Freakish Conversion to 45-70

BattleRifleG3 · 05-05-2004, 11:17 PM

I've wanted a 45-70 bolt gun that has decent capacity (ie 4-5, not 2 like the Gibbs SMLE conversions) and figured maybe the Mosin Nagant is the best choice due to its magazine interruptor and bolt face.

The bolt face would take a little bit of lathe work, with its inner face turned flat, taken 0.007" deeper, and opened up 0.02" in radius.

Am I correct that the barrel would need to be threaded for the Mosin action? Could the receiver possibly have the threads turned off and have the barrel pressed and pinned instead, since the 45-70 is such a low pressure round?

I'm wondering what the weakest link of this would be that would limit handloads.

Dennis · 05-08-2004, 04:27 AM

interesting idea
I dont think the mag well is wide enough for the 45-70
I dont know, it may work

colt45 · 05-08-2004, 09:14 AM

i think you might og hit something on that one, if you don't mind i may forword this on to a guy that works at "Tims custom guns" in north warren pa. he does all our really wierd custom work.
see what he thinks, i to have been looking for a carbin lenght 45/70

Shaun · 05-13-2004, 10:52 AM

BRG I would never sweat and Pin a barrel in a bolt gun --I have looked into the modification of the Nagant in the past for many calibers and the problems exist with the action not being capable of feeding large calibers like the 45-70.

You mention the Gibbs rifle and yes the enfield has greater possibilities and that is why they have chosen the enfield action for the conversion. First the magazines are capable of feeding Large magnums to fat rimmed cases and the bolt faces are conducive to being worked with easily or not at all for many of the conversions. The nice thing about a good bolt gun in the 45-70 is that you can run the 458 pressures and have a real nice all around rifle.

About the only calibers we have actually planned for freakish conversion on the Nagant action are using cases with similiar case rim diameter. Barrels are not an issue since many companies like Montana Rifle Barrels can thread for anything.

Clark · 05-13-2004, 02:06 PM

I have converted a 91/30 to 45/70.
I have only shot it as a single shot.
I used a Shilen 28" barrel blank, and the rifle weighs 17 pounds with the scope.

Preparring the barrel is different from a Mauser:
1) The tread is a standard 60 degrees instead of 55.
2) The exractor releif must be cut on the breech face of the rifle.
picture of the 91/30 converted to 45/70 with a fat barrel

Shaun · 05-13-2004, 02:17 PM

Thanks for the info I stand corrected Clark - post some pictures

Clark · 05-13-2004, 02:28 PM

I don't think there is any correction to your post.
I did have to grind a special tool to change the bolt face for the thicker and larger rim diameter.

milling the extractor relief

more milling, this time at 45 degrees

cutting threads

Shaun · 05-13-2004, 02:52 PM

is the rifle a finished product that you have pictures of

Clark · 05-13-2004, 03:56 PM

Whoops!

here is a pic of the whole rifle

Shaun · 05-13-2004, 04:28 PM

Looks like a very heavy rifle - the pic's show you have access to some expensive tools

BattleRifleG3 · 05-14-2004, 01:40 PM

I tried a 45-70 in my Mosin yesterday and it seems the difference between a single shot Mosin like yours and one that feeds through the internal mag would be to adapt the mag. It appears as though a set of matching blocks and a press or hammer would do the trick. Thoughts, maybe?

Clark · 05-14-2004, 02:25 PM

What made me give up, was seeing the dent that the Finns put in the magazine to get 7.62x54R cartridges to feed better. Knowing that it is much harder to get a staight wall cartridge to feed, I did not even try.

My rifle is so heavy, no one is going to hunt with it.

Dennis · 05-20-2004, 06:49 PM

Aww clark ya gota think "Fluteing"
It is an interesting conversion.
With a lighter tapered barrel........you may have something
If it can be done cheaply.
a Holo sight in front of the reciever ah la scout rifle style.
Ya got a pig hunting gun.
Lighter barrel
LER sight system
(Eotec or like system)
Cheap to do (I guess that rules out Eotec)
if it could be done cheaply...................
a short beater .45-70 that can knock the chit out of anything BIG
Like Bears and feral hogs and the odd locomotive on occasion...........
it could work.
Can ya shoot a .45 long colt in a .45-70 single shot?
With a bolt action could it be possible to up load the 45-70
to beyond BP pressures
Mmmmmmmmmmm now I have visions of .45-70 mosin nagants danceing in my head

Its going to take a coupla days to get over this

Clark · 05-20-2004, 08:59 PM

I have a break action .410 that I have drilled and tapped and made a scope mount for.
I use it for 45Colt.

