Questions from a newbie!

Learjet60 · 11-30-2006, 07:29 PM

Hi all...first time on your site (love it) and a total rifle newbie here!

I just bought 2 M44 Mosin-Nagants at a local gun shop. One is a wooden stock 1944 and the other a laminated stock 1945. Both have matching numbers...dumb luck on my part! I plan to give one to my father and keep the other. My only knowledge of rifles to this point is my Model 94 30/30 I use for deer hunting.

Anyways, I'd like some advice on ammo and inspection before either of these weapons are fired. Beyond the ammo type (7.62x54r) I know NOTHING in this regard. My plan was (is) to go to Cabelas or Gander Mtn. and purchase ammo for them there unless someone has a better idea for a newbie like me.

As far as inspection goes, one guy at the gun shop suggested I have a gunsmith inspect (and gap?) the rifles before using. A second guy from the same shop said he's talked to a number of customers who have purchased M44's from them and have fired them right away with no issues. Suggestions there?

Any feedback about any of this would be appreciated. I can take some pics for all to see if you guys are interested. Thanks!

Zephri · 11-30-2006, 07:53 PM

welcome to the forums!!!

When you buy one of these be sure there is no cosmoline (if any) in the barrel or the chamber, or the bolt will stick.

as for ammo
I use czech Silvertip ammo in my rifle

and always clean Immediately after shooting it or your barrel will rust

Apollyon67 · 11-30-2006, 10:20 PM

welcome to the forum. As for ammo, it seems different rifles will fire some ammo better than other ammo, with no rhyme or reason. Get small lots of each kind and test fire in a controlled setting. Don't forget that if you are hunting, you will want a bullet that will expand for stopping power of the game intended. There are more complete answers in the ammo section on these questions. Now as to a gunsmith checking your rifle, that's always a good idea. I have an M44 that I like to fire Wolf ammo as I like the flash and don't mind letting Ash clean my rifles. (sorry buddy)

billy · 11-30-2006, 10:53 PM

tie em to a tree or such, and fire em with a string .at least thats what i do. get a recoil pad and some ear plugs . HAVE FUN!

SilverRun · 11-30-2006, 11:35 PM

Billy's tree idea is a good idea, but I would go with sandbags on the bench at a deserted range. After firing it with the string, inspect the rifle and casing for iregularities, and/or take it to a good gunsmith - if you can find one. Winchester makes the best ammo, if you want to pay for it.

Geo M44 · 12-01-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learjet60

Hi all...first time on your site (love it) and a total rifle newbie here!

I just bought 2 M44 Mosin-Nagants at a local gun shop. One is a wooden stock 1944 and the other a laminated stock 1945. Both have matching numbers...dumb luck on my part! I plan to give one to my father and keep the other. My only knowledge of rifles to this point is my Model 94 30/30 I use for deer hunting.

Anyways, I'd like some advice on ammo and inspection before either of these weapons are fired. Beyond the ammo type (7.62x54r) I know NOTHING in this regard. My plan was (is) to go to Cabelas or Gander Mtn. and purchase ammo for them there unless someone has a better idea for a newbie like me.

As far as inspection goes, one guy at the gun shop suggested I have a gunsmith inspect (and gap?) the rifles before using. A second guy from the same shop said he's talked to a number of customers who have purchased M44's from them and have fired them right away with no issues. Suggestions there?

Any feedback about any of this would be appreciated. I can take some pics for all to see if you guys are interested. Thanks!

Both of these rifles were war-time builds, so a good check of the bore (and a thorough cleaning) are in order. In any case disassemble, clean, and lube, both rifles before shooting. Pay special attention to cleaning the breach (a 12ga brush on a drill works well for this). Disassembly is very simple, as is reassembly. Here is a great place to start reading:

Russian Mosin Nagant Page & Forums Main Page

If the serial numbers on the bolt and receiver match then you probably don't need to worry about head-space measurement. You would probably do well to start out with some Wolf Gold from Cabelas, or Brown Bear if you can find it locally. Both will cycle easily (compared to most MilSurp ammo).

Have fun and enjoy. MN's are a blast! Literally and figuratively.

Learjet60 · 12-01-2006, 02:46 PM

Thanks for the tips guys!

