heavy ball or light ball?

bravo30 · 07-26-2007, 10:11 PM

ok heres the deal im trying to stock up on some ammo but not sure how to choose either heavy ball or light ball ?

here are my requiremnts
- penetration of vehicles and houses etc etc

do they both penetrate about the same ?

Johnnycat · 07-26-2007, 10:28 PM

For penetration you want momentum. For destruction you want kinetic energy. Get the heavy ball.
momentum = mass x velocity, therefore go with the larger bullet. Even though a smaller bullet would travel faster, there seems to be more benefit out of a larger bullet. Velocity and mass are "weighted" the same in this equation
kinetic energy = 1/2mass x velocity2 (that's squared) - therefore go with the smaller, faster bullet because the velocity is squared
With the scenario you gave, you something that penetrates without disintegrating into pieces. You want a big, heavy, bonded bullet.

bravo30 · 07-26-2007, 10:30 PM

thanks bro ........ appreciate it ... heavy ball is the best of both worlds it seems

toolman · 07-26-2007, 10:31 PM

It depends on the gun it is being fired from and the gun it was designed for. A lot of heavy ball was designed for machine-gun usage and is too hot for some bolt-action and semi-auto guns. All of the M\N's use the same strong action and I've never heard of one being damaged by using heavy ball. That said, I'd try whatever your interested in and see how it shoots in your particular gun. Keep in mind that heavy ball usually has higher recoil but the bullet will retain more energy at longer ranges. I assume that you are talking surplus ammo which is all FMJ and corrosive. Being FMJ, you'll get plenty of penetration in either weight class. I prefer light ball (147gr) which is claimed to have a penetration of around 16+" in oak planks when fired from a 23" barrel as it has less recoil and, subsequently, stresses the gun a bit less. BTW, welcome to G&G!

Zephri · 07-26-2007, 11:10 PM

Here's a picture of some steel plates I shot with some light ball and heavy ball ammo. On the backside of the 1/2 inch steel plate there are 2 dents where the 2 bullets impacted.

The only problem I have with the heavy ball is that it gets stuck in the chamber and will not extract with out the cleaning rod after about 30 or 40 shots, other than that it shoots great.

just_a_car · 07-27-2007, 12:37 AM

That's an awesome picture Zephri! Thanks for the ammo porn!

BFRANKlin · 08-02-2007, 10:38 PM

See my post, "Ammo tip" above. It might be helpful.

PS justacar--I used to have a '67 Olds 442 w/4-speed that ate Mustangs for light snacks. Didn't matter if they had Hi-Po 289s or 428 CJs in them, all fell behind mine in the 1/4 mile. And mine was pure stock, not ram air cammed, too. Those were fun days & nights on the streets and drag strips.

just_a_car · 08-03-2007, 02:21 AM

Awesome stuff Franklin!

I'd love to see it go up against one of those 460-modded fox-body mustangs. Those things get down into the 11's and 10's naturally aspirated. Put a blower on there and it gets crazy.

For dirt stock, I'd love to see the 1971 Boss 351 go up against your car. The lighter engine with superior camming out-performed the 429SCJ.

.22guy · 08-03-2007, 02:42 AM

Ammo porn? That's a new one!

just_a_car · 08-03-2007, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .22guy

Ammo porn? That's a new one!

Hehe, I try.

With the variety of 7.62x54R tips, cases, and such, it's interesting to not only see the effects of the rounds, but the rounds themselves.

killer · 08-03-2007, 04:43 AM

Since the scenerio your presenting is urban combat and the weapon is a Nagant you want to avoid the sticky bolt common problem with the rifle. I own a 91/30 and M44 and stayed away from heavy ball and non-brass.

From what I'm seeing others say on other forums heavy ball and non-brass tends to have sticky bolt.

All I know is since I don't have either I have never experienced it. The light ball will go thru walls and car doors fine.

just_a_car · 08-03-2007, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer

The light ball will go thru walls and car doors fine.

They sho' will!... The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth #4 - Rifles and Car Doors - Page 1

Mightybigjosh · 08-03-2007, 08:22 AM

That looks like a lot of fun!!! Does make me wonder about how safe I am in my car though. Guess I'll have to go out and get me one of those Pope mobiles

.

DWARREN123 · 08-03-2007, 10:17 AM

I would go with what shoots best in your rifle. Some like heavy ball and some like light ball ammo.

07-26-2007, 10:11 PM	#1
bravo30 Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philly Posts: 69 Trader Rating: (0)	heavy ball or light ball? ok heres the deal im trying to stock up on some ammo but not sure how to choose either heavy ball or light ball ? here are my requiremnts - penetration of vehicles and houses etc etc do they both penetrate about the same ?

