Prime M44 - Came With Everything You See Here

Joshua M. Smith · 09-20-2007, 07:36 PM

Hi All,

I found a really nice Russian M44 Mosin-Nagant at what I thought was a reasonable price. No rust was evident as I cleaned the cosmoline off.

I'm pretty sure this is what a Russian soldier would have been issued.

This ammo has be baffled, but I believe it's the same stuff found here: GunBroker.com guns: 880rd 7.62x54R hungarian yellow tip 182gr leadcore (item: 80929981 ends: Sep-19-07 11:18:20 PM)

This is my first centerfire rifle. Any advice would be very appreciated. I'm pretty sure this surplus ammo is corrosive; do I just run a Windex patch down the barrel after shooting it? I do not want to shoot the thing until I know exactly what I'm doing.

It'd be nice to find some stripper clips as well. Might have to go back as I think I saw some at the gunstore a while back.

So, whatcha' all think?

Josh <><

FutureMarine9 · 09-20-2007, 07:42 PM

sorry i dont have any advice on the ammo but i was wondering what method you used to get the cosmoline out

Joshua M. Smith · 09-20-2007, 07:46 PM

Lots of paper towels and Hoppes. I've heard kerosene also works well. Just keep it away from the wood.

Josh <><

A-10 · 09-20-2007, 07:57 PM

Windex will work because the amonia in it counteracts with the corrosive salts. This will work for corrosive ammo, but so will hot, soapy water. As for another tip, make sure you thouroughly clean the chamber of cosmoline and check for burrs to prevent "sticky bolt syndrom" it probably wouldn't hurt to pollish the chamber with a 20 gauge bore brush, cleaning rod, and power drill. If this is your first centerfire, just be prepared for the recoil. The M44's kick pretty hard. Congradulations on the new piece!

Kismet · 09-20-2007, 08:17 PM

EAR PROTECTION !!!

amonia/water mix is just fine to clean barrel. wipe off bolt at the same time. do what they suggested on chamber.

Trust the rifle. After 115 years, they've worked most of the bugs out.

just_a_car · 09-20-2007, 08:22 PM

The ammo is likely a Hungarian heavy-ball as you've mentioned, due to the yellow tip, but it's hard to know without seeing the head stamps (numbers/letters around the primer). Usually I shoot the 147gr "light ball" stuff, which won't kick nearly as hard. You can find that info and other great stuff at 7.62x54r.net. They have a specific link about 2/3 down the page for "Ammunition Evaluations".

The salts are produced from the Potassium Chlorate in the primer, which turns into Potassium Chloride when fired (like Sodium Chloride, table salt) so all that is truly needed is hot water to 'rinse' the salts out, but using ammonia or soap will help. The ammonia also starts to work on the copper fouling in the barrel left by the copper jacket of the bullet. That will be what the "green-blue" color is on the patch if you use Hoppe's No. 9 to clean the barrel, as it contains ammonia (I use it to clean my Mosins, too).

Make sure you clean the rifle AT THE RANGE right after shooting. If you leave it till you get home, you may find that there's already some "frosting" of the barrel. The corrosion occurs very quickly, but you shouldn't be worried as long as you take care of it immediately after shooting.

I've heard the 20ga brush works well, but a .45 (or so) brush should work decently as well, since that's the diameter of the case. I use my .40S&W brush with a patch draped over it, which is a bit loose, but it gets the worst of it out of the chamber.

You will find that it will take a few trips to the range and immediate cleanings to get all the cosmoline out and even then it will still seep every now and then. The heat really brings it out of the metal. I know that some gents "bake" the gun (disassembled, of course) in the oven, on the deck on a hot day, or in a home-built metal garbage can oven. I know of one gent on here that did his SKS in the dishwashing machine without any ill effects to the rifle or the machine (stock included!).

mosineer · 09-20-2007, 08:35 PM

The above methods work fine. There are numerous threads on cleaning tips on this site. I mostly use corrosive ammo and use the Windex and bore brush method. Then clean and oil like any other firearm. And yes, the M-44 is one beautiful fire belching shoulder cannon. Be prepared to be impressed!! You got a nice looking Mosin...Enjoy!!!

*****************************************************
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

Joshua M. Smith · 09-20-2007, 08:46 PM

Thanks all.

I grew up shooting slug guns and got into 3" 12 gauge slugs, so the recoil really isn't an issue. It might be if I shoot on my off shoulder though.

I'm concerned about some crud that got into some crevices where the barrel begins. No matter what I try I can't get it out. It looked like wet sand, and I just sprayed it down really well with Windex. I haven't figured out anything else to do there yet - I can't even get to it with dental picks and such.