The 2 rifles were well lubricated by the gun shop and the bolt on each slides smoothly and easily. I would not have thought to have the casings inspected after shooting it the first time but that makes a lot of sense. I don't plan on hunting with the M44, but I would like to spend some time at the local range shooting it on occasion.

Is there a specific grain that is recommended over others for simple target shooting with iron sights at the range? I'm obviously not a reloader, so ammo criteria for me is based on availability, cost, cleaning issues, and of course safety.

More comments are welcomed!

troy2000 · 12-01-2006, 11:56 PM

Surplus...

just_a_car · 12-02-2006, 12:20 AM

Run through the material here for a lot of good info: 7.62x54r.net

2/3rd the way down the page, there's a link, that I'll just post here for you that has mil-surp ammo evaluations, very thorough. 7.62x54r Ammunition Evaluations

I'd suggest nabbing up some Hungarian, Albanian or Bulgarian, as I've seen all of those for sale in quantities of ~800 for ~$80 (~$130 shipped). For the best results, use copper-washed steel cases or brass, if you can find them cheap. Laquer can be shot, but expect some FTE's (failure to eject) and check out my Military Surplus Ammunition post for a great suggestion by our local Geo M44 on how to deal with that; it's worked every time for me and my Czech Silvertip in my 91/30.

Geo M44 · 12-02-2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learjet60

Thanks for the tips guys!
The 2 rifles were well lubricated by the gun shop and the bolt on each slides smoothly and easily. I would not have thought to have the casings inspected after shooting it the first time but that makes a lot of sense. I don't plan on hunting with the M44, but I would like to spend some time at the local range shooting it on occasion.
Is there a specific grain that is recommended over others for simple target shooting with iron sights at the range? I'm obviously not a reloader, so ammo criteria for me is based on availability, cost, cleaning issues, and of course safety.
More comments are welcomed!

Even when these rifles were new the bolts slid smoothly. Did the gun shop say specifically that they had been thoroughly cleaned? Again, check the bore to make sure that the grooves are well defined. I slug and caliper my C&R's to check the bore. This is not a safety issue but will let you know what to expect as far as accuracy. Lands (bore) should be ~.303-.305 and grooves should be .311.

Personally I tear down every MilSurp rifle I buy, if for no other reason than to know how the rifle works. The Mosin is about as simple as it gets (except for the bolt), so just shoot a lot of Break Free into the bolt if you are not good with a Rubics Cube.

The two most common bullet weights are 147, 150 (MilSurp=light ball), and 174, 180gr. (MilSurp=heavy ball) there are some 203gr out there as well. I like the 174 and 180gr when shooting longer than 100yds, but 147 and 150 work well for general target shooting when the wind isn't blowing too hard.

Brown Bear and Wolf (varnished steel) are the two most reasonably priced non-corrosive rounds at about $6.95 a box of 20 (+shipping). Both are current manufacture Russian, and available in FMJ and SP (full metal jacket and soft point). From my experience both are very accurate, and carry maximum powder loads (around 45gr), and, of course, the recoil/muzzle blast that goes with those loads (=fun!!!).

MilSurp ammo is very accurate and also consistant. If you don't mind cleaning the rifle bore with windex or other amonia based cleaner (ammonia and water) each time you use it then MilSurp is a terrific value. Don't let the corrosive thing keep you from trying MilSurp. Just don't buy 400 rounds before trying a box of 20 to see if your Mosin likes it.
I hope this helps.

Dennis · 12-02-2006, 01:36 PM

hello Lear,... he ya might want to read back on some older threads there is a wealth of info here about Mosin Nagant Rifles.

Learjet60 · 12-02-2006, 09:01 PM

Thanks for all the great advice guys! I've been reading everything I can get my hands on, including the other posts here. Being new to all this, I wanted to start at "square one" to make sure I was on the right track. It's great to find there are some many knowledgable guys willing to help out a new guy like me. Thanks for the input...I'll put it to good use!

Dallas · 12-02-2006, 09:14 PM

Welcome aboard the boards

ninwnc · 12-03-2006, 10:12 AM

Warning: Russian cosmoline causes Mosinitas. It is incureable. It causes you to twitch, tremble, and reach for your wallet and credit cards evry time you see a Mosin Nagant you don't own.

I am suprised these others didn't warn you of this.

LOL

Welcome & enjoy your "new" rifles.

