cycling problems with my mosin m-44

7mmag6 · 06-11-2004, 08:24 PM

I took my mosin out today to shoot for the first time. Its in excellent condition, I cleaned it well and oiled it, the bolt is a bit stiff, and the safety takes a real pull to apply, but overall it looks great. Using check silver tip from J and G I shot a couple of times single shot to see how well it would work. The first 2 shots were ok but I noticed the bolt was hard to open, after the third shot I had to pry open the bolt, ouch. the empty looked ok so I tried it again and the same thing happened, I had to pry open the bolt with a screw driver to get enough leverage to open it. I have it at home now and the bolt works fine on empty, (still a bit stiff). So any ideas? the ammo is corrosive czeck, but it looks ok and is not corroded, and j&G says its good stuff. So am I out 750 rounds from bad ammo or am I over looking something?

-stumped

jerry · 06-11-2004, 08:25 PM

Get your head space checked by a competant gun smith before shooting again.

7mmag6 · 06-11-2004, 08:31 PM

the rifle was supposed to have been space checked from the dealer, so hmmmm, maybe they fib

jerry · 06-11-2004, 09:02 PM

If you had cancer, would you get a second opinion? The only other thing I can think of is ammo brand

7mmag6 · 06-11-2004, 09:32 PM

no I mean they probably did fib to me, Im taking it back to the dealer, that makes sense to me, the head space is to tight, Ive never run across the problem before, but it sounds reasonable

7mmag6 · 06-11-2004, 10:34 PM

I just dry checked it again and the rounds chamber smoothly, Im not sure if that means any thing, but if the head space is incorrect wont the bolt close hard?. I wonder if the cases are stretching, hmmmmmm

jerry · 06-11-2004, 11:36 PM

I think the only way to tell is with a head space check guage? Iv'e had this happen with out of tolerance reloads in bolt guns. Just to be safe, I'd get 'er checked.

7mmag6 · 06-12-2004, 12:09 AM

:nod:

I had my head space checked jer and they said it was empty

toolman · 06-12-2004, 12:31 AM

Hey 7Mag, that's pretty common on the M/N's but the cause is pretty iffy. Some guys say to polish the chamber, some say to disassemble and lube the camming surfaces on the bolt, some claim ammo probs, etc. etc. From my own experience, I would try 'em all one at a time until I found one that works. My 91\30 responded well to cleaning\polishing\lubing the bolt camming surfaces and bolt lugs.

jerry · 06-12-2004, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmag6

:nod:

I had my head space checked jer and they said it was empty

Funny, I have a similar problem. They tell me I have a short between the ears

Big Dog · 06-12-2004, 08:29 AM

Jerry, back in the USAF at Tyndall, we often wrote up problems as a "short between the headsets".

7MMAG6, check over on Tuco's Gunboards (gunboards.com) "Collectors" forum. They are used to hearing this problem, and can give lots of things to check - most already discussed here.

I have gotten some relief on this problem with my M39 Finn, by swapping bolts. Again, headspace should be checked. Not only did it eliminate the "sticky bolt" problem, but it improved the trigger pull. Just keep the original bolt for "collector value", if it is a matching number bolt.

Check the shell after firing - does it have any scratch marks? Sometimes the extractor can be bent, causing this problem.

Polishing the chamber is easy too. Chuck a cleaning rod section in your drill, use a .410 mop with some fine polishing compound, low speed - you'll have that chamber slicked up in no time.

Dale · 06-13-2004, 08:38 AM

For what it's worth the following is a response from another gun forum site regarding the very same issue:

"Mosin Bolt Effort
How to get the bolt effort in a Mosin lighter.

Soak the bolt parts on mineral spirits for a day or two. Clean.

Cut a coil out of the firing pin spring. Reassemble and readjust the firing pin height. Try the bolt again. Things should be better. You can take up to two coils out of the spring. Both of my Russian Mosins are set up this way. The bolt effort is much better than stock. This also reduces trigger pull.

ZM"

Has anyone in here ever tried this? I'm thinking about giving it a try.

JAMES · 06-21-2004, 09:04 AM

Sounds like a bunch of great advice here already, 7mmag6.

If the bolt is stiff or rough without ammo loaded, I'd be inclined to look for something wrong with the action...extractor, tolerances/binding; or, perhaps it just needs some good break-in. I didn't catch what type of Mosin you have, but if it is one of the clean M91/30's or M38's that were rearsenaled, it might just be a very tight fit.

You stated that you "dry checked it" with ammo and the rounds chambered smoothly. Does that mean that working the bolt has improved since before you took it out to the range? Headspace is certainly always an important factor, but if you are cycling live ammo smoothly, then I'd suspect that your bolt will close on a GO gauge.

I've fired a box or two of that Czech silver tip ammo and was well pleased with it. The cases all looked good before and after firing. There does appear to be some sort of coating on the steel cases; not sure if it is lacquer or what. That may be the source if combined with a rough or nicked chamber, particularly if the problem increases with each round fired. I'd try the chamber polishing advice first to see if that smooths out the extraction.

Good luck!