The .410 is not accurate.
That 45/70 is not accurate [it is really a .452/70 and uses 45/70 brass, but .452 bullets, and I had no reamer. The boring bar approach is for guys more skilled than me].

The 45acp Mauser I made with another Shilen .452" barrel blank is kind of accruate.

I may thread the other end of the barrel on the 91/30 and make a 45colt rifle.

Maybe I will thread the other end of the 45acp Mauser and make a 45Win mag.

Dennis · 05-21-2004, 07:02 PM

sounds like a lot of fun experimenting.

Clark · 05-21-2004, 07:09 PM

Yeah, if I type about guns everyday on line, buy guns 12 times a year, go to the range 5 times a year, and hunt once a year, something is out of ballance. Doing some gunsmithing puts some more reality into it.

BattleRifleG3 · 05-22-2004, 12:23 AM

Just checked the cartridge specs, how about 500 S&W Magnum?

Or maybe a 35 cal wildcat based on the 7.62x54? Something with 358 Win levels of power?

BattleRifleG3 · 05-22-2004, 12:27 AM

You know, I looked at the specs and it friggin hit me that the 7.62x54 is similar in dimensions to 308. Suppose that round and others like it are too heavy for the Mosin action?

Would the lack of common replacement barrels be the only thing that prevents the Mosin from being as popular to customize as the Mauser?

Joey l mur · 02-18-2006, 03:19 AM

I like the turn down bolt it is priter than the one on my sniper of course it is arigonal how did you mount it.

troy2000 · 02-18-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis

Aww clark ya gota think "Fluteing"
It is an interesting conversion.
With a lighter tapered barrel........you may have something
If it can be done cheaply.
a Holo sight in front of the reciever ah la scout rifle style.
Ya got a pig hunting gun.
Lighter barrel
LER sight system
(Eotec or like system)
Cheap to do (I guess that rules out Eotec)
if it could be done cheaply...................
a short beater .45-70 that can knock the chit out of anything BIG
Like Bears and feral hogs and the odd locomotive on occasion...........
it could work.
Can ya shoot a .45 long colt in a .45-70 single shot?
With a bolt action could it be possible to up load the 45-70
to beyond BP pressures
Mmmmmmmmmmm now I have visions of .45-70 mosin nagants danceing in my head
Its going to take a coupla days to get over this

Do you need a special stamp in California? I'd love to mount my mailbox on one, or just use a couple for yard anchors.

05-05-2004, 11:17 PM	#1
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Freakish Conversion to 45-70 I've wanted a 45-70 bolt gun that has decent capacity (ie 4-5, not 2 like the Gibbs SMLE conversions) and figured maybe the Mosin Nagant is the best choice due to its magazine interruptor and bolt face. The bolt face would take a little bit of lathe work, with its inner face turned flat, taken 0.007" deeper, and opened up 0.02" in radius. Am I correct that the barrel would need to be threaded for the Mosin action? Could the receiver possibly have the threads turned off and have the barrel pressed and pinned instead, since the 45-70 is such a low pressure round? I'm wondering what the weakest link of this would be that would limit handloads. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

05-08-2004, 04:27 AM	#2
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,876 Trader Rating: (0)	interesting idea I dont think the mag well is wide enough for the 45-70 I dont know, it may work __________________ Submitted with respect to all

05-08-2004, 09:14 AM	#3
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898 Trader Rating: (0)	i think you might og hit something on that one, if you don't mind i may forword this on to a guy that works at "Tims custom guns" in north warren pa. he does all our really wierd custom work. see what he thinks, i to have been looking for a carbin lenght 45/70 __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden

05-13-2004, 10:52 AM	#4
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	BRG I would never sweat and Pin a barrel in a bolt gun --I have looked into the modification of the Nagant in the past for many calibers and the problems exist with the action not being capable of feeding large calibers like the 45-70. You mention the Gibbs rifle and yes the enfield has greater possibilities and that is why they have chosen the enfield action for the conversion. First the magazines are capable of feeding Large magnums to fat rimmed cases and the bolt faces are conducive to being worked with easily or not at all for many of the conversions. The nice thing about a good bolt gun in the 45-70 is that you can run the 458 pressures and have a real nice all around rifle. About the only calibers we have actually planned for freakish conversion on the Nagant action are using cases with similiar case rim diameter. Barrels are not an issue since many companies like Montana Rifle Barrels can thread for anything. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

