Hornady 7.62x54r HRN3130G Bullet Pics and Need H4350 Data..?
Hello,
I figured I'd start a new thread as the old one was about another powder. I want to be clear and might post this on other boards as well to get a large amount of feedback for H4350.
Here are the bullets I received:
Literally everyone was out of my favorite powder, and the gunstore is closed today and tomorrow.
I had to settle for H4350 from the hardware store. It was the only rifle powder anywhere! I don't know what's going on.
Anyway, got to looking and it seems this is a sloooow powder, and that's OK as I have a long barrel.
Hodgdon lists 51 grains as a starting charge. This is a bit more (about five grains) than the starting charge with my favorite powder.
Additionally, with a COAL of 2.975, the data claims a bit over 2400fps. I'd like to kick it back to 2200fps or so, if the powder will let me. Hodgdon lists some hot loads for the Mosin-Nagant, and some of their starting loads are actually hotter than other companies' MAX loads!
Whichever, I bumped the bullet out to a COAL of about 3.210". Reckon that extra 0.235" will give me about 100fps reduced velocity?
Most of the data I can find in my manuals are the IMR4350, and I'll not substitute.
As you can see in the picture, a lot of my manuals are somewhat dated. I need to buy a new one or three.
So, do you folks have any thoughts on the bullets? How about the loads with H4350?
I use 50 grains of H4350 in my x54R with a 180 grain bullet, it is very accurate and does not punish you at all, my OAL is 3.000" if I were you I would load at 51 gr and have a ball!
Well....
Bullet manufacturers, esp. Sierra, are ultra conservative.
The 51 grain starting charge for the 180 grain bullet should be safe enough to start with, you're using a slightly lighter bullet anyway. The data is based on .308 bullets which I never understood, but so long as you don't have an undersized groove dia. barrel there shouldn't be any pressure issues.
Use your chrono to estimate pressures based on velocity. You've reloaded before, just start low and work up. H4350 and IMR 4350 are nearly identical in burn rate: Burn Rate
H4350 is bit slow for the 174 grain bullet IMO. I use it for 150 grain pills in my 7mm.-08 long range loads. Doesn't mean it won't work, just be careful if approaching max that you may be compressing the load. You'll get heavier recoil with the slower powders as well.
Do you vary the distance to the lands (with a comparator), or do you just load to max OAL?
I figured I'd start a new thread as the old one was about another powder. I want to be clear and might post this on other boards as well to get a large amount of feedback for H4350.
Here are the bullets I received:
Literally everyone was out of my favorite powder, and the gunstore is closed today and tomorrow.
I had to settle for H4350 from the hardware store. It was the only rifle powder anywhere! I don't know what's going on.
Anyway, got to looking and it seems this is a sloooow powder, and that's OK as I have a long barrel.
Hodgdon lists 51 grains as a starting charge. This is a bit more (about five grains) than the starting charge with my favorite powder.
Additionally, with a COAL of 2.975, the data claims a bit over 2400fps. I'd like to kick it back to 2200fps or so, if the powder will let me. Hodgdon lists some hot loads for the Mosin-Nagant, and some of their starting loads are actually hotter than other companies' MAX loads!
Whichever, I bumped the bullet out to a COAL of about 3.210". Reckon that extra 0.235" will give me about 100fps reduced velocity?
Most of the data I can find in my manuals are the IMR4350, and I'll not substitute.
As you can see in the picture, a lot of my manuals are somewhat dated. I need to buy a new one or three.
So, do you folks have any thoughts on the bullets? How about the loads with H4350?
Thanks!
Josh
Hodgdon also lists .308 bullets, so the starting load you have could be unsafe.
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Thanks all. I'll load up five or 10 tonight or tomorrow and see what happens. I'll work from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobnpr
Well....
Doesn't mean it won't work, just be careful if approaching max that you may be compressing the load. You'll get heavier recoil with the slower powders as well.
Do you vary the distance to the lands (with a comparator), or do you just load to max OAL?
Hodgdon does list max as a compressed load, 55grns. I don't like compressed loads, and will likely stick near the 51grn starting load they show.
I don't have a comparator. I keep meaning to build one but I never get the time. It works well fro me to start near max COAL and work back until I find the sweet spot.