Shaun · 06-21-2004, 10:41 AM

try picking up a single box of Winchester at a local store and testing it to determine the ammo issue.

whirlwind · 06-23-2004, 12:47 AM

my 91 did the same thing. after weeks of scratching my head i finally found that the part where the cocking piece slides on the bolt needed some lubrication. now why it gets stiffer the more shots ya take...has me puzzled too. but i put some high heat nickle anti-sieze on it and no more trouble at all.

bill cunnane · 07-05-2004, 10:50 AM

There has also been alot of talk about the ammo being the problem especially after firing. I shoot surplus Russian 145 FMJ and have not had a problem. I have heard of problems witht he cz, and some of the other rounds expanding and jamming. I have a M38, M44, and two 91/30s and have shot close to 400 rounds and only one bad round out of the lot. That round had a a molding problem and was not a gun produced defect.

Bill Cunnane

7mmag6 · 07-07-2004, 10:58 PM

Well I think I found the problem. After reading some from another (ahem) forum, I did what big dog said and polished the chamber. there seems to be cosmoline dried in the chamber and it sets up like a rock after all these years. Now what I did after was shoot the rifle untill it was hot and that seems to soften the remaining cosmo. then I scrubbed the chamber with break free, ran patches down the barrel (removed them before I swabbed back up the barrel) until they were clean, and that worked wonders, how ever, I have seen problems with cz ammo on other forums, so the verdict is still out on the ammo. The cosmoline problem is wide spread as I learned, and very common, so if you are having this problem I suggest you do the same,(be very careful polishing the chamber, I used a light rubbing compound, you may want to have a gunsmith do this) and brought it to a shine. but be careful
the weapon seems happy with the cz ammo now
I liked the 44 so much I purchased a 38, went through all of big5s stock and found a 1925 hex with matching bolt, sweet stock, There is a lot of cartouches on the stock and I was wondering if any one knows if there is a site or to interpret them? (century just had to stencil thier logo crap on the reciever bastages), also is the hex reciever rare? or just common production changes?

Shaun · 07-07-2004, 11:04 PM

nice toys 7mm

7mmag6 · 07-07-2004, 11:14 PM

here is the url for the bolt problem

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/Sticky_bolt.htm

SPOCAHP ANAR · 07-08-2004, 06:20 PM

I had a problem similar to this in my nagant. I was using the green ammo with the laquered surface. After about 4 shots the bolt wouldn't budge. After each round it got harder and harder to open. I switched to another type of surplus (non laquered) and didn't have anymore problems.

It turns out that the rifl;e heats up after a few rounds and the bolt is cemented shut by the laquer on the bullet.

06-11-2004, 08:24 PM	#1
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	cycling problems with my mosin m-44 I took my mosin out today to shoot for the first time. Its in excellent condition, I cleaned it well and oiled it, the bolt is a bit stiff, and the safety takes a real pull to apply, but overall it looks great. Using check silver tip from J and G I shot a couple of times single shot to see how well it would work. The first 2 shots were ok but I noticed the bolt was hard to open, after the third shot I had to pry open the bolt, ouch. the empty looked ok so I tried it again and the same thing happened, I had to pry open the bolt with a screw driver to get enough leverage to open it. I have it at home now and the bolt works fine on empty, (still a bit stiff). So any ideas? the ammo is corrosive czeck, but it looks ok and is not corroded, and j&G says its good stuff. So am I out 750 rounds from bad ammo or am I over looking something? -stumped

06-11-2004, 08:25 PM	#2
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,875 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	Get your head space checked by a competant gun smith before shooting again. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

06-11-2004, 09:02 PM	#4
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,875 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	If you had cancer, would you get a second opinion? The only other thing I can think of is ammo brand __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

06-11-2004, 11:36 PM	#7
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,875 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	I think the only way to tell is with a head space check guage? Iv'e had this happen with out of tolerance reloads in bolt guns. Just to be safe, I'd get 'er checked. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

06-12-2004, 12:31 AM	#9
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,582 Blog Entries: 22	Hey 7Mag, that's pretty common on the M/N's but the cause is pretty iffy. Some guys say to polish the chamber, some say to disassemble and lube the camming surfaces on the bolt, some claim ammo probs, etc. etc. From my own experience, I would try 'em all one at a time until I found one that works. My 91\30 responded well to cleaning\polishing\lubing the bolt camming surfaces and bolt lugs. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

06-11-2004, 08:31 PM	#3
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	the rifle was supposed to have been space checked from the dealer, so hmmmm, maybe they fib

06-11-2004, 09:32 PM	#5
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	no I mean they probably did fib to me, Im taking it back to the dealer, that makes sense to me, the head space is to tight, Ive never run across the problem before, but it sounds reasonable

06-11-2004, 10:34 PM	#6
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	I just dry checked it again and the rounds chamber smoothly, Im not sure if that means any thing, but if the head space is incorrect wont the bolt close hard?. I wonder if the cases are stretching, hmmmmmm

06-12-2004, 12:09 AM	#8
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	:nod: I had my head space checked jer and they said it was empty

