under 70g. Was the original Mil load a 500 g bullet, I thought it was called the 45-70-500?

Thanks Lou

Mooseman684 · 03-20-2008, 12:01 PM

The original load was a 405 grain lead bullet and 70 gr. Black powder....
Safe for the old Trapdoor Springfields and it will be safe for your H&R...
Rich

rfc357 · 03-27-2008, 02:43 PM

Buy the Lyman blackpowder manual. It contains lots of loads.

jimkim · 03-27-2008, 02:59 PM

the old style gave the cal. followed by powder weight in grains followed by bullet weight so 45-70-405 govt means 45cal with 70gr. powder with a bullet weight if 405gr. They had a reduced load at on time for .45-70 that had 65 grains as well as the 55 mentioned before. get a copy of cartridges of the world and the lyman book. Or if you are near a library that carries shooting times and guns and ammo look through the back issues they have done much with the 45-70.

petemi · 04-09-2008, 08:53 AM

Take a look at "Forty Years with the .45-70" revised by Paul A. Matthews ISBN 0-935632-84-0. I bought mine on amazon.com, or you might find it in a good library. Also, Graybeard Outdoors, gbo.com, H&R/NEF Talk is a great resource for Handi Rifle information and help.

TNRICK55 · 04-09-2008, 12:55 PM

i used 65 grains with over powder wad

Mike Franklin · 05-01-2008, 09:56 PM

You do know that the case must be full enough that there is no air space between the bottom of the bullet and the powder right?
BTW, try Fereral Mag Rifle Primers.
The US Cavalry used a lighter load, it was believed that a Mounted Trooper would have trouble with the Infantry load.

Rex in OTZ · 05-23-2008, 01:46 PM

I have a Remington rolling block/clone that shot horrible patterns at 55yds 2foot up & to the left useing Federal 350gr hollow points, reloaded used Pyrodex P and some muzzle loader bullets I had these were a sabot type but measured .457 with my calipers with the sabot removed also used Hornaday lead round balls .458 federal cases were re-used with winchester large rifle primers the powder was in two different quantitys 23gr shook out the cap/ball flask nipple, and 60gr from a adjustable muzzle loader powder measure, I dident use any filler's or wads or gas checks they all shot great and we were shooting a coffie can out 130yds away with both round ball & slugs only missed 4 out the 40 rounds we shot 15 were the lead round ball load, my guess the remington liked the slower velocity those round ball loads are very accurate and pretty effective on rabbits.

03-19-2008, 02:23 PM	#1
LouMG Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NY Posts: 13	45-70 black Powder Does anyone have a black powder load for a NEF 45-70 Handi Rifle, I have some 405 g cast and jacketed. Pyrodex would be OK. lou

03-19-2008, 10:30 PM	#4
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness...Currently in Holiday, Fla. Posts: 10,999 Images: 2	The Standard 45/70 Load is 70 grains of Black powder, but for pyrodex it is the same VOLUME in the case and not the Weight.... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

03-20-2008, 11:48 AM	#5
LouMG Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NY Posts: 13	Thank you for start I am sure the Handi can handle BP loads as it is designed for modern smokeless loads. I always load down first. Our BP matches allow cartridge guns and I cant afford a Sharpes. I wanted to get started in BP cartridge and think this will be inexpensive way to get my feet wet. I also have 325 g cast bullets. I will start with loads under 70g. Was the original Mil load a 500 g bullet, I thought it was called the 45-70-500? Thanks Lou

03-20-2008, 12:01 PM	#6
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness...Currently in Holiday, Fla. Posts: 10,999 Images: 2	The original load was a 405 grain lead bullet and 70 gr. Black powder.... Safe for the old Trapdoor Springfields and it will be safe for your H&R... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

03-27-2008, 02:59 PM	#8
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Near the Little Ocmulgee river in GA Posts: 2,608 Blog Entries: 15	the old style gave the cal. followed by powder weight in grains followed by bullet weight so 45-70-405 govt means 45cal with 70gr. powder with a bullet weight if 405gr. They had a reduced load at on time for .45-70 that had 65 grains as well as the 55 mentioned before. get a copy of cartridges of the world and the lyman book. Or if you are near a library that carries shooting times and guns and ammo look through the back issues they have done much with the 45-70. __________________ "Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

03-19-2008, 03:25 PM	#2
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,961	I don't know what type of rifle you have. Is it safe for both BP and Smokeless or is it only safe for BP? 405 gr bullets are the heavest I know of in factory loaded ammo. I shoot 500 gr bullets from my .45/70 with BP in 2 F granulation. But my rifle can also handle smokeless powder within safe limits of course.

03-19-2008, 05:15 PM	#3
Bookman Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: 10 paces south of Canada Posts: 763	I used to shoot .45/70 blackpowder matches using a full case of Pyrodex and a 405 gr. cast lead bullet. This load kicked like #@%@ but it shot very well. You might want to try 55 grains of Pyrodex or BP. 55 grains of powder was the "carbine" load back in the 1880's. Your Handi Rifle will handle it easily, but even with this reduced load you can expect some stout recoil. Blame the 405 gr. bullet.

03-27-2008, 02:43 PM	#7
rfc357 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 741	Buy the Lyman blackpowder manual. It contains lots of loads.

04-09-2008, 08:53 AM	#9
petemi Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Engadine, Upper Peninsula, MI Posts: 109	Take a look at "Forty Years with the .45-70" revised by Paul A. Matthews ISBN 0-935632-84-0. I bought mine on amazon.com, or you might find it in a good library. Also, Graybeard Outdoors, gbo.com, H&R/NEF Talk is a great resource for Handi Rifle information and help.

04-09-2008, 12:55 PM	#10
TNRICK55 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: TENNESSEE Posts: 74	i used 65 grains with over powder wad __________________ 1st. GOD 2ND RIGHT TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS.

05-01-2008, 09:56 PM	#11
Mike Franklin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 1,276	You do know that the case must be full enough that there is no air space between the bottom of the bullet and the powder right? BTW, try Fereral Mag Rifle Primers. The US Cavalry used a lighter load, it was believed that a Mounted Trooper would have trouble with the Infantry load.

05-23-2008, 01:46 PM	#12
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NorthWest Alaska Posts: 643	I have a Remington rolling block/clone that shot horrible patterns at 55yds 2foot up & to the left useing Federal 350gr hollow points, reloaded used Pyrodex P and some muzzle loader bullets I had these were a sabot type but measured .457 with my calipers with the sabot removed also used Hornaday lead round balls .458 federal cases were re-used with winchester large rifle primers the powder was in two different quantitys 23gr shook out the cap/ball flask nipple, and 60gr from a adjustable muzzle loader powder measure, I dident use any filler's or wads or gas checks they all shot great and we were shooting a coffie can out 130yds away with both round ball & slugs only missed 4 out the 40 rounds we shot 15 were the lead round ball load, my guess the remington liked the slower velocity those round ball loads are very accurate and pretty effective on rabbits.