Thanks,

Josh <><

just_a_car · 09-20-2007, 08:57 PM

JMS, I've found using either Q-tips works okay or using a normal patch on the end of a pair of tweezers can really get into that crevice.

That crevice is there to allow the extractor to turn with the bolt, I believe, since the extractor extends passed the rim.

Joshua M. Smith · 09-20-2007, 08:59 PM

Thanks!

Josh <><

toolman · 09-20-2007, 09:13 PM

Joshua, welcome to G&G, another method of getting the junk in the cracks and crevices is to use a can of non-chlorinated automotive brake cleaner with the straw attachment. It also helps remove the cosmoline in the wood without hurting it. I've used it on my laminated\shellaced M-44 with no ill effects.

just_a_car · 09-20-2007, 09:23 PM

Personally, I just wipe down my stocks with mineral spirits (which is what I clean the cosmoline off the metal with) and it leaves a lot of the cosmoline in the wood, but leaves a beautiful sheen on the outside and it's no longer sticky. Sure, after firing a bunch of rounds and getting the barrel hot, the inner part of the stock weeps a bit of cosmoline, but I just wipe it out with a little more mineral spirits. Taking all the oil out of the stock is just not good for the wood. If you remove all the cosmoline (which is next to impossible), you'll need to refinish the wood with some sort of oil or preservative. Many like the Tung oil or Boiled Linseed oil for the "old style" look, but modern wood finishes are perfectly fine and work just as well if not better... that's why they're "modern".

.22guy · 09-20-2007, 09:50 PM

Nice rifle there. Be careful, it's hard to just buy one.

Joshua M. Smith · 09-21-2007, 05:20 PM

Hi All,

Thanks for the info.

I decided to save back a bit of the heavy ball as I got the last 20 rounds. I went to buy some other stuff today.

I'm not sure I like what I got. The heavy ball has no laquer on the case mouth, and operates very well. The stuff I got today is Russian (headstamped 60) and is laquered. It appears that this is causing the bolt to stick.

From Russian Mosin Nagant Page & Forums Main Page :

Quote:

Most of the ammo on the market today is coming out of the former Soviet client states in the Balkans. Many people have complained about the lacquer coated ammo causing their bolts to become hard to open. Often, this is a sign of a dirty or badly pitted chamber and is easily corrected by cleaning the chamber correctly.

My chamber is clean, and I cannot see any pitting or corrosion. I was told that this is common in these guns and that I should polish the chamber. I kinda' thought Soviet stuff had generous clearances as is. What are your collective thoughts?

Thanks,

Josh <><

just_a_car · 09-21-2007, 05:28 PM

I use Czech Silvertip which is also laquered. It sticks after the chamber starts getting hot, which usually means there's cosmoline embedded into the metal that I couldn't get out with just the mineral spirits. I'll likely have to hit it with boiling water, oven heat, or dishwasher.

Also, even though our rifles don't have the issue of blowback or flutes, we could still be getting some carbon build-up due to less expansion of the steel. Ref: The Box O' Truth - Educational Zone #18 - Shooting Wolf steel-cased Ammo in an AR15

Joshua M. Smith · 09-21-2007, 06:22 PM

Thanks. I still notice the stuff on cleaning patches so I know it's not out yet.

I bake guns all the time (seriously - part of a pistol cleaning regimen I developed). What temp do you use, and how long?

Thanks,

Josh <><

just_a_car · 09-21-2007, 06:39 PM

Haven't tried heating it myself, but I've heard using the lowest setting on your oven or around 200 degrees F.

tmfun · 09-21-2007, 06:56 PM

Just go to e-bay and type Mosin Nagant in the search field. You can buy stripper clips all day long...Cheap.

troy2000 · 09-21-2007, 09:34 PM

Dang. Pic's of an M39 and an M44 on the same day. And I just picked up my 91/59 today, too. How much more excitement can I handle?

Congrats on the new gun, Josh. If you've been handling slug guns you'll probably do just fine on the Mosins. Although they do tend to kick harder than semi-automatic rifles, because they don't use up energy working the mechanism.

Joshua M. Smith · 09-22-2007, 02:50 PM

I decided to really lay in with the cleaning today.

I started with a regular cleaning which gave me clean patches after about five passes. I wasn't sure where the gunk came from as I had cleaned it yesterday, so I let the bore soak in Hoppes for a few hours.

When I ran another patch through it, I got green again. I kept doing this and eventually got brown, what I assume is Cosmoline. The patches eventually came through clean again.

It's been soaking for a few more hours now. I'm watching it and every half hour there is more crud that surfaces. I figure I'll just run a soaded patch through it now and again and keep it soaking.

The good news is that this thing is beginning to resemble a *new* bore. Maybe it was one that was shot a few times and then never picked up? Dunno. I'm pretty sure some of this stuff has been in there since it was issued in '44.

