Ammo or head space problem? (see picture)

ingous · 02-15-2008, 10:02 PM

Some time in the fall I went out to the range and shot my M44 for the first time. I was shooting Wolf 180gr FMJ and everything went fine. Had a great time with my Mosin at a great outdoor range near Chicago. Great weather, great company, not too many people at the range. As a habit I collect my brass after I shoot even so I don't reload (yet), but I kind of glance them over when I get home (great opportunity for a beer). When I checked my fired rounds I found the one of which I attach the picture. Good sized crack on the round. I am wondering if I am facing a head space problem or if I caught one of "Wolf's finest". So far I have fired about 80 rounds with my M44 and this is the only "problem case" that I am aware of. Any input is appreciated!

Mooseman684 · 02-15-2008, 11:02 PM

The picture did not attach, but what you are describing is a split case neck, which happens with this round...7.62X54R headspaces on the rim, not the shoulder, so splits can occur. That Brass is usually steel case and Berdan Primed , so it is not Reloadable...
Rich

Hawkeye sniper · 02-15-2008, 11:15 PM

Mooseman hit the nail on the head. I've had this happen in my 91/30 with steel cased Barnaul. Try to send the pick again. How does your M44 shoot with the Wolf? I have some that I havent tried yet.

marion57 · 02-15-2008, 11:46 PM

Moose hit it on the head!!I have even had some bulgarian split on me so isnt unusual or a problem

Zephri · 02-16-2008, 12:03 AM

I've had the same thing happen in all of my mosins once in a while with steel cased ammo, as everyone else has here. It's perfectly normal.

SwedeSteve · 02-16-2008, 12:23 AM

You guys, his pic is the "paperclip" on his thread title.
Haven't shot any steel case so can't say...

Mooseman684 · 02-16-2008, 12:47 AM

Well Now I see it in the paperclip...He forgot to Highlight it and click on it after uploading so it showed on his post...
I was right...a split neck...I must be Psychic...
LOL
Rich

marion57 · 02-16-2008, 06:37 AM

Yepper and you can quit collecting those there not reloadable!!

SwedeSteve · 02-16-2008, 09:21 AM

Psycho? No I don't think so Moose. Oh, I see psychic !! Marion, I think he picks them up just to have a look see over a tall frosty one. Moose, my pics are doing weird things as well.

samuel · 02-16-2008, 09:28 AM

Good ole Mooseman!!! If you can pick your emties up with a magnet or they have two fireholes dont try to reload.In my case that 'ole' was a figure of speech. sam.

ingous · 02-16-2008, 09:54 AM

Thank you all for the feedback and sorry about the picture. First time I tried to post one.

Just to clarify, I wasn't planning to reload the steel ones. Just out of habit I pick-up all my fired rounds, steel or brass. The steel once are later thrown out.

marion57 · 02-16-2008, 11:43 AM

Good habit too bad everyone dont pick up there spent shell casings

SwedeSteve · 02-16-2008, 12:29 PM

I agree marion! I used to take my peewee kids to a well known shooting spot. When finished, we picked up after ourselves, Then they had to "Go get 2 Handfulls" extra. A few months ago, I watched my now 27 year old son go over and pick up a few shot up cans (not ours), and throw them in the back of the truck when we finished shooting. Made me proud I gotta tell ya! PS- Dad remembered to go get 2 handfulls as well!

ingous · 02-17-2008, 11:44 AM

Leave the place the way you want to find it when you first arrive.

Mike82 · 02-18-2008, 01:46 AM

I like to hang cans from a tree limb, so when you shoot one you dont have to go stand it back up <<<genius>>>

Fishing line works great, harder to hit the line.

wunhunglo · 02-18-2008, 02:38 AM

Ammo or head space problem?
Ingous and others, seems nobody mentioned the actual signs of Headspace problems to the guys. I understand that it was simply a case neck crack which is very common on cases which haven't been sufficiently annealed or have hardened over the years.
Headspace problems, usually with excessive headspace you will have "Blown" primers or even get the "belted magnum" look, where the case head has expanded too much or in the worse case scenario you get a case head separation or blowout! That's what the holes on the side of the receiver are for. (actually I'm assuming a little bit here cos I've never owned a Mosin but do have Mauser & Enfield actions)

Mike82 · 02-18-2008, 02:45 AM

then get outta the mosin-nagant forums,
you...you...you...NON-MOSIN-ER!!!!!

hehe jk

is this worth gettin? or getting 2 of....
Russian 1895 Nagant Revolver, in 7.62 Nagant caliber.

it says if you buy 2+, u get for $75, but then it states the "fugly" UPS s/h charges on handguns

the jump in price on the s/h for 2, to the one for 3, is like $35. that seems stupid IMHO....but oh well, 2 for $75/each, plus s/h, plus $30 so UPS feels safe....GAHH, too many separate charges....my brain hurts

wunhunglo · 02-18-2008, 04:32 AM

[quotethen get outta the mosin-nagant forums,
you...you...you...NON-MOSIN-ER!!!!!

hehe jk

][/quote]

But I need to learn! One day I may be tempted to buy one of these old pieces and find out why so many are so passionate about them!

marion57 · 02-18-2008, 04:53 AM

Hey Mike just get two and send one to me LOL.. easier to figure that way

Ohh yeah its a good price !

Mike82 · 02-18-2008, 08:58 AM

Yeah i bet it's a good price for you if i'm paying

......and learn away wunghole....errrr how you spell it again?