07-26-2007, 10:28 PM	#2
Johnnycat Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tupelo, MS Posts: 189 Trader Rating: (0)	For penetration you want momentum. For destruction you want kinetic energy. Get the heavy ball. momentum = mass x velocity, therefore go with the larger bullet. Even though a smaller bullet would travel faster, there seems to be more benefit out of a larger bullet. Velocity and mass are "weighted" the same in this equation kinetic energy = 1/2mass x velocity2 (that's squared) - therefore go with the smaller, faster bullet because the velocity is squared With the scenario you gave, you something that penetrates without disintegrating into pieces. You want a big, heavy, bonded bullet. __________________ Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley

07-26-2007, 11:10 PM	#5
Zephri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN. "The city where nothing happens." Posts: 1,021 Trader Rating: (1)	Here's a picture of some steel plates I shot with some light ball and heavy ball ammo. On the backside of the 1/2 inch steel plate there are 2 dents where the 2 bullets impacted. The only problem I have with the heavy ball is that it gets stuck in the chamber and will not extract with out the cleaning rod after about 30 or 40 shots, other than that it shoots great. __________________ "All rifles need a sharp pointy object on the end!" http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/zephri/

07-27-2007, 12:37 AM	#6
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (0)	That's an awesome picture Zephri! Thanks for the ammo porn! __________________

08-02-2007, 10:38 PM	#7
BFRANKlin Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern Ohio Posts: 258 Trader Rating: (0)	See my post, "Ammo tip" above. It might be helpful. PS justacar--I used to have a '67 Olds 442 w/4-speed that ate Mustangs for light snacks. Didn't matter if they had Hi-Po 289s or 428 CJs in them, all fell behind mine in the 1/4 mile. And mine was pure stock, not ram air cammed, too. Those were fun days & nights on the streets and drag strips. Last edited by BFRANKlin; 08-02-2007 at 10:44 PM.

07-26-2007, 10:30 PM	#3
bravo30 Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philly Posts: 69 Trader Rating: (0)	thanks bro ........ appreciate it ... heavy ball is the best of both worlds it seems

07-26-2007, 10:31 PM	#4
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,310 Trader Rating: (0)	It depends on the gun it is being fired from and the gun it was designed for. A lot of heavy ball was designed for machine-gun usage and is too hot for some bolt-action and semi-auto guns. All of the M\N's use the same strong action and I've never heard of one being damaged by using heavy ball. That said, I'd try whatever your interested in and see how it shoots in your particular gun. Keep in mind that heavy ball usually has higher recoil but the bullet will retain more energy at longer ranges. I assume that you are talking surplus ammo which is all FMJ and corrosive. Being FMJ, you'll get plenty of penetration in either weight class. I prefer light ball (147gr) which is claimed to have a penetration of around 16+" in oak planks when fired from a 23" barrel as it has less recoil and, subsequently, stresses the gun a bit less. BTW, welcome to G&G! __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun! Last edited by toolman; 07-26-2007 at 10:38 PM.

08-03-2007, 02:21 AM	#8
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (0)	Awesome stuff Franklin! I'd love to see it go up against one of those 460-modded fox-body mustangs. Those things get down into the 11's and 10's naturally aspirated. Put a blower on there and it gets crazy. For dirt stock, I'd love to see the 1971 Boss 351 go up against your car. The lighter engine with superior camming out-performed the 429SCJ. __________________

08-03-2007, 02:42 AM	#9
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,059 Trader Rating: (0)	Ammo porn? That's a new one! __________________ Guns: they are like baseball cards except they are cool and you can kill things with em. -Billy

08-03-2007, 04:43 AM	#11
killer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the rat race Posts: 906 Trader Rating: (0)	Since the scenerio your presenting is urban combat and the weapon is a Nagant you want to avoid the sticky bolt common problem with the rifle. I own a 91/30 and M44 and stayed away from heavy ball and non-brass. From what I'm seeing others say on other forums heavy ball and non-brass tends to have sticky bolt. All I know is since I don't have either I have never experienced it. The light ball will go thru walls and car doors fine. __________________ "Yeee Hawww...I'm a cowboy on an iron horse." Killer's cabin: http://buckmountainchateau.com/

08-03-2007, 08:22 AM	#13
Mightybigjosh Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: OH, Washington Posts: 37 Trader Rating: (0)	That looks like a lot of fun!!! Does make me wonder about how safe I am in my car though. Guess I'll have to go out and get me one of those Pope mobiles. __________________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher; If you can read this in English, thank a soldier"

08-03-2007, 10:17 AM	#14
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 735 Trader Rating: (0)	I would go with what shoots best in your rifle. Some like heavy ball and some like light ball ammo. __________________ Have a nice day!