The chamber has begun cleaning out as well, and ya'll were right: there's brown gunk coming out of it as well. I attached a drill to a 20 gauge bore brush and went at it. I only thought it looked nice before.

I'll keep ya'll updated! This may turn out to be a nicer rifle than I first thought!

Josh <><

09-20-2007, 07:42 PM	#2
FutureMarine9 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: connecticut Posts: 177	sorry i dont have any advice on the ammo but i was wondering what method you used to get the cosmoline out __________________ Semper Fi Anti gun is anti fun

09-20-2007, 07:46 PM	#3
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 379	Lots of paper towels and Hoppes. I've heard kerosene also works well. Just keep it away from the wood. Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher

09-20-2007, 07:57 PM	#4
A-10 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 732	Windex will work because the amonia in it counteracts with the corrosive salts. This will work for corrosive ammo, but so will hot, soapy water. As for another tip, make sure you thouroughly clean the chamber of cosmoline and check for burrs to prevent "sticky bolt syndrom" it probably wouldn't hurt to pollish the chamber with a 20 gauge bore brush, cleaning rod, and power drill. If this is your first centerfire, just be prepared for the recoil. The M44's kick pretty hard. Congradulations on the new piece! __________________ If there's nothing worth dying for, there's nothing worth living for.

09-20-2007, 08:22 PM	#6
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,511	The ammo is likely a Hungarian heavy-ball as you've mentioned, due to the yellow tip, but it's hard to know without seeing the head stamps (numbers/letters around the primer). Usually I shoot the 147gr "light ball" stuff, which won't kick nearly as hard. You can find that info and other great stuff at 7.62x54r.net. They have a specific link about 2/3 down the page for "Ammunition Evaluations". The salts are produced from the Potassium Chlorate in the primer, which turns into Potassium Chloride when fired (like Sodium Chloride, table salt) so all that is truly needed is hot water to 'rinse' the salts out, but using ammonia or soap will help. The ammonia also starts to work on the copper fouling in the barrel left by the copper jacket of the bullet. That will be what the "green-blue" color is on the patch if you use Hoppe's No. 9 to clean the barrel, as it contains ammonia (I use it to clean my Mosins, too). Make sure you clean the rifle AT THE RANGE right after shooting. If you leave it till you get home, you may find that there's already some "frosting" of the barrel. The corrosion occurs very quickly, but you shouldn't be worried as long as you take care of it immediately after shooting. I've heard the 20ga brush works well, but a .45 (or so) brush should work decently as well, since that's the diameter of the case. I use my .40S&W brush with a patch draped over it, which is a bit loose, but it gets the worst of it out of the chamber. You will find that it will take a few trips to the range and immediate cleanings to get all the cosmoline out and even then it will still seep every now and then. The heat really brings it out of the metal. I know that some gents "bake" the gun (disassembled, of course) in the oven, on the deck on a hot day, or in a home-built metal garbage can oven. I know of one gent on here that did his SKS in the dishwashing machine without any ill effects to the rifle or the machine (stock included!). __________________ Last edited by just_a_car; 09-20-2007 at 08:42 PM. Reason: fixing link text

09-20-2007, 08:46 PM	#8
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 379	Thanks all. I grew up shooting slug guns and got into 3" 12 gauge slugs, so the recoil really isn't an issue. It might be if I shoot on my off shoulder though. I'm concerned about some crud that got into some crevices where the barrel begins. No matter what I try I can't get it out. It looked like wet sand, and I just sprayed it down really well with Windex. I haven't figured out anything else to do there yet - I can't even get to it with dental picks and such. Thanks, Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher

09-20-2007, 07:36 PM	#1
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 379	Prime M44 - Came With Everything You See Here Hi All, I found a really nice Russian M44 Mosin-Nagant at what I thought was a reasonable price. No rust was evident as I cleaned the cosmoline off. I'm pretty sure this is what a Russian soldier would have been issued. This ammo has be baffled, but I believe it's the same stuff found here: GunBroker.com guns: 880rd 7.62x54R hungarian yellow tip 182gr leadcore (item: 80929981 ends: Sep-19-07 11:18:20 PM) This is my first centerfire rifle. Any advice would be very appreciated. I'm pretty sure this surplus ammo is corrosive; do I just run a Windex patch down the barrel after shooting it? I do not want to shoot the thing until I know exactly what I'm doing. It'd be nice to find some stripper clips as well. Might have to go back as I think I saw some at the gunstore a while back. So, whatcha' all think? Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher

09-20-2007, 08:17 PM	#5
Kismet Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: rural WI Posts: 158	EAR PROTECTION !!! amonia/water mix is just fine to clean barrel. wipe off bolt at the same time. do what they suggested on chamber. Trust the rifle. After 115 years, they've worked most of the bugs out.