02-15-2008, 11:02 PM	#2
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	The picture did not attach, but what you are describing is a split case neck, which happens with this round...7.62X54R headspaces on the rim, not the shoulder, so splits can occur. That Brass is usually steel case and Berdan Primed , so it is not Reloadable... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-16-2008, 12:03 AM	#5
Zephri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN. "The city where nothing happens." Posts: 1,087 Blog Entries: 6	I've had the same thing happen in all of my mosins once in a while with steel cased ammo, as everyone else has here. It's perfectly normal. __________________ "All rifles need a sharp pointy object on the end!" http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/zephri/

02-16-2008, 12:23 AM	#6
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,283 Images: 1	You guys, his pic is the "paperclip" on his thread title. Haven't shot any steel case so can't say... __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-16-2008, 12:47 AM	#7
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	Well Now I see it in the paperclip...He forgot to Highlight it and click on it after uploading so it showed on his post... I was right...a split neck...I must be Psychic... LOL Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-16-2008, 09:21 AM	#9
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,283 Images: 1	Psycho? No I don't think so Moose. Oh, I see psychic !! Marion, I think he picks them up just to have a look see over a tall frosty one. Moose, my pics are doing weird things as well. __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-15-2008, 11:15 PM	#3
Hawkeye sniper Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 27	Mooseman hit the nail on the head. I've had this happen in my 91/30 with steel cased Barnaul. Try to send the pick again. How does your M44 shoot with the Wolf? I have some that I havent tried yet.

02-15-2008, 11:46 PM	#4
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,865	Moose hit it on the head!!I have even had some bulgarian split on me so isnt unusual or a problem

02-16-2008, 06:37 AM	#8
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,865	Yepper and you can quit collecting those there not reloadable!!

02-16-2008, 09:28 AM	#10
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	Good ole Mooseman!!! If you can pick your emties up with a magnet or they have two fireholes dont try to reload.In my case that 'ole' was a figure of speech. sam.

02-16-2008, 09:54 AM	#11
ingous Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MN Posts: 526	Thank you all for the feedback and sorry about the picture. First time I tried to post one. Just to clarify, I wasn't planning to reload the steel ones. Just out of habit I pick-up all my fired rounds, steel or brass. The steel once are later thrown out. Last edited by ingous; 02-16-2008 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

02-16-2008, 11:43 AM	#12
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,865	Good habit too bad everyone dont pick up there spent shell casings

02-16-2008, 12:29 PM	#13
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,283 Images: 1	I agree marion! I used to take my peewee kids to a well known shooting spot. When finished, we picked up after ourselves, Then they had to "Go get 2 Handfulls" extra. A few months ago, I watched my now 27 year old son go over and pick up a few shot up cans (not ours), and throw them in the back of the truck when we finished shooting. Made me proud I gotta tell ya! PS- Dad remembered to go get 2 handfulls as well! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-17-2008, 11:44 AM	#14
ingous Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MN Posts: 526	Leave the place the way you want to find it when you first arrive.

02-18-2008, 01:46 AM	#15
Mike82 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vicksburg, Mississippi USA Posts: 1,019 Images: 7	shooting cans.... I like to hang cans from a tree limb, so when you shoot one you dont have to go stand it back up <<<genius>>> Fishing line works great, harder to hit the line. __________________ No Trespassing! Violators Will Be Shot! Survivors Will Be Shot Again!

02-18-2008, 02:38 AM	#16
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 1,650	Ammo or head space problem? Ingous and others, seems nobody mentioned the actual signs of Headspace problems to the guys. I understand that it was simply a case neck crack which is very common on cases which haven't been sufficiently annealed or have hardened over the years. Headspace problems, usually with excessive headspace you will have "Blown" primers or even get the "belted magnum" look, where the case head has expanded too much or in the worse case scenario you get a case head separation or blowout! That's what the holes on the side of the receiver are for. (actually I'm assuming a little bit here cos I've never owned a Mosin but do have Mauser & Enfield actions)

02-18-2008, 02:45 AM	#17
Mike82 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vicksburg, Mississippi USA Posts: 1,019 Images: 7	then get outta the mosin-nagant forums, you...you...you...NON-MOSIN-ER!!!!! hehe jk is this worth gettin? or getting 2 of.... Russian 1895 Nagant Revolver, in 7.62 Nagant caliber. it says if you buy 2+, u get for $75, but then it states the "fugly" UPS s/h charges on handguns the jump in price on the s/h for 2, to the one for 3, is like $35. that seems stupid IMHO....but oh well, 2 for $75/each, plus s/h, plus $30 so UPS feels safe....GAHH, too many separate charges....my brain hurts __________________ No Trespassing! Violators Will Be Shot! Survivors Will Be Shot Again! Last edited by Mike82; 02-18-2008 at 02:50 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

02-18-2008, 04:32 AM	#18
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 1,650	[quotethen get outta the mosin-nagant forums, you...you...you...NON-MOSIN-ER!!!!! hehe jk ][/quote] But I need to learn! One day I may be tempted to buy one of these old pieces and find out why so many are so passionate about them!

02-18-2008, 04:53 AM	#19
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,865	Hey Mike just get two and send one to me LOL.. easier to figure that way Ohh yeah its a good price ! Last edited by marion57; 02-18-2008 at 04:54 AM. Reason: add

02-18-2008, 08:58 AM	#20
Mike82 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vicksburg, Mississippi USA Posts: 1,019 Images: 7	I am the great Wungholio!!! ROFL Yeah i bet it's a good price for you if i'm paying ......and learn away wunghole....errrr how you spell it again? __________________ No Trespassing! Violators Will Be Shot! Survivors Will Be Shot Again!