In the case of the 7.62x54R, I load to the COAL of the 7N1 sniper load (3.11 to 3.23") when I can, usually starting at 3.21" or so to allow some wiggle room.
I figure the Russians played with this load to get it right in their chambers, an they know where the lead ends and the rifling starts.
If you look at other loads of that weight range, the sniper load is quite a bit longer, most stopping at 3".
Hodgdon also lists .308 bullets, so the starting load you have could be unsafe.
I found 51 grains as a starting load with 0.310" to .312" bullets since posting this. It appears that 51 grains is the universal starting load in this weight range in this caliber.
Max is different, but 51 grains is near compressed as is. I don't like compressed charges even if they are safe, so I think I'll find an accuracy load by 52.5 grains or drop the powder.
I've shot some really hot loads through this rifle, and they were all approved by Hodgdon over the phone. They never exceeded Hodgdon's max, but did exceed 3000fps. They were made this way to get the flattest trajectory possible for coyotes at around 200 yards.
OK folks, so I loaded 10 rounds of the following:
Winchester/S&B brass, annealed, fireformed, and neck-sized with a o.308 resizing/decapping pin in the Lee die.
Federal LRPs. I am out of the "match" and got the match on discontinued discount, so there are no more to be had, at least not until the gunstore opens back up Thursday.
174 grain BTHP Hornady Match. Seating is around 3.14"-3.21". I had a dummy load (the one in the pic) at 3.21" so I could set the die quickly. I was coming out over spec though, and cranked the seating die down a little. Then I remembered that in S&B/Winchester cases, the primer protrudes just a little bit, not really visible, and not enough to be unsafe! So the dummy cartridge says I'm at 3.14", which is about smack dab in the middle of the range for the 7n1 sniper round (3.11" to 3.23"). I'm a bit over the 2.975" spec of the load, so I'm going to call it good.
The H4350, measured to exactly 51 grains. I mean, I was dipping out individual granules of powder to get it at 51 exactly.
I figure these are as close to match rounds as one can get with standard primers.
The type of target it needs to beat is this:
Sierra soft point 150 grain o.311", 45 grains Varget, prone, front rest, no rear rest, 75 or 80 yards.
If I can overcome my tendency to shift NPOA in the middle of a string of fire, and remember to wait until I'm fully at NRP to shoot (see flier!), then we can see how good this stuff is, or if I'm wasting money.
By the way, does anyone know what the terminal ballistics for this bullet are? I would think being match it would either not expand, or shatter in the first couple inches. It's being considered for a fur-getting bullet.
LEE data, ever conservative, lists the MIN as 42.0 grains and MAX as 47.0 grains of H4350, with MAX velocity of 2,460FPS. They also list a shorter OAL of 2.757 for "jacketed bullet", no brand given.
I haven't loaded H4350 in this caliber yet, but do like it in 8mm Mauser.
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LEE data, ever conservative, lists the MIN as 42.0 grains and MAX as 47.0 grains of H4350, with MAX velocity of 2,460FPS. They also list a shorter OAL of 2.757 for "jacketed bullet", no brand given.
I haven't loaded H4350 in this caliber yet, but do like it in 8mm Mauser.
Hi Big Dog,
That helps a lot. I don't have a Lee manual in my library. That's one I always neglected to get.
With a dead rest off of a bench with front and rear i can duplicate that group w/o the flyer. I hope you have good luck.
That should have been one ragged hole. I know exactly where I messed up.
As I gain experience and get older, I find that I can see the tiny errors I make and correct them, while when I was younger I'd have called this a bad load.
By the way, does anyone know what the terminal ballistics for this bullet are? I would think being match it would either not expand, or shatter in the first couple inches. It's being considered for a fur-getting bullet.
Thanks!
Josh
That bullet appears to be a special run for Graf's, as it's not listed on Hornady's website, and the box you pictured says so...
The bullet design/ogive looks very similar to the 174 SMK.
There are some that hunt with HPBT's, but it is generally not recommended. Far as "fur-getting", they're not designed as an expanding bullet. Best bet would be to go to the local grocery, buy some Knox gelatin- whip up a batch of ballistic gelatin and send a round into it.
Hodgdon also lists .308 bullets, so the starting load you have could be unsafe.
I believe the Hodgdon data was shot in a .308 pressure barrel. Most of the available data (like Sierra) was shot in original arms where no pressure measurements could be made. No wonder most data is quite conservative and all over the place.
