Spanish M1916 Guardia Civil

Big Dog · 12-02-2006, 09:53 AM

Got my new Spanish Mauser! She's a nice M1916 Guardia Civil chambered in 7.62X51. Wood is very good, with enough dings to have character but still looking good. Metal is mostly blued, excellent on the receiver and barrel, more worn on the floorplate and bands.
Bolt is shiny white/chrome - beautiful!
It came with a nice leather sling showing some shelf wear and green grundge on the buckle, and a muzzle cap. I also ordered a bayonet, though it shows a lot of wear! German markings on the bayo, so it may not actually be for this rifle - have to research this.
Shooting was good. I used Spanish Santa Barbara 7.62X51 dated 1981 - the ammo this rifle is designed for.
At 50 yards, I was shooting an easy two inch group, grouped around the bullseye - on the target above the one I aimed on.
Shooting about a foot high, but grouping good. At 100 yards, I'm above and off target. Well, the rear sight is set for 300 meters minimum - so I expect it to shoot high.
It was cold and windy this morning, so I didn't stay long. Just wanted to try it out. When the weather is better, I'll see what it can really do!

So far, I'm pleased!

DWARREN123 · 12-02-2006, 06:14 PM

I believe I want one. A Mauser in 7.62X51mm is my dream.

Full MeTal Jack · 12-02-2006, 09:07 PM

Nice one "Bigs".
Where did you buy it from?
I've been looking at Samco, they advertise in Very Good condition.
Do you think it will shoot better with different ammo?
ON a scale of 1-10, what would be your recomendaton on purchasing one?
When you pull the bolt all the way back does it have a lot of side to side play or wobble?

devil8975 · 12-02-2006, 10:07 PM

I've got one of those myself. im itching to try the new low recoil loads from federal. theyd be perfect for the light action in these little rifles

jerry · 12-02-2006, 10:19 PM

Had one back in the late 80's wish I still had it, didn't know what I had back then. Nice gun.

Big Dog · 12-03-2006, 07:36 AM

FMJ, the bolt is not loose like some Mausers, but not real tight either. The trigger is very nice for a two-stage military type - some take-up, then breaks clean, not too heavy at all. Bore is mirror bright! Next time out, I'll try the Hirtenberger and Aussie 7.62X51 in it. The FR8 and CETME like those over the Spanish SB. It would be a good rifle to reload for, making fairly light loads.
The front sight was straight, unlike the one on my buddy's M1916. His shoots far tot he left! Mine is dead-on in windage.
It came with a leather sling that looks unissued - shelf-storage dirt and grunge, but very good condition. Also has a clip-on muzzle protector.
We ordered from Samco, and they took their sweet time shipping it. But, it was worth the wait!
Barrel and receiver numbers match, but the trigger guard/mag housing and bolt are different numbers. I guess on these old rifles, getting all-matching would be a real fluke.
Another $19.99 for the very-well-used bayonet. Wood handles are beat up, and the steel scabbard is worn and dented. German company stamped on the blade - "WEYERSBERG KIRSCHBAUM & Co SOLINGEN".
Quite different guard and pommel than my Yugo Mauser bayonet - it won't fit the standard M98 rifles, just the earlier small ring Mauser.
$129.95 for the rifle - not a bad deal at all! I'm pleased.

Full MeTal Jack · 12-03-2006, 12:32 PM

I was thinking of buying another K-31 for my Christmas present.
Not sure if Samco accepts C&Rs but, no problem. A $15 commission on sale from local FFL is ok.
Had one about 10 years ago that grouped about 10" at 25 yards. P-O-S!!!
I like the way the rifle feels and handles. Seems well balanced.
Thanks BD
PS, I'm trying to talk my cousin out of his 43 Spanish sporterized mauser. Just the stock was butchered.

Full MeTal Jack · 12-29-2006, 07:46 PM

big Dog. I changed my mind. Instead of buying another rifle, for the same price I had to continue with one of my projects. I have a Parker Hale heavy barrel on a 1922 mauser action.
Bought a Midnight laminated Fagen F54 barrel channel stock.
I have almost enough rifles

littlejoe872 · 12-29-2006, 09:50 PM

Very nice Big Dog. Good luck with it. I still haven't had the FR-7 out to the range yet, so nothing new to report. I'll have to keep an eye out for that ammo you used and were looking for for the FR-7.

hoots · 01-13-2007, 06:47 PM

First post. Great site...lots of good info here.

