M38 ?

willys · 01-30-2003, 09:12 PM

I think it is M38. I want to build a rifle from a Mauser action. It the 38 the same as a GEW, or similar? What would be the best and cheapest action to get?

thanks
Joe

Big Dog · 01-31-2003, 06:03 AM

The Turk M38 isn't a specific model, rather an arsenal rebuild standard applied to many old rifles that were in Turkish service - as such there are many variations to be found.

I would use a Czech Vz24 or Yugo M48 for a Sporter conversion, but that's personal preference.
Any way you go, it's not gonna be cheap if it's done right.

Dale · 01-31-2003, 07:14 AM

Willys,

Are you referring to a Turkish 1888/38 Commision rifle that is sometimes referred to as a Gewher?

If so, be very careful of these rifles.

I have one that, from he outward appearance, is in very good condition. After buying it with the understanding that it was a fine shooting gun I since learned of somewhat disturbing information.

I had the gun checked out by three reputable gunsmiths who say the gun may not be safe to fire. I had a guy, at a recent gun show, who claimed he had extensive knowledge of the rifles and he claimed it WAS safe to fire.

Perhaps some history might be useful.

The (18)88/38 action was sometimes made for the Turks by the Germans (hence the referrence to Gewher) and some say that Turkey made some of their own outright. The original rifle was made with a bullet diameter of .316 or .318 (the exact one escapes me at the moment) and then the gun receiver and barrels were re-worked for a bullet diameter of .323 in, and around, 1938 (hence the '38' designation).

I understand that the popular belief is that the guns made by Turkey often lacked the tempered high quality steel in their receivers and barrels and are subject to damage from the higher pressure ammo made way back when. One fer sure sign the gun is Turkish made is the crescent moon on top of the receiver and many will be marked with ANK on the left of the moon and ARA on the right side. This stands for the factory in Ankara, Turkey where they were made.

Also, some of the guns missed the conversion and still remain in the condition meant for the smaller diameter bullet.....not many guns....but there are some out there.

I would suggest that if you intent to convert your gun have the barrel slugged by someone who knows what they are doing. This simply entails taking a modern .323 diamter bullet and inserting in the chamber and driving it the length of the barrel. The smith can tell by the riflings if the barrel is re-worked for the .323 bullet or not.

At any rate would suggest against shooting the older high pressured ammo and stick with lower pressured handloads (although some say the newer commercial 8MM ammo is low enough in pressure as not to worry....but, I don't know......). I have still not fired my Turk and I'm not sure I want to risk my life over any gun.

The action is not a true Mauser action although the gun is referred to one in the Mauser circles.

I concur with Big Dog's recommendation of going with a Yugo M48 or 48A. These are high quality Mauser actions and the bolt is alread made bent in the event you want to add a scope. You might also look into a K98 for conversion.

There are other options that might cost you more in the long run, such as the 6.5 Swedish Mauser but I see the future of the Swede being that it's going to get scarcer and the price is constantly going up on them. I don't think I'd want to destroy the value of either of my Swedes by altering them. On the other hand the M48s, VZ24s and K98s are a dime a dozen rght now and there are so many of them are out there I don't see any increasing value in their futures.

Good luck, Willys, and let us know how it goes.

willys · 01-31-2003, 09:21 PM

Thanks for all the info. I guess I won't be using the Turkish rifle.

Joe

JAMES · 02-01-2003, 11:25 PM

Willys,

I concur with Big Dog and Dale. If you want to build a custom Mauser, the recommendations that they have made would be the best bet.

There's really nothing wrong with the Turk ANKARA Mausers unless you decide that you would like to rebarrel one of them with an aftermarket chambered/threaded barrel. They are built on large ring Mauser actions (good thing), but are threaded for small ring barrels (neither good, nor bad, just strange). If you had intended to have a new barrel threaded/chambered and installed by a Gunsmith anyway, that won't matter.

ReRide · 02-09-2003, 07:24 PM

I've got a turk from ANKARA 1938 i beleive it is. I had a Midway USA barrel in .22-250 put on it. We had to turn down the shank to small ring size but she does shoot!!!!!!!
NOT SORRY ONE BIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JAMES · 02-10-2003, 06:22 PM

Good deal, ReRide! Sounds like a neat one. A Varmint Turk! Perhaps we should convert some more Turks just like yours and send them back to Turkey (so they can use them on those Varmints down south a ways....)

Did it cost much to have it turned down and rethreaded?

dhermesc · 02-11-2003, 04:07 PM

The smith I used put a 243 barrel on a Turk and hollowed out the stock for $150.00. I went a little cheap, used barrel he had in stock (extremely heavy, almost bull barrel), the bolt was already turned down and the receiver was tapped for a scope. No sights where put on the barrel. He did reblue the barrel and action, looks OK, shoots great. I know he had to turn the barrel down and rethread to fit the action. Not to bad when I picked the rifle up for $40.00, bad head space.

JAMES · 02-11-2003, 08:18 PM

That's great to hear. I happen to have a Remington .243 barrel in the back corner of the cabinet, and I had considered having it turned down and mounted on a Turk one day. Very good info, dhermesc. Thanks.

