Turkish Mauser Question

RodneyKSig · 05-03-2005, 06:46 PM

So recently I made a purchase of a Turkish Mauser from a local gundealer in Indiana close to my school (Wabash College). Anyways, the question is this particular mauser, mind you it is a Turkish model, has a turned down bolt like would be found on the average K98. In all of the images of Trukish mausers I have seen all the bolts have been straight, i have even fired a straight bolt a buddy of mine's dad has. I like the bent bolt because I think that I will be able to attach a canteleever scope mount because it will clear the turned down bolt, like the ones seen on Iron Elite's website. Is the bent bolt a common occurence on Turkish mausers? And if not could someone tell me what variation of mauser I have. The rifle mind you is completely stock, nothing has been done to it, to my knowledge. It is chambered for 8mm german as is to be expected. Any information would be greately appreciated.

Also sorry for the lengthy post.

gunssb · 05-03-2005, 06:57 PM

Perhaps only the bolt body has been swapped out. In fact, I talked to the Iron Elite guy some days ago about a scope mount for my vz24 (decided against it in the end) and the first thing he said was swap out the bolt body with a K98 bolt so you can put a regular cantilever mount (instead of the offset one). Make sure it headspaces right though with the different bolt.

DANA · 05-03-2005, 07:52 PM

Turkish Mod 1905 carbine and Mod 38 short rifle have turned down bolts. Mauser Military Rifles of the World Third Edition

DANA

gunssb · 05-03-2005, 08:11 PM

DANA is right. RodneyKSig do you have the carbine/short rifle version or the long rifle ?
The 1905 carbine looks a lot like an Argentine 1909 carbine ?

RodneyKSig · 05-04-2005, 03:09 AM

Yes,

The gun looks alot like the Argentine 1909 carbine, althought the rifle is distinctly Turkish with the multiple crescent moons towards the butt of the stock by the bolt. I believe that the gun shop owner said that it was a Mod 38, but I do not remember for sure.

Anyways thanks for the help and any more you can shoot my way would be greatly appreciated.

gunssb · 05-04-2005, 07:19 AM

wow - Turk Mauser with the full Mannlicher style stock ? Haven't seen too many of those around!

Big Dog · 05-04-2005, 07:54 AM

I found the following Turk Mauser info over on Gunboard's K98 forum, written by DocAV, a very knowledgable Mauser collector:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For further detailed info, go to Parallax "Turkish Mauser Board"

Three (or four) basic groups of "Turkish Short rifles" post 1930s:
A. M1903/37 short rifle: a conversion of M1903 to the short rifle format,in 7,9mm, following some 1920s shortening of original 7,65 calibre M1903s to a 24 inch barrel: Marking "ASFA ANKARA" and 1937 date, similar to M1903/30 calibre conversions.

B. Kar98a refurbished, dated 1937: Just that new stock without all the bits of the original Kar98a; occasionally new barrel, stepped ( orig, kar barrel tapered)

C: Gew98/37 Short rifle: the title says it all; new stock, new barrel, ASFA Ankara marking and 1937 date. May also have 1938 date (different serial block.) Front band may be "H" band, rather than Turkish 93/03 band Sights may be "eared" (kar98a) or Standard.

D: "Kirikkale Short Rifle", Dates 1944-46, about 15,000 made. Same structural details as long "Kirikkale" Turk Mausers, except shorter barrel and "eared" front sights.

Other Turkish short rifles: During the immediate post WW I reconstruction period, many WW I rifles were "shortened" for Gendarmerie and Cavalry etc. Use: exampls seen include all the Turkish Mausers (M90, 93, 903

and the Gew88; Some were "short rifles" others, with side slings attached, were "Carbines". The variety seen on the web photos is enormous, as the work was carried out mostly by district Base workshops or divisional armourers during the Greco-Turkish war and the Civil War ( 1919-1923). Some are very professionally done.

Designators "M38" and "M38/46" are Importers invention, and should not be used, as they lead to misinterpretation as to what the rifle actually is.
The Turks themselves considered Every 7,9mm rifle as a "M938" irrespective of when it was introduced.

Hope this little dissertaition has helped our new collector.

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics

05-03-2005, 06:46 PM	#1
RodneyKSig Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In the Great City of San Antonio in The Greatest State of Texas Posts: 41	Turkish Mauser Question So recently I made a purchase of a Turkish Mauser from a local gundealer in Indiana close to my school (Wabash College). Anyways, the question is this particular mauser, mind you it is a Turkish model, has a turned down bolt like would be found on the average K98. In all of the images of Trukish mausers I have seen all the bolts have been straight, i have even fired a straight bolt a buddy of mine's dad has. I like the bent bolt because I think that I will be able to attach a canteleever scope mount because it will clear the turned down bolt, like the ones seen on Iron Elite's website. Is the bent bolt a common occurence on Turkish mausers? And if not could someone tell me what variation of mauser I have. The rifle mind you is completely stock, nothing has been done to it, to my knowledge. It is chambered for 8mm german as is to be expected. Any information would be greately appreciated. Also sorry for the lengthy post. __________________ If you want Peace, you must prepare for War." -The Punisher

05-03-2005, 07:52 PM	#3
DANA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WAITSFIELD VERMONT Posts: 1,579	Turkish Mod 1905 carbine and Mod 38 short rifle have turned down bolts. Mauser Military Rifles of the World Third Edition DANA Last edited by DANA; 05-03-2005 at 07:55 PM.

05-04-2005, 03:09 AM	#5
RodneyKSig Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In the Great City of San Antonio in The Greatest State of Texas Posts: 41	Yes, The gun looks alot like the Argentine 1909 carbine, althought the rifle is distinctly Turkish with the multiple crescent moons towards the butt of the stock by the bolt. I believe that the gun shop owner said that it was a Mod 38, but I do not remember for sure. Anyways thanks for the help and any more you can shoot my way would be greatly appreciated. __________________ If you want Peace, you must prepare for War." -The Punisher

05-04-2005, 07:54 AM	#7
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 9,843	I found the following Turk Mauser info over on Gunboard's K98 forum, written by DocAV, a very knowledgable Mauser collector: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For further detailed info, go to Parallax "Turkish Mauser Board" Three (or four) basic groups of "Turkish Short rifles" post 1930s: A. M1903/37 short rifle: a conversion of M1903 to the short rifle format,in 7,9mm, following some 1920s shortening of original 7,65 calibre M1903s to a 24 inch barrel: Marking "ASFA ANKARA" and 1937 date, similar to M1903/30 calibre conversions. B. Kar98a refurbished, dated 1937: Just that new stock without all the bits of the original Kar98a; occasionally new barrel, stepped ( orig, kar barrel tapered) C: Gew98/37 Short rifle: the title says it all; new stock, new barrel, ASFA Ankara marking and 1937 date. May also have 1938 date (different serial block.) Front band may be "H" band, rather than Turkish 93/03 band Sights may be "eared" (kar98a) or Standard. D: "Kirikkale Short Rifle", Dates 1944-46, about 15,000 made. Same structural details as long "Kirikkale" Turk Mausers, except shorter barrel and "eared" front sights. Other Turkish short rifles: During the immediate post WW I reconstruction period, many WW I rifles were "shortened" for Gendarmerie and Cavalry etc. Use: exampls seen include all the Turkish Mausers (M90, 93, 903 and the Gew88; Some were "short rifles" others, with side slings attached, were "Carbines". The variety seen on the web photos is enormous, as the work was carried out mostly by district Base workshops or divisional armourers during the Greco-Turkish war and the Civil War ( 1919-1923). Some are very professionally done. Designators "M38" and "M38/46" are Importers invention, and should not be used, as they lead to misinterpretation as to what the rifle actually is. The Turks themselves considered Every 7,9mm rifle as a "M938" irrespective of when it was introduced. Hope this little dissertaition has helped our new collector. Regards, Doc AV AV Ballistics __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

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05-03-2005, 06:57 PM	#2
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833	Perhaps only the bolt body has been swapped out. In fact, I talked to the Iron Elite guy some days ago about a scope mount for my vz24 (decided against it in the end) and the first thing he said was swap out the bolt body with a K98 bolt so you can put a regular cantilever mount (instead of the offset one). Make sure it headspaces right though with the different bolt.

05-03-2005, 08:11 PM	#4
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833	DANA is right. RodneyKSig do you have the carbine/short rifle version or the long rifle ? The 1905 carbine looks a lot like an Argentine 1909 carbine ?

05-04-2005, 07:19 AM	#6
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833	wow - Turk Mauser with the full Mannlicher style stock ? Haven't seen too many of those around!