Big Dog, where did you order your bayonet and sling? I've just "inherited" what appears to be an old 7mm short Mauser. I think it's a 1916. It looks very similar to yours but there are no markings anywhere on it that indicate a Guardia Civil model. At any rate, I'd like to get a proper sling, cleaning rod, and bayonet. The price is right on this bayonet at sportsmansguide (Used Yugo Mil. Mauser M48 Bayonet With Scabbard, Military Surplus, Brand Not Specified, Collectible Blued Steel Blade Razor Sharp Knife Military at Sportsman's Guide) but they won't ship "cutlery" to Texas. Any leads?

Also, I fired about 10 rounds through it when I picked it up. The ammo was pretty old Remington 7mm Mauser (175 grain, "soft point"). The rifle fired well, but I noticed that about half of the spent casings had a 1/2 inch longitudinal tear down the side originating at the projectile end. Could this be caused by old ammo or do I have a breach problem?

Thanks for any pointers!

Full MeTal Jack · 01-14-2007, 05:55 PM

Used Yugo Mil. Mauser® M48 Bayonet with Scabbard
Dang! SG can't ship long blade knives to Texas. It must be the OJ LAW.

Big Dog · 01-16-2007, 07:36 AM

Hoots, the sling and bayo came with it from Samco Global Sales - though I did have to pay extra for the bayo. It uses a different style of mounting than the later '98 Mausers - the M48 bayo WILL NOT fit the M1916 or earlier small-ring Mauser rifles. I tried too. The spacing between the barrel and bayo lug are different. So, you do need the correct bayo. Samco sells these separately though. Shipping to Texas though - that I can't help you with. Bummer!
The issue sling is very short and stiff - not a proper 'shooting sling' like the M1903 Springfield has. This is just a carry strap.

toolman · 01-17-2007, 02:05 AM

That's one I've NEVER heard of Hoots. We have some of the most lenient weapons laws in the U.S. so I'm thinking it might just be S.G.

hoots · 01-20-2007, 06:37 PM

toolman, agreed. It's an SG policy...no idea why though.

Big Dog · 01-21-2007, 05:34 AM

I would guess that someone ordered a knife from SG, then went out and did a dastardly deed - SG might have gotten burned in court action. Lots of idiots try to blame the vendors for the criminals actions these days. So, SG tries to tailor their shipping to each state's particular laws and regs. Most other vendors just don't sell knives to a few less-than-free states - seems to work better IMHO.
If possible, you could have a family member in another state receive the goods, then you get it when you visit them. Or find another vendor who will ship to you. Mauser bayonets aren't that scarce. Even ebay could be a good possibility!

mt3030 · 02-06-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dog

....Spanish Santa Barbara 7.62X51 dated 1981 - the ammo this rifle is designed for....

The Model 1893 and 1916 are a couple of my favorite Mausers. But both were designed for and originally chambered for the 7x57, one of the all time great calibers. Spain started a program to rebarrel some of the Model 1916s and all of the Model 1943s to 7.62x51 in the late 50s or early 60s. Before that the Model 1943s were all in 8x57 and the 1916 were still in 7x57, the same with the original FR-7s. The FR-8 were based on the model 98 action, same as the Model 1943. Now that should be as clear as mud!
Sorry. Didn't mean to get so long winded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoots

....I think it's a 1916. It looks very similar to yours but there are no markings anywhere on it ....
....I noticed that about half of the spent casings had a 1/2 inch longitudinal tear down the side originating at the projectile end. Could this be caused by old ammo or do I have a breach problem?....

Many of the Model 1916s were built outside the government arsenals during the Spanish Civil War (by both sides). Most of these did not have any markings on them to prevent the manufacturing location from being identified.
Since the age of the ammo you tried is unknown, suggest you pick up a box of new commerial ammo and test fire it again. If it too splits, you most likely have a bulged chamber. If so, you will need to decide if it is worth a new barrel to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWARREN123

I believe I want one. A Mauser in 7.62X51mm is my dream.