Nick

Learjet60 · 12-03-2006, 10:58 AM

LOL...thanks guys! I've already got the feeling this won't be my last purchase and I haven't even gotten to know my first one yet

troy2000 · 12-03-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learjet60

LOL...thanks guys! I've already got the feeling this won't be my last purchase and I haven't even gotten to know my first one yet

It's commonly known as the "betcha can't buy just one..." syndrome.

kfinks · 12-04-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learjet60

LOL...thanks guys! I've already got the feeling this won't be my last purchase and I haven't even gotten to know my first one yet

Just a few suggestions:

1. Learn to like Ramen noodles.
2. Put a larger gun safe on layaway.
3. Never wear camo when the UPS driver delivers cases of surplus ammo.

just_a_car · 12-04-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfinks

3. Never wear camo when the UPS driver delivers cases of surplus ammo.

Yano, it's kinda funny, the first time I bought an 800 case of Czech silver tip, the only clean pants I had were my cammies and I didn't even think about it until the door closed as I put this large wooden box down and looked at my pants. I wonder what the little (4'6") Asian FedEx lady was thinking when she saw me... hehe. I live in a nice suburban style neighborhood, too.

Learjet60 · 12-04-2006, 06:03 PM

Troy, it seems I'm hooked already!

I happened to be in the neighborhood of the closest Cabela's store (nearly 1.5 hrs away) and popped in to see what they had for 7.62 x 54r ammo. The only correct ammo they had in stock was some Sellier and Bellot 174 grain HPBT (Hollow Point B??? T???) from the Czech Republic. Has anyone had any experience with this ammo? I purchased one box for $20. As suggested above, once I learn more about my rifle and shoot a few different types, I'll probably look into the mil surplus I've read so much about. Thanks!

just_a_car · 12-04-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learjet60

Troy, it seems I'm hooked already!

I happened to be in the neighborhood of the closest Cabela's store (nearly 1.5 hrs away) and popped in to see what they had for 7.62 x 54r ammo. The only correct ammo they had in stock was some Sellier and Bellot 174 grain HPBT (Hollow Point B??? T???) from the Czech Republic. Has anyone had any experience with this ammo? I purchased one box for $20. As suggested above, once I learn more about my rifle and shoot a few different types, I'll probably look into the mil surplus I've read so much about. Thanks!

Hollow Point Boat Tail, indicating the angled back of the bullet that you can't see inside the case. Take a look at the fourth paragraph of this section: Bullet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They also have a lot of acronyms there (some not that accurate, disappointingly enough) at the bottom of the page.

11-30-2006, 07:29 PM	#1
Learjet60 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: IL Posts: 25	Questions from a newbie! Hi all...first time on your site (love it) and a total rifle newbie here! I just bought 2 M44 Mosin-Nagants at a local gun shop. One is a wooden stock 1944 and the other a laminated stock 1945. Both have matching numbers...dumb luck on my part! I plan to give one to my father and keep the other. My only knowledge of rifles to this point is my Model 94 30/30 I use for deer hunting. Anyways, I'd like some advice on ammo and inspection before either of these weapons are fired. Beyond the ammo type (7.62x54r) I know NOTHING in this regard. My plan was (is) to go to Cabelas or Gander Mtn. and purchase ammo for them there unless someone has a better idea for a newbie like me. As far as inspection goes, one guy at the gun shop suggested I have a gunsmith inspect (and gap?) the rifles before using. A second guy from the same shop said he's talked to a number of customers who have purchased M44's from them and have fired them right away with no issues. Suggestions there? Any feedback about any of this would be appreciated. I can take some pics for all to see if you guys are interested. Thanks!

11-30-2006, 07:53 PM	#2
Zephri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN. "The city where nothing happens." Posts: 1,141 Blog Entries: 6	welcome to the forums!!! When you buy one of these be sure there is no cosmoline (if any) in the barrel or the chamber, or the bolt will stick. as for ammo I use czech Silvertip ammo in my rifle and always clean Immediately after shooting it or your barrel will rust __________________ "All rifles need a sharp pointy object on the end!" Last edited by Zephri; 11-30-2006 at 07:56 PM.