05-13-2004, 02:17 PM	#6
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks for the info I stand corrected Clark - post some pictures __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

05-13-2004, 02:06 PM	#5
Clark Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	I have converted a 91/30 to 45/70. I have only shot it as a single shot. I used a Shilen 28" barrel blank, and the rifle weighs 17 pounds with the scope. Preparring the barrel is different from a Mauser: 1) The tread is a standard 60 degrees instead of 55. 2) The exractor releif must be cut on the breech face of the rifle. picture of the 91/30 converted to 45/70 with a fat barrel

05-13-2004, 02:28 PM	#7
Clark Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	I don't think there is any correction to your post. I did have to grind a special tool to change the bolt face for the thicker and larger rim diameter. milling the extractor relief more milling, this time at 45 degrees cutting threads

05-13-2004, 02:52 PM	#8
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	is the rifle a finished product that you have pictures of __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

05-13-2004, 03:56 PM	#9
Clark Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	Whoops! here is a pic of the whole rifle

05-13-2004, 04:28 PM	#10
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	Looks like a very heavy rifle - the pic's show you have access to some expensive tools __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

05-14-2004, 01:40 PM	#11
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	I tried a 45-70 in my Mosin yesterday and it seems the difference between a single shot Mosin like yours and one that feeds through the internal mag would be to adapt the mag. It appears as though a set of matching blocks and a press or hammer would do the trick. Thoughts, maybe? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

05-14-2004, 02:25 PM	#12
Clark Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	What made me give up, was seeing the dent that the Finns put in the magazine to get 7.62x54R cartridges to feed better. Knowing that it is much harder to get a staight wall cartridge to feed, I did not even try. My rifle is so heavy, no one is going to hunt with it.

05-20-2004, 06:49 PM	#13
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,876 Trader Rating: (0)	Aww clark ya gota think "Fluteing" It is an interesting conversion. With a lighter tapered barrel........you may have something If it can be done cheaply. a Holo sight in front of the reciever ah la scout rifle style. Ya got a pig hunting gun. Lighter barrel LER sight system (Eotec or like system) Cheap to do (I guess that rules out Eotec) if it could be done cheaply................... a short beater .45-70 that can knock the chit out of anything BIG Like Bears and feral hogs and the odd locomotive on occasion........... it could work. Can ya shoot a .45 long colt in a .45-70 single shot? With a bolt action could it be possible to up load the 45-70 to beyond BP pressures Mmmmmmmmmmm now I have visions of .45-70 mosin nagants danceing in my head Its going to take a coupla days to get over this __________________ Submitted with respect to all Last edited by Dennis; 05-21-2004 at 06:59 PM.

05-20-2004, 08:59 PM	#14
Clark Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	I have a break action .410 that I have drilled and tapped and made a scope mount for. I use it for 45Colt. The .410 is not accurate. That 45/70 is not accurate [it is really a .452/70 and uses 45/70 brass, but .452 bullets, and I had no reamer. The boring bar approach is for guys more skilled than me]. The 45acp Mauser I made with another Shilen .452" barrel blank is kind of accruate. I may thread the other end of the barrel on the 91/30 and make a 45colt rifle. Maybe I will thread the other end of the 45acp Mauser and make a 45Win mag.

05-21-2004, 07:02 PM	#15
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,876 Trader Rating: (0)	sounds like a lot of fun experimenting. __________________ Submitted with respect to all

05-21-2004, 07:09 PM	#16
Clark Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	Yeah, if I type about guns everyday on line, buy guns 12 times a year, go to the range 5 times a year, and hunt once a year, something is out of ballance. Doing some gunsmithing puts some more reality into it.

05-22-2004, 12:23 AM	#17
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Just checked the cartridge specs, how about 500 S&W Magnum? Or maybe a 35 cal wildcat based on the 7.62x54? Something with 358 Win levels of power? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

05-22-2004, 12:27 AM	#18
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	You know, I looked at the specs and it friggin hit me that the 7.62x54 is similar in dimensions to 308. Suppose that round and others like it are too heavy for the Mosin action? Would the lack of common replacement barrels be the only thing that prevents the Mosin from being as popular to customize as the Mauser? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

02-18-2006, 03:19 AM	#19
Joey l mur Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 302 Trader Rating: (0)	Cool Pic I like the turn down bolt it is priter than the one on my sniper of course it is arigonal how did you mount it.