It was mine too. Due to a long passion for Spanish rifles, decided to make a scout rifle from a FR-8, which was already in 7.62x51. This would allow me to use the strong Model 98 action, and have the ability to do fast reloads using strippers, one of the features the late Mr Cooper also wanted in his scouts. I also kept the original barrel steps and flash suppressor, just to give it a little military flair.
Mounted a 2 3/4 power Burris Scout scope. She prefers Winchester 150 factory loads and will keep three of them in 1.5 moa. Probably would do better with more glass or younger eyes.
Can't believe I haven't got rid of the steel butt plate yet!

couchtr26 · 02-06-2007, 11:21 PM

Quick question how are those Spanish rechambered mausers? I've read some bad opinions of them. Too much power for the rifle or something of that nature. They do seem interesting though at $130 or so.

mt3030 · 02-07-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by couchtr26

....Quick question how are those Spanish rechambered mausers? I've read some bad opinions of them...

I have read references which question the rebarreling of the mod93/mod16/mod FR-7 to the 7.62x51 caliber. All of the formentioned rifles were originally chambered for the 7x57, which origanally operated well below the pressures of the NATO round. They also lacked the third "safety " (not "locking") lug that the mod 98 introduced. Still, this rebarreling was done to thousands of these rifles. If some have failed, it would be hard to prove if it was do to poor judgement of the rebarreling, or if just due to the many other causes: Age, metal fatague, poor wartime production, overloads(handloads), abuse, etc. I have played with or around many of these older rifles. I have never witnessed or spoke first hand to a witness of a catastrophic failure. I'm sure they have happened. I would suggest anyone concerned have their rifle, especially the locking lugs, examined by a 'Smith. He'll know what to look for. But that should go for any mil sup rifle that is new to a shooter.
It's a trade off. If you want to enjoy the more experienced toys (guns, cars or motorcycles), then you have maintenance issues, like having them examined and not pushing them. Or you get the newer toys, push them hard, and enjoy the knowledge that they might be more forgiving. Maybe.
I love my old mausers and enfields. I know they have limitations, and I can enjoy them for their workmanship. Remember, most are over 100 years old. (My favorite mauser is the mod 91!) What other item do we find with that age, designed to operate with that kind of internal pressures, and used in an violent environment like warfare, that we can use into the next several generations! (If the government permits it.)

Big Dog · 02-07-2007, 04:44 AM

Having read a lot of info on these rifles, I can find NO evidence of catastrophic failure attributed to failure of the weapon with Surplus or factory ammo. Some testing was done many years back when the first big importation of M1916's was done - they finally failed at 90,000+ pressures - well over SAAMI spec for ANY .308 or 7.62X51 load!
Still, it's up to the owner as to whether he trusts his rifle.

Also, it seems those horror stories of "soft Spanish steel" were a myth. My Spanish M43 has been soldiering on for thirty years, shooting both Surplus 8mm and the commercial loads - never a sign of lug setback or other problems.
I do check my rifles regularly, just to be safe.

couchtr26 · 02-07-2007, 02:56 PM

Thanks, for the info. I read a lot on them but it is oft times hard to get passed the information (sometimes inaccurate speculation) or personal bias. I find personal bias rings through in a lot about military firearms. Either they are not liked or someone bought something for more money and is a little upset so speaks poorly of the rifle. However, I always like owner experience it usually gives you a fair idea. One where poor information is found often is in the Carcano rifles. Anyway, again thanks for the info I may need to take the plunge into my first Spanish rifle.

12-02-2006, 09:53 AM	#1
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,069 Trader Rating: (0)	Spanish M1916 Guardia Civil Got my new Spanish Mauser! She's a nice M1916 Guardia Civil chambered in 7.62X51. Wood is very good, with enough dings to have character but still looking good. Metal is mostly blued, excellent on the receiver and barrel, more worn on the floorplate and bands. Bolt is shiny white/chrome - beautiful! It came with a nice leather sling showing some shelf wear and green grundge on the buckle, and a muzzle cap. I also ordered a bayonet, though it shows a lot of wear! German markings on the bayo, so it may not actually be for this rifle - have to research this. Shooting was good. I used Spanish Santa Barbara 7.62X51 dated 1981 - the ammo this rifle is designed for. At 50 yards, I was shooting an easy two inch group, grouped around the bullseye - on the target above the one I aimed on. Shooting about a foot high, but grouping good. At 100 yards, I'm above and off target. Well, the rear sight is set for 300 meters minimum - so I expect it to shoot high. It was cold and windy this morning, so I didn't stay long. Just wanted to try it out. When the weather is better, I'll see what it can really do! So far, I'm pleased! __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

12-02-2006, 09:07 PM	#3
Full MeTal Jack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,417 Trader Rating: (0)	Nice one "Bigs". Where did you buy it from? I've been looking at Samco, they advertise in Very Good condition. Do you think it will shoot better with different ammo? ON a scale of 1-10, what would be your recomendaton on purchasing one? When you pull the bolt all the way back does it have a lot of side to side play or wobble? __________________ [IMG]http://img287.echo.cx/img287/63/9130110x100a4vb.jpg Last edited by Full MeTal Jack; 12-02-2006 at 09:10 PM.

12-02-2006, 10:07 PM	#4
devil8975 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0)	I've got one of those myself. im itching to try the new low recoil loads from federal. theyd be perfect for the light action in these little rifles Last edited by devil8975; 12-02-2006 at 10:20 PM.

12-02-2006, 10:19 PM	#5
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,760 Trader Rating: (0)	Had one back in the late 80's wish I still had it, didn't know what I had back then. Nice gun. __________________

12-03-2006, 07:36 AM	#6
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,069 Trader Rating: (0)	FMJ, the bolt is not loose like some Mausers, but not real tight either. The trigger is very nice for a two-stage military type - some take-up, then breaks clean, not too heavy at all. Bore is mirror bright! Next time out, I'll try the Hirtenberger and Aussie 7.62X51 in it. The FR8 and CETME like those over the Spanish SB. It would be a good rifle to reload for, making fairly light loads. The front sight was straight, unlike the one on my buddy's M1916. His shoots far tot he left! Mine is dead-on in windage. It came with a leather sling that looks unissued - shelf-storage dirt and grunge, but very good condition. Also has a clip-on muzzle protector. We ordered from Samco, and they took their sweet time shipping it. But, it was worth the wait! Barrel and receiver numbers match, but the trigger guard/mag housing and bolt are different numbers. I guess on these old rifles, getting all-matching would be a real fluke. Another $19.99 for the very-well-used bayonet. Wood handles are beat up, and the steel scabbard is worn and dented. German company stamped on the blade - "WEYERSBERG KIRSCHBAUM & Co SOLINGEN". Quite different guard and pommel than my Yugo Mauser bayonet - it won't fit the standard M98 rifles, just the earlier small ring Mauser. $129.95 for the rifle - not a bad deal at all! I'm pleased. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

12-02-2006, 06:14 PM	#2
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 750 Trader Rating: (0)	I believe I want one. A Mauser in 7.62X51mm is my dream.

12-03-2006, 12:32 PM	#7
Full MeTal Jack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,417 Trader Rating: (0)	I was thinking of buying another K-31 for my Christmas present. Not sure if Samco accepts C&Rs but, no problem. A $15 commission on sale from local FFL is ok. Had one about 10 years ago that grouped about 10" at 25 yards. P-O-S!!! I like the way the rifle feels and handles. Seems well balanced. Thanks BD PS, I'm trying to talk my cousin out of his 43 Spanish sporterized mauser. Just the stock was butchered. __________________ [IMG]http://img287.echo.cx/img287/63/9130110x100a4vb.jpg

12-29-2006, 07:46 PM	#8
Full MeTal Jack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,417 Trader Rating: (0)	big Dog. I changed my mind. Instead of buying another rifle, for the same price I had to continue with one of my projects. I have a Parker Hale heavy barrel on a 1922 mauser action. Bought a Midnight laminated Fagen F54 barrel channel stock. I have almost enough rifles __________________ [IMG]http://img287.echo.cx/img287/63/9130110x100a4vb.jpg

12-29-2006, 09:50 PM	#9
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 343 Trader Rating: (0)	Very nice Big Dog. Good luck with it. I still haven't had the FR-7 out to the range yet, so nothing new to report. I'll have to keep an eye out for that ammo you used and were looking for for the FR-7.

01-13-2007, 06:47 PM	#10
hoots Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4 Trader Rating: (0)	First post. Great site...lots of good info here. Big Dog, where did you order your bayonet and sling? I've just "inherited" what appears to be an old 7mm short Mauser. I think it's a 1916. It looks very similar to yours but there are no markings anywhere on it that indicate a Guardia Civil model. At any rate, I'd like to get a proper sling, cleaning rod, and bayonet. The price is right on this bayonet at sportsmansguide (Used Yugo Mil. Mauser M48 Bayonet With Scabbard, Military Surplus, Brand Not Specified, Collectible Blued Steel Blade Razor Sharp Knife Military at Sportsman's Guide) but they won't ship "cutlery" to Texas. Any leads? Also, I fired about 10 rounds through it when I picked it up. The ammo was pretty old Remington 7mm Mauser (175 grain, "soft point"). The rifle fired well, but I noticed that about half of the spent casings had a 1/2 inch longitudinal tear down the side originating at the projectile end. Could this be caused by old ammo or do I have a breach problem? Thanks for any pointers!

01-14-2007, 05:55 PM	#11
Full MeTal Jack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,417 Trader Rating: (0)	Used Yugo Mil. Mauser® M48 Bayonet with Scabbard Dang! SG can't ship long blade knives to Texas. It must be the OJ LAW. __________________ [IMG]http://img287.echo.cx/img287/63/9130110x100a4vb.jpg

01-16-2007, 07:36 AM	#12
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,069 Trader Rating: (0)	Hoots, the sling and bayo came with it from Samco Global Sales - though I did have to pay extra for the bayo. It uses a different style of mounting than the later '98 Mausers - the M48 bayo WILL NOT fit the M1916 or earlier small-ring Mauser rifles. I tried too. The spacing between the barrel and bayo lug are different. So, you do need the correct bayo. Samco sells these separately though. Shipping to Texas though - that I can't help you with. Bummer! The issue sling is very short and stiff - not a proper 'shooting sling' like the M1903 Springfield has. This is just a carry strap. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

01-17-2007, 02:05 AM	#13
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,356 Trader Rating: (0)	That's one I've NEVER heard of Hoots. We have some of the most lenient weapons laws in the U.S. so I'm thinking it might just be S.G. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

01-20-2007, 06:37 PM	#14
hoots Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4 Trader Rating: (0)	toolman, agreed. It's an SG policy...no idea why though.

01-21-2007, 05:34 AM	#15
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,069 Trader Rating: (0)	I would guess that someone ordered a knife from SG, then went out and did a dastardly deed - SG might have gotten burned in court action. Lots of idiots try to blame the vendors for the criminals actions these days. So, SG tries to tailor their shipping to each state's particular laws and regs. Most other vendors just don't sell knives to a few less-than-free states - seems to work better IMHO. If possible, you could have a family member in another state receive the goods, then you get it when you visit them. Or find another vendor who will ship to you. Mauser bayonets aren't that scarce. Even ebay could be a good possibility! __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

02-06-2007, 11:21 PM	#17
couchtr26 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 105 Trader Rating: (0)	Quick question how are those Spanish rechambered mausers? I've read some bad opinions of them. Too much power for the rifle or something of that nature. They do seem interesting though at $130 or so.

02-07-2007, 04:44 AM	#19
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,069 Trader Rating: (0)	Having read a lot of info on these rifles, I can find NO evidence of catastrophic failure attributed to failure of the weapon with Surplus or factory ammo. Some testing was done many years back when the first big importation of M1916's was done - they finally failed at 90,000+ pressures - well over SAAMI spec for ANY .308 or 7.62X51 load! Still, it's up to the owner as to whether he trusts his rifle. Also, it seems those horror stories of "soft Spanish steel" were a myth. My Spanish M43 has been soldiering on for thirty years, shooting both Surplus 8mm and the commercial loads - never a sign of lug setback or other problems. I do check my rifles regularly, just to be safe. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

02-07-2007, 02:56 PM	#20
couchtr26 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 105 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks, for the info. I read a lot on them but it is oft times hard to get passed the information (sometimes inaccurate speculation) or personal bias. I find personal bias rings through in a lot about military firearms. Either they are not liked or someone bought something for more money and is a little upset so speaks poorly of the rifle. However, I always like owner experience it usually gives you a fair idea. One where poor information is found often is in the Carcano rifles. Anyway, again thanks for the info I may need to take the plunge into my first Spanish rifle.