11-30-2006, 10:20 PM	#3
Apollyon67 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 2,238 Images: 17	welcome to the forum. As for ammo, it seems different rifles will fire some ammo better than other ammo, with no rhyme or reason. Get small lots of each kind and test fire in a controlled setting. Don't forget that if you are hunting, you will want a bullet that will expand for stopping power of the game intended. There are more complete answers in the ammo section on these questions. Now as to a gunsmith checking your rifle, that's always a good idea. I have an M44 that I like to fire Wolf ammo as I like the flash and don't mind letting Ash clean my rifles. (sorry buddy) __________________ "To err is human, to repent divine; to persist devilish." Ben Franklin

12-01-2006, 11:56 PM	#8
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,443 Images: 9	Surplus... __________________ I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said. WF Buckley, Jr

12-02-2006, 01:36 PM	#11
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,896	hello Lear,... he ya might want to read back on some older threads there is a wealth of info here about Mosin Nagant Rifles. __________________ Submitted with respect to all

11-30-2006, 10:53 PM	#4
billy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 15,741 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 158	tie em to a tree or such, and fire em with a string .at least thats what i do. get a recoil pad and some ear plugs . HAVE FUN!

11-30-2006, 11:35 PM	#5
SilverRun Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AL Posts: 1,666	Billy's tree idea is a good idea, but I would go with sandbags on the bench at a deserted range. After firing it with the string, inspect the rifle and casing for iregularities, and/or take it to a good gunsmith - if you can find one. Winchester makes the best ammo, if you want to pay for it.

12-01-2006, 02:46 PM	#7
Learjet60 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: IL Posts: 25	Thanks for the tips guys! The 2 rifles were well lubricated by the gun shop and the bolt on each slides smoothly and easily. I would not have thought to have the casings inspected after shooting it the first time but that makes a lot of sense. I don't plan on hunting with the M44, but I would like to spend some time at the local range shooting it on occasion. Is there a specific grain that is recommended over others for simple target shooting with iron sights at the range? I'm obviously not a reloader, so ammo criteria for me is based on availability, cost, cleaning issues, and of course safety. More comments are welcomed!

12-02-2006, 12:20 AM	#9
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,737	Run through the material here for a lot of good info: 7.62x54r.net 2/3rd the way down the page, there's a link, that I'll just post here for you that has mil-surp ammo evaluations, very thorough. 7.62x54r Ammunition Evaluations I'd suggest nabbing up some Hungarian, Albanian or Bulgarian, as I've seen all of those for sale in quantities of ~800 for ~$80 (~$130 shipped). For the best results, use copper-washed steel cases or brass, if you can find them cheap. Laquer can be shot, but expect some FTE's (failure to eject) and check out my Military Surplus Ammunition post for a great suggestion by our local Geo M44 on how to deal with that; it's worked every time for me and my Czech Silvertip in my 91/30.

12-02-2006, 09:01 PM	#12
Learjet60 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: IL Posts: 25	Thanks for all the great advice guys! I've been reading everything I can get my hands on, including the other posts here. Being new to all this, I wanted to start at "square one" to make sure I was on the right track. It's great to find there are some many knowledgable guys willing to help out a new guy like me. Thanks for the input...I'll put it to good use!

12-02-2006, 09:14 PM	#13
Dallas PUKHA DAWG Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia, just outside of Washington D.C. Posts: 3,610	Welcome aboard the boards

12-03-2006, 10:12 AM	#14
ninwnc Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 435	Warning: Russian cosmoline causes Mosinitas. It is incureable. It causes you to twitch, tremble, and reach for your wallet and credit cards evry time you see a Mosin Nagant you don't own. I am suprised these others didn't warn you of this. LOL Welcome & enjoy your "new" rifles. Nick

12-03-2006, 10:58 AM	#15
Learjet60 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: IL Posts: 25	LOL...thanks guys! I've already got the feeling this won't be my last purchase and I haven't even gotten to know my first one yet

12-04-2006, 06:03 PM	#19
Learjet60 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: IL Posts: 25	Troy, it seems I'm hooked already! I happened to be in the neighborhood of the closest Cabela's store (nearly 1.5 hrs away) and popped in to see what they had for 7.62 x 54r ammo. The only correct ammo they had in stock was some Sellier and Bellot 174 grain HPBT (Hollow Point B??? T???) from the Czech Republic. Has anyone had any experience with this ammo? I purchased one box for $20. As suggested above, once I learn more about my rifle and shoot a few different types, I'll probably look into the mil surplus I've read so much about. Thanks!