01-30-2003, 09:12 PM	#1
willys Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 64	M38 ? I think it is M38. I want to build a rifle from a Mauser action. It the 38 the same as a GEW, or similar? What would be the best and cheapest action to get? thanks Joe

01-31-2003, 06:03 AM	#2
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,642	The Turk M38 isn't a specific model, rather an arsenal rebuild standard applied to many old rifles that were in Turkish service - as such there are many variations to be found. I would use a Czech Vz24 or Yugo M48 for a Sporter conversion, but that's personal preference. Any way you go, it's not gonna be cheap if it's done right. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

01-31-2003, 07:14 AM	#3
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Willys, Are you referring to a Turkish 1888/38 Commision rifle that is sometimes referred to as a Gewher? If so, be very careful of these rifles. I have one that, from he outward appearance, is in very good condition. After buying it with the understanding that it was a fine shooting gun I since learned of somewhat disturbing information. I had the gun checked out by three reputable gunsmiths who say the gun may not be safe to fire. I had a guy, at a recent gun show, who claimed he had extensive knowledge of the rifles and he claimed it WAS safe to fire. Perhaps some history might be useful. The (18)88/38 action was sometimes made for the Turks by the Germans (hence the referrence to Gewher) and some say that Turkey made some of their own outright. The original rifle was made with a bullet diameter of .316 or .318 (the exact one escapes me at the moment) and then the gun receiver and barrels were re-worked for a bullet diameter of .323 in, and around, 1938 (hence the '38' designation). I understand that the popular belief is that the guns made by Turkey often lacked the tempered high quality steel in their receivers and barrels and are subject to damage from the higher pressure ammo made way back when. One fer sure sign the gun is Turkish made is the crescent moon on top of the receiver and many will be marked with ANK on the left of the moon and ARA on the right side. This stands for the factory in Ankara, Turkey where they were made. Also, some of the guns missed the conversion and still remain in the condition meant for the smaller diameter bullet.....not many guns....but there are some out there. I would suggest that if you intent to convert your gun have the barrel slugged by someone who knows what they are doing. This simply entails taking a modern .323 diamter bullet and inserting in the chamber and driving it the length of the barrel. The smith can tell by the riflings if the barrel is re-worked for the .323 bullet or not. At any rate would suggest against shooting the older high pressured ammo and stick with lower pressured handloads (although some say the newer commercial 8MM ammo is low enough in pressure as not to worry....but, I don't know......). I have still not fired my Turk and I'm not sure I want to risk my life over any gun. The action is not a true Mauser action although the gun is referred to one in the Mauser circles. I concur with Big Dog's recommendation of going with a Yugo M48 or 48A. These are high quality Mauser actions and the bolt is alread made bent in the event you want to add a scope. You might also look into a K98 for conversion. There are other options that might cost you more in the long run, such as the 6.5 Swedish Mauser but I see the future of the Swede being that it's going to get scarcer and the price is constantly going up on them. I don't think I'd want to destroy the value of either of my Swedes by altering them. On the other hand the M48s, VZ24s and K98s are a dime a dozen rght now and there are so many of them are out there I don't see any increasing value in their futures. Good luck, Willys, and let us know how it goes. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

02-09-2003, 07:24 PM	#6
ReRide Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nebr Posts: 29	rebarrel that turk!!!!!!!!! I've got a turk from ANKARA 1938 i beleive it is. I had a Midway USA barrel in .22-250 put on it. We had to turn down the shank to small ring size but she does shoot!!!!!!! NOT SORRY ONE BIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

02-11-2003, 04:07 PM	#8
dhermesc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: East Central Kansas Posts: 1,769	The smith I used put a 243 barrel on a Turk and hollowed out the stock for $150.00. I went a little cheap, used barrel he had in stock (extremely heavy, almost bull barrel), the bolt was already turned down and the receiver was tapped for a scope. No sights where put on the barrel. He did reblue the barrel and action, looks OK, shoots great. I know he had to turn the barrel down and rethread to fit the action. Not to bad when I picked the rifle up for $40.00, bad head space. __________________ Liberty is for those that claim it.

01-31-2003, 09:21 PM	#4
willys Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 64	Thanks for all the info. I guess I won't be using the Turkish rifle. Joe

02-01-2003, 11:25 PM	#5
JAMES Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: OKLAHOMA Posts: 575	Willys, I concur with Big Dog and Dale. If you want to build a custom Mauser, the recommendations that they have made would be the best bet. There's really nothing wrong with the Turk ANKARA Mausers unless you decide that you would like to rebarrel one of them with an aftermarket chambered/threaded barrel. They are built on large ring Mauser actions (good thing), but are threaded for small ring barrels (neither good, nor bad, just strange). If you had intended to have a new barrel threaded/chambered and installed by a Gunsmith anyway, that won't matter.

02-10-2003, 06:22 PM	#7
JAMES Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: OKLAHOMA Posts: 575	Good deal, ReRide! Sounds like a neat one. A Varmint Turk! Perhaps we should convert some more Turks just like yours and send them back to Turkey (so they can use them on those Varmints down south a ways....) Did it cost much to have it turned down and rethreaded?

02-11-2003, 08:18 PM	#9
JAMES Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: OKLAHOMA Posts: 575	That's great to hear. I happen to have a Remington .243 barrel in the back corner of the cabinet, and I had considered having it turned down and mounted on a Turk one day. Very good info, dhermesc. Thanks.