06-12-2004, 08:29 AM	#11
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,213	Jerry, back in the USAF at Tyndall, we often wrote up problems as a "short between the headsets". 7MMAG6, check over on Tuco's Gunboards (gunboards.com) "Collectors" forum. They are used to hearing this problem, and can give lots of things to check - most already discussed here. I have gotten some relief on this problem with my M39 Finn, by swapping bolts. Again, headspace should be checked. Not only did it eliminate the "sticky bolt" problem, but it improved the trigger pull. Just keep the original bolt for "collector value", if it is a matching number bolt. Check the shell after firing - does it have any scratch marks? Sometimes the extractor can be bent, causing this problem. Polishing the chamber is easy too. Chuck a cleaning rod section in your drill, use a .410 mop with some fine polishing compound, low speed - you'll have that chamber slicked up in no time. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

06-13-2004, 08:38 AM	#12
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	For what it's worth the following is a response from another gun forum site regarding the very same issue: "Mosin Bolt Effort How to get the bolt effort in a Mosin lighter. Soak the bolt parts on mineral spirits for a day or two. Clean. Cut a coil out of the firing pin spring. Reassemble and readjust the firing pin height. Try the bolt again. Things should be better. You can take up to two coils out of the spring. Both of my Russian Mosins are set up this way. The bolt effort is much better than stock. This also reduces trigger pull. ZM" Has anyone in here ever tried this? I'm thinking about giving it a try. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

06-21-2004, 09:04 AM	#13
JAMES Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: OKLAHOMA Posts: 575	Sounds like a bunch of great advice here already, 7mmag6. If the bolt is stiff or rough without ammo loaded, I'd be inclined to look for something wrong with the action...extractor, tolerances/binding; or, perhaps it just needs some good break-in. I didn't catch what type of Mosin you have, but if it is one of the clean M91/30's or M38's that were rearsenaled, it might just be a very tight fit. You stated that you "dry checked it" with ammo and the rounds chambered smoothly. Does that mean that working the bolt has improved since before you took it out to the range? Headspace is certainly always an important factor, but if you are cycling live ammo smoothly, then I'd suspect that your bolt will close on a GO gauge. I've fired a box or two of that Czech silver tip ammo and was well pleased with it. The cases all looked good before and after firing. There does appear to be some sort of coating on the steel cases; not sure if it is lacquer or what. That may be the source if combined with a rough or nicked chamber, particularly if the problem increases with each round fired. I'd try the chamber polishing advice first to see if that smooths out the extraction. Good luck!

06-21-2004, 10:41 AM	#14
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	try picking up a single box of Winchester at a local store and testing it to determine the ammo issue. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

06-23-2004, 12:47 AM	#15
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,737 Images: 1	my 91 did the same thing. after weeks of scratching my head i finally found that the part where the cocking piece slides on the bolt needed some lubrication. now why it gets stiffer the more shots ya take...has me puzzled too. but i put some high heat nickle anti-sieze on it and no more trouble at all. __________________ De oppresso liber !

07-05-2004, 10:50 AM	#16
bill cunnane Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2	There has also been alot of talk about the ammo being the problem especially after firing. I shoot surplus Russian 145 FMJ and have not had a problem. I have heard of problems witht he cz, and some of the other rounds expanding and jamming. I have a M38, M44, and two 91/30s and have shot close to 400 rounds and only one bad round out of the lot. That round had a a molding problem and was not a gun produced defect. Bill Cunnane

07-07-2004, 10:58 PM	#17
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	Well I think I found the problem. After reading some from another (ahem) forum, I did what big dog said and polished the chamber. there seems to be cosmoline dried in the chamber and it sets up like a rock after all these years. Now what I did after was shoot the rifle untill it was hot and that seems to soften the remaining cosmo. then I scrubbed the chamber with break free, ran patches down the barrel (removed them before I swabbed back up the barrel) until they were clean, and that worked wonders, how ever, I have seen problems with cz ammo on other forums, so the verdict is still out on the ammo. The cosmoline problem is wide spread as I learned, and very common, so if you are having this problem I suggest you do the same,(be very careful polishing the chamber, I used a light rubbing compound, you may want to have a gunsmith do this) and brought it to a shine. but be careful the weapon seems happy with the cz ammo now I liked the 44 so much I purchased a 38, went through all of big5s stock and found a 1925 hex with matching bolt, sweet stock, There is a lot of cartouches on the stock and I was wondering if any one knows if there is a site or to interpret them? (century just had to stencil thier logo crap on the reciever bastages), also is the hex reciever rare? or just common production changes?

07-07-2004, 11:04 PM	#18
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	nice toys 7mm __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

07-07-2004, 11:14 PM	#19
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	here is the url for the bolt problem http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/Sticky_bolt.htm

07-08-2004, 06:20 PM	#20
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,094 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 4	I had a problem similar to this in my nagant. I was using the green ammo with the laquered surface. After about 4 shots the bolt wouldn't budge. After each round it got harder and harder to open. I switched to another type of surplus (non laquered) and didn't have anymore problems. It turns out that the rifl;e heats up after a few rounds and the bolt is cemented shut by the laquer on the bullet. __________________ Spocrest Out!..........