09-20-2007, 08:35 PM	#7
mosineer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 1,299	The above methods work fine. There are numerous threads on cleaning tips on this site. I mostly use corrosive ammo and use the Windex and bore brush method. Then clean and oil like any other firearm. And yes, the M-44 is one beautiful fire belching shoulder cannon. Be prepared to be impressed!! You got a nice looking Mosin...Enjoy!!! *************************************************** All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing**

09-20-2007, 08:57 PM	#9
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,511	JMS, I've found using either Q-tips works okay or using a normal patch on the end of a pair of tweezers can really get into that crevice. That crevice is there to allow the extractor to turn with the bolt, I believe, since the extractor extends passed the rim. __________________

09-20-2007, 08:59 PM	#10
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 379	Thanks! Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher

09-20-2007, 09:13 PM	#11
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,566 Blog Entries: 22	Joshua, welcome to G&G, another method of getting the junk in the cracks and crevices is to use a can of non-chlorinated automotive brake cleaner with the straw attachment. It also helps remove the cosmoline in the wood without hurting it. I've used it on my laminated\shellaced M-44 with no ill effects. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

09-20-2007, 09:23 PM	#12
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,511	Personally, I just wipe down my stocks with mineral spirits (which is what I clean the cosmoline off the metal with) and it leaves a lot of the cosmoline in the wood, but leaves a beautiful sheen on the outside and it's no longer sticky. Sure, after firing a bunch of rounds and getting the barrel hot, the inner part of the stock weeps a bit of cosmoline, but I just wipe it out with a little more mineral spirits. Taking *all* the oil out of the stock is just not good for the wood. If you remove all the cosmoline (which is next to impossible), you'll need to refinish the wood with some sort of oil or preservative. Many like the Tung oil or Boiled Linseed oil for the "old style" look, but modern wood finishes are perfectly fine and work just as well if not better... that's why they're "modern". __________________

09-20-2007, 09:50 PM	#13
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,140	Nice rifle there. Be careful, it's hard to just buy one. __________________ Guns: they are like baseball cards except they are cool and you can kill things with em. -Billy

09-21-2007, 05:28 PM	#15
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,511	I use Czech Silvertip which is also laquered. It sticks after the chamber starts getting hot, which usually means there's cosmoline embedded into the metal that I couldn't get out with just the mineral spirits. I'll likely have to hit it with boiling water, oven heat, or dishwasher. Also, even though our rifles don't have the issue of blowback or flutes, we could still be getting some carbon build-up due to less expansion of the steel. Ref: The Box O' Truth - Educational Zone #18 - Shooting Wolf steel-cased Ammo in an AR15 __________________

09-21-2007, 06:22 PM	#16
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 379	Thanks. I still notice the stuff on cleaning patches so I know it's not out yet. I bake guns all the time (seriously - part of a pistol cleaning regimen I developed). What temp do you use, and how long? Thanks, Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher

09-21-2007, 06:39 PM	#17
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,511	Haven't tried heating it myself, but I've heard using the lowest setting on your oven or around 200 degrees F. __________________

09-21-2007, 06:56 PM	#18
tmfun Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 69	Stripper clips Just go to e-bay and type Mosin Nagant in the search field. You can buy stripper clips all day long...Cheap.

09-21-2007, 09:34 PM	#19
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,406 Images: 9	Dang. Pic's of an M39 and an M44 on the same day. And I just picked up my 91/59 today, too. How much more excitement can I handle? Congrats on the new gun, Josh. If you've been handling slug guns you'll probably do just fine on the Mosins. Although they do tend to kick harder than semi-automatic rifles, because they don't use up energy working the mechanism. __________________ If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. -Anatole France

09-22-2007, 02:50 PM	#20
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 379	I decided to really lay in with the cleaning today. I started with a regular cleaning which gave me clean patches after about five passes. I wasn't sure where the gunk came from as I had cleaned it yesterday, so I let the bore soak in Hoppes for a few hours. When I ran another patch through it, I got green again. I kept doing this and eventually got brown, what I assume is Cosmoline. The patches eventually came through clean again. It's been soaking for a few more hours now. I'm watching it and every half hour there is more crud that surfaces. I figure I'll just run a soaded patch through it now and again and keep it soaking. The good news is that this thing is beginning to resemble a new bore. Maybe it was one that was shot a few times and then never picked up? Dunno. I'm pretty sure some of this stuff has been in there since it was issued in '44. The chamber has begun cleaning out as well, and ya'll were right: there's brown gunk coming out of it as well. I attached a drill to a 20 gauge bore brush and went at it. I only thought it looked nice before. I'll keep ya'll updated! This may turn out to be a nicer rifle than I first thought! Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher