Surprise

[BattleRifleG3]

Talking on Gunboards.com, I learned that my Czech M98/22 is actually a Gew 98 from Czechoslovakia, besed on the "roller coaster" rear site. Can anyone tell me more about this? Is this the original 98 Mauser? What would its value be? I paid $75 plus tax and fees at Dunhams as though it were a 98/22. I think it may be marked 98/22 in the barrel. Have to czech it when I stop home.

[PAPA G]

sorry bud its no rare and valuble collector item, by any stretch of the imagination. worth about what you paid for, but its a great gun, get some ammo and enjoy it!!! remember proper cleaning immediately after shooting corrosive ammo, and you'll have it for a lifetime.

[Big Dog]

Check the book! After perusing Robert Ball's "Mauser Military Rifles of the World":
The Czech BRNO factory opened in 1919, producing a copy of the Mexican 1912 Mauser, known as the Model 1898/22. My buddy's 98/22 has the then standard adjustable rear sight, not the "roller coaster" ("Lange Visier) rear sight of the earlier Gewehr 98. No true Czech Mauser has that sight.

Methinks you have . . . "The FrankenMauser"!

Probably a parts rifle cobbled up from different parts.
Get that headspace checked before shooting it, just to be on the safe side.
A pic or three would really help to nail this beast down.

If it was assembled correctly, and the bore is good, it could still be a nice shooter.

With all the different models and variations of Mausers, it makes collecting these rifles fun and sometimes an adventure!

[BattleRifleG3]

I have no digital camera yet, maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list...
It's at home, I'm at school, so it'll be a while before I can really get close and examine it. I wasn't expecting it to be some sky high collectible, just a little more than I expected when I bought it.

[Ricochet]

BigDog, I don't think that's quite right. Ball's book, of course, is a terrific resource, but I've never seen any reference on anything that was 100% complete and reliable. I've been spending a lot of time online researching the history of the 98/22 over the last several days, having just bought one. (The last one Miss T of Treasure Hunt Arms had.) There's a lot of info to be found, especially looking back through the archives in Gunboards' Military Mausers Forum and the Czech Mauser Forums on Parallax Bill's board and the SurplusRifle.com board. To summarize, it now appears that there were a total of 6 blocks of about 10,000 of these rifles produced. As the Germans were forbidden from producing military rifles, the Czechoslovakian State Armory (Csescoslovenska Staqt Zbrojovka) in Brno bought a whole production line for the Gewehr 98 from the Germans, along with all tools, gauges, parts on hand and work in progress. When they got it set up they picked up where the Germans had left off with the Gew 98s. This is the rifle known as the 98/22 or Vz 22. They were initially made with no alphabetical prefix, with numbers going from (likely) 1 up to 9999. At least they maxed out in 4 digits. There are several 2 and 3 digit numbers in the serial number surveys, with no leading zeroes. Some say these first rifles were sold directly to Turkey. Then there were blocks with the letters A-C that were produced for the Czechoslovakian Army, and most of these are marked with an acceptance mark on the left receiver rail consisting of an E, a lion, and 23 for 1923. Some have only a V. Some say that was a Turkish acceptance mark, some say they believe that was a Czech proof applied before the inspector's office was established that produced the lion acceptance mark. At any rate, all of these were sold to Turkey when the Czechs switched over to the Vz 24 short rifle. There was definitely a Block E produced on contract for Turkey in 1927, after the Czechs had dropped the 98/22 as an official weapon of their army. Block D is a big question. Some have stated there were no D rifles, but at least one forum member said he had one. That may account for the 98/22s that went to China, and some of which even turned up in Japan at the end of WWII. Anyway, the early rifles really were Gew 98s. They were produced with mostly Gew 98 parts, and some of them were well on the way to being built as Gew 98s in Germany before the Czechs got the production line going and finished them. Many early 98/22s have parts with German fraktur markings on them, Gew 98 pieces made by the Germans that the Czechs used up. Early 98/22s with the Lange Vizier rear sight typical of the Gew 98 are seen on the early unlettered rifles and some of the A block. Likely more of these rifles originally had that sight, but it was replaced by CZ with the tangent sight with Eastern Arabic numbers for the Turks when they bought the rifles.

By all accounts, there were no more than 60,000 of these rifles made. Relatively few have survived in their original configuration, many of them having been reworked along with other assorted Mausers into M39 Turkish Mausers from 1939 into the early '50s. Ones not marked with Turkish markings are even rarer. These rifles have come from Turkey along with the various "Turk" Mausers at a low price, well used but often with very good bores and accuracy. I think the low price reflected their worn appearance and the fact that they weren't a well known Mauser variant. But the word went out this spring (before I had gotten my C&R license, alas!) about what good shooting rifles these are supposed to be, and that the supply was quite limited, and a feeding frenzy ensued. They're uncommon on the dealer market now, and the average price has risen substantially from what it was up till early May when J&G Sales ran out of their on-sale ones. I expect they'll go up in price as they become better known. Any major Mauser variant with such low production and intact survival numbers would, I'd expect.

Now, I'm no Mauser historical expert. I'm just quoting stuff I've sifted through this week on the Web, googling and reading lots of posts and Web pages. There remain lots of unanswered questions, and we'll likely never know the whole story.

But aside from all that, they're widely reputed to be great shooters, and that's what I want!


Here are some pics of mine, BTW: (Note that mine has the later tangent sight.)

[BattleRifleG3]

So you're saying that my 98/22 is likely worth more now than before? Good reason to keep it in good shape then. About how much more, you figure?

[Ricochet]

Well, there aren't any more $70 98/22s. There are a few dealers advertising them at double that or a bit more. There's one guy on Auction Arms running a scam ad with a "Buy It Now" for $89, but he's been running that ad for a month with a start date on it of July 31, I think. Who knows what'll happen with the value of any of these milsurps? History suggests they'll all go up. Many things that are now quite pricey were the cheapie things the "serious" collectors scorned when they first became available, in bulk at low prices, to start with. Like Ballester-Molina .45s, or M1909 Argentine Mausers. Or Siamese Mausers, which could be had for $20 a few years back. Most of them got Bubba'd to crappy .45-70s, and the originals are $400 rifles now. I'm old enough to remember being able to order excellent and unissued U.S. M1917s, 1903s and M1s from ads in the back of the Rifleman for about $18.95, mail order, and having to clean all that cosmoline out to shoot them. Now something like that would be over $1000. Hasn't been long since nice M96 Swedish Mausers were commonplace $60 items. Now you'd need to put a 2 or a 3 in front of that. Similar to the Persian Mausers. Stick around and see. But don't do anything to that 98/22, which is an unusual one.

[Ricochet]

Oh yeah, one more tidbit: The crest with three lines reading

CS. ST.
ZBROJOVSKA
BRNO

in an arch is seen on the earlier series 98/22s. (Unlettered through C.) The E-series Turkish-contract ones have the 3 lines in straight lines. Dunno about the D-series ones.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by BattleRifleG3

Talking on Gunboards.com, I learned that my Czech M98/22 is actually a Gew 98 from Czechoslovakia, besed on the "roller coaster" rear site. Can anyone tell me more about this? Is this the original 98 Mauser? What would its value be? I paid $75 plus tax and fees at Dunhams as though it were a 98/22. I think it may be marked 98/22 in the barrel. Have to czech it when I stop home.

I bought a couple through C&R in April and am looking at some $50 one's with Broken stocks for future builds -- very common rifle compared to the Turk

[Big Dog]

Thanks for the clarification, Ricochet. Excellent info!
I'll have to print this for my buddy, and see where his rifle falls in the scheme of things.

[Ricochet]

I don't believe they are common compared to the Turk. Many of the Turks started off as 98/22s, along with Gew 98s, M1903s and a variety of other Mausers that got reworked to a standardized configuration. There was a temporary glut of them on the market, but they'll prove quite uncommon in the long run.

[Ricochet]

The sling for my M98/22 got here before the rifle did. A Gew 98 WWI repro purchased for $19.95 (+ $6.50 shipping) from: http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/352 It's a nice sling, made out of proper vegetable-tanned medium brown latigo, which smells heavenly. The leather's roll-marked with fine lines crisscrossing to make a fine diamond pattern. The stitching on the rear end's well done. The 3 hardware pieces (rear quick-detachable sling swivel, hanger, and front latch, I don't know the official terminology) are finished in glossy black enamel. The swivel body and front latch are cast, and the swivel body of mine is a bit irregularly shaped but works fine. Although my rifle still has a rear swivel on it, this sling is sewed around the swivel, so I'll have to keep the original stored. If one wanted to go to the trouble of cutting out the stitches and restitching the sling around the old swivel, it could be used of course. I'd bet this is the same sling I found for $12 at http://www.hillmilitary.com/rifle-slings.htm but I'm still happy with it for $20. I oiled it down well with vegetable oil, which makes the leather nice and supple, water resistant, and gives it a nice dark, shiney "antiquey" look.

On a related topic, I've also ordered a sling for my VZ.24. On being told that the original Czech sling is the same as that used by the Japanese, I ordered a repro WWII Arisaka sling from Sportsman's Guide for $12.97. On that site I also noticed that they have a "WWII Sling" that looks like a U.S. M1907 copy for $17.97.

None of these would excite a sling collector, but for those of us mainly interested in maintaining a shooter with period-looking accessories, they'll get the job done nicely.

[Ricochet]

BTW, you might like to scroll down this page http://www.lawranceordnance.com/new/rifle.html and look at the asking price for a "fair to good" M98/22!

[Ricochet]

My 98/22 came in Friday. After surviving all the Czechoslovakian and Turkish soldiers' rough treatment since 1922, UPS smashed it in two at the wrist. It was packed in a normal long cardboard gunbox, very densely padded with newspaper. There were three parts to the break. The biggest part was a clean split along the grain from the rear part of the trigger guard cutout to just below the base of the front of the comb. There was a jagged break from there straight up to the the front of the comb, about 1/2" high and the width of the stock, and a long tapering splinter based on the butt fragment and extending forward to the rear of the trigger guard. It was split back far to the rear of the extent of the rest of the break, "hinged" at the rear. A small fragment was missing along the fracture line on the left side, leaving an unsightly hole when it was pieced together.

I discussed the matter with the dealer I bought it from, who wanted to make it right but was reluctant to deal with UPS on past unpleasant experience. (He also related some horror stories of deliberate package damage witnessed by his son, who used to work for UPS in shipping.) Problem is, good stocks for 98/22s aren't all that available, and I certainly neither wanted to surrender this rifle to UPS or return it to the dealer for a refund. It's an early rifle, with no visible Turkish markings, and the stock had lovely "tiger striping" on the butt.

I studied the break for a long while, and decided it could be glued. The irregular vertical face would provide a very snug lock-and-key fit, would be completely under compression and in line with recoil force, therefore no reinforcing dowel should be needed. I bought a 20 gram tube of LocTite Super Glue and out it together in stages, first gluing down the splinter securely. I searched through the packing papers and found the tiny fragment which, when glued in place, filled the hole perfectly. I then coated the entire fracture surface and fitted the two main pieces together with firm pressure. This glue is almost instant-setting, so it had to go right the first time. I'd used a bit too much, and despite anticipating the problem and coating the outside of the stock with Johnon's Paste Wax as a release agent, the glue that squirted out hardened and bonded tightly to the stock, requiring a tedious cleanup job. The crack was pretty subtle except across the top of the wrist. I rubbed wood filler in it, smoothed it with 0000 steel wool, stained it to approximate the color of the walnut, and later rubbed the stock down with two coats of boiled linseed oil. It looks very nice, and it takes an observant inspector to notice the break.

I fired 60 rounds of 1943 Turkish ammo through it Sunday (getting my first cracked case neck out of 140 rounds so far), and found the rifle to be quite accurate. The limit on the group sizes so far is my poor ability to see the sights and hold a consistent, precise sight picture. It shoots very low, requiring the 400 meter setting to be on target at 100 yards. Ejection is inconsistent, sometimes not ejecting at all, other times weakly, only rarely really kicking one out as my other Mausers do. The ejector isn't protruding out the front of the bolt face as much as on the others. I've got to take out the bolt stop/ejector and see if there's some sort of buildup on it or on the bolt preventing the bolt from coming back far enough for the ejector to work well. I guess I'll need to find a lower front sight blade, too. If I just grind off the top of this one, the width of the sight will be too much for the rear sight notch. The rear sight's obviously not original with the barrel. (I'll bet it had the Lange Vizier sight when made.) Did I mention that the bore is excellent? It is. The external metal is rather worn and patinized with only traces of blue remaining, but there is NO pitting under the wood line. There was one small chunk of rust that I flicked off with my thumbnail after rubbing it with kerosene. That's all! No part matches any other, except for the receiver and barrel.

All that said, it's a very attractive and nice shooting rifle. I love these long rifles. It balances beautifully for offhand shooting, and even with my poor marksmanship abilities, using a hasty sling I can put 'em all in the black of a 100 yard smallbore target at 100 yards, after finding the elevation.

My wife's impressed with how I've fixed this one up, and the others that I've freshened up. She says I ought to go into business doing that. I'm not about to do that, of course, but it's nice to have her favorably disposed to this activity. She took some pictures of me with my recent acquisitions tonight, and when I get 'em developed and scanned I'll post 'em.