As for LEE, I have no idea. For some reason they recommend .308 bullets too. Perhaps thier lawyers were concerned that somebody would have a .308 groove barrel...
Personally, I have a lot of confidence with the Hodgdon data if one shoots bullets that match the groove diameter of your particular rifle.
This has become a really excellent thread. Please keep us informed of your progress Josh!
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Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!
Did you know that, if you accidentally load long, the bullet will contact the rifling (at about 3.035 COAL?)
Further, it will pull the bullet out and lead you to clean the action of the rifle.
This is why I do a dry run of loaded rounds prior to shooting. Looks like, at 3.023, I'm sitting right around 0.010" off the lands, right where I want to be!
I'm surprised this thing wasn't converted to a sniper. It really is a laser!
Here is the last target of the day:
I'm not calling any fliers. I flinched on a couple, pure and simple. After 20 rounds prone I started to HURT! I grew up shooting slug guns from a picnic table or standing and going prone with this load reminds me of that, a little.
The hard rubber butt pad is on there to extend LOP, not to absorb recoil.
I was finding that, with the other colors on that paper, I was seeing the black squares very easily. I think next time I'll make an upside-down "T", all black, to shoot at.
The OAL at which the bullet will contact the lands depends on the weight and whether it's a secant or tangent ogive bullet. I've not compared the one I actually shoot to the other two I don't, but there is obviously going to be variations in chambers as well.
There aren't currently any VLD bullets in .311/.312 because they're not considered long range calibers, but if there were- they could be loaded significantly longer without hitting the rifling.
I figured I'd start a new thread as the old one was about another powder. I want to be clear and might post this on other boards as well to get a large amount of feedback for H4350.
Here are the bullets I received:
Literally everyone was out of my favorite powder, and the gunstore is closed today and tomorrow.
I had to settle for H4350 from the hardware store. It was the only rifle powder anywhere! I don't know what's going on.
Anyway, got to looking and it seems this is a sloooow powder, and that's OK as I have a long barrel.
Hodgdon lists 51 grains as a starting charge. This is a bit more (about five grains) than the starting charge with my favorite powder.
Additionally, with a COAL of 2.975, the data claims a bit over 2400fps. I'd like to kick it back to 2200fps or so, if the powder will let me. Hodgdon lists some hot loads for the Mosin-Nagant, and some of their starting loads are actually hotter than other companies' MAX loads!
Whichever, I bumped the bullet out to a COAL of about 3.210". Reckon that extra 0.235" will give me about 100fps reduced velocity?
Most of the data I can find in my manuals are the IMR4350, and I'll not substitute.
As you can see in the picture, a lot of my manuals are somewhat dated. I need to buy a new one or three.
So, do you folks have any thoughts on the bullets? How about the loads with H4350?
Thanks!
Josh
I don't know. The use of .312" bullets precludes using the Hodgdon web site loading guide as all their bullets are .308". Rock, hard place.
__________________
People think I'm paranoid because I own guns. If I own guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?
Well, 51 grains shows no pressure signs. In fact, if anything, it's a bit low (primers backed just a little).
I shoot a Gewehr 88/05 all the time. Due to the max operating pressure, I have to handload. I use a o.323" bullet. The chamber is o.323" and the barrel is o.318".
This Mosin's bore slugs to o.309" in the grooves. o.003" isn't anything to worry about; going above o.005" over is when you start to worry.
The nice thing about this rifle is that it shoots about as well using o.308", o.310", o.311", or o.312" bullets!
No rifle I've ever loaded for has ever been normal, and my main concern is not being familiar with the properties of very slow powder.
For example, Hodgdon's website lists 51 grains to start, and this is fine. However, Lee's starting load is 42 grains with a max under Hodgdon's starting load!
I've always heard not to go below starting loads with this powder.
I do not know what the starting load is! I never go to max, and I'm more concerned about going TOO LOW!
Is GOING TOO LOW a concern here?
Thanks,
Josh
P.S. A certain gunsmithing school loaded up a Mosin cartridge full of Bullseye. They didn't get the action to fail catastrophically, but it did finally stretch the receiver a bit!
You can find this on Google. These are overbuilt just like almost every other Russian machine! Josh
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