Is there a significant velocity difference between an M44 and a 91/30?

Ballbearing · 02-20-2008, 12:57 AM

Just how much power does the shorter barrel cost you? And what about range? I figure the 91/30 has to be superior, but by how much?

SwedeSteve · 02-20-2008, 01:05 AM

Generally speaking, there is a loss of about 200fps between the M91/30 and the M44. Remember, generally speaking! But good enough for cipherin'

Mooseman684 · 02-20-2008, 01:07 AM

You lose maybe 300 Fps....But the basic trajectory is the same... you will only notice it out about 400 to 500 Yards...
Rich

SwedeSteve · 02-20-2008, 01:11 AM

Mooseman684 · 02-20-2008, 01:15 AM

300 fps is about the most you will lose in velocity....100 -300 fps loss is not uncommon...I went the max !
Rich

SwedeSteve · 02-20-2008, 01:24 AM

Ahhh Sooo Master! I think the carbines don't burn a LOT of the powder anyway in the milsurp ammo. I have noticed a greater total burn with modern powders. What say you?

Ballbearing · 02-20-2008, 01:27 AM

So i take it that i should use loads with lighter bullets in my M44 to obtain maximum velocity without increasing chamber pressures, right?

SwedeSteve · 02-20-2008, 01:33 AM

Well, I am not sure that applies. I reload, so I apply the correct powder, with the right burn rate to obtain max vwlocity in a given barrel. Moose is THE man when it comes to this, so listen to his advice!

Mooseman684 · 02-20-2008, 01:41 AM

Faster burning powder with regular bullets...
The slight difference is not enough to worry about so I shoot cheap Mil Surplus ammo in all of mine...The M44 Flash /Fireball is awesome ! LOL
Rich

just_a_car · 02-20-2008, 01:48 AM

You can also take a look here: 7.62x54r Ammunition Evaluations at the muzzle velocities of different ammo out of many different Mosins. that will give you an idea of what your ammo will do in your rifle, as some ammo performs better in different rifles.

Ballbearing · 02-20-2008, 01:49 AM

Any particular type of surplus ammo you recommend Mooseman? I bought the Bulgarian because that's all he had at the time, just one spam can. Also, what about commercial ammo, (Remington, Winchester, Federal, Norma, etc.)is any of it any good?

BTW, excellent site Just A Car, i saved it so i can print it out later (out of paper at the moment).

Mooseman684 · 02-20-2008, 01:55 AM

I like Russian Ammo and Brass Cased Albanian, as well as Heavy Ball Hungarian or Bulgarian...Not much on U.S.Made ammo, not many people stock it up here....I pull bullets, and put in 150 gr. Softnose for hunting in the 147 gr. ammo...
Rich

just_a_car · 02-20-2008, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballbearing

BTW, excellent site Just A Car, i saved it so i can print it out later (out of paper at the moment).

I wouldn't print it out, personally. Each of those links has many pages worth of material. Plus, the person that runs it updates it when they get new ammo to try out. I'd suggest just checking back regularly, or just printing out the most relevant ammo pages, such as the ones you're shooting.

As such, depending on which one you got, here's the Bulgarian pages:
Bulgarian 1955 7.62x54r Lead Core Light Ball
Bulgarian 1987 7.62x54r Steel Core Light Ball
Bulgarian 1955 7.62x54r Lead Core Heavy Ball

Ballbearing · 02-20-2008, 02:12 AM

Mine is headstamped 10 at 12 o'clock and 54 at 6 o'clock. I figure it's Bulgarian lead core because it has a yellow tipped bullet.

marion57 · 02-20-2008, 06:35 AM

As JAC said all that info on ammo is on 7.62x54r.net and yes 10 is bulgarian 1954

just_a_car · 02-20-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballbearing

Mine is headstamped 10 at 12 o'clock and 54 at 6 o'clock. I figure it's Bulgarian lead core because it has a yellow tipped bullet.

Sounds like the lead core heavy ball, which is listed as getting 2621 fps out of the m91/30 and 2499 fps out of the m44, so only a difference of 122 fps on average. Maybe the heavy ball takes a little longer to get out of the barrel and allows the powder to burn more completely?...

Cyrano · 02-20-2008, 07:54 AM

The big difference seems to be that the M44 comes with an integral bayonet and the 91/30 doesn't, and the fireball out of the M44 is bigger than that of the 91/30. At hunting distances, I doubt the deer is going to notice a real difference between a bullet impacting in the 2600 fps range and one in the 2450 fps range! But I would like to know if anyone is making hollowpoint 7.62x54R ammo for hunting and if any tests on enegry transfer, wound channels and that sort of thing have been made.

Geo M44 · 02-20-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

The big difference seems to be that the M44 comes with an integral bayonet and the 91/30 doesn't, and the fireball out of the M44 is bigger than that of the 91/30. At hunting distances, I doubt the deer is going to notice a real difference between a bullet impacting in the 2600 fps range and one in the 2450 fps range! But I would like to know if anyone is making hollowpoint 7.62x54R ammo for hunting and if any tests on enegry transfer, wound channels and that sort of thing have been made.

Cyrano,

I reload using Sierra .311, 174gr HPBT Match. It seems to be slightly more accurate at 100 yards than Speer .311, 180gr SP. The Sierra bullets are about $3 higher for 100 rounds.

marion57 · 02-20-2008, 11:20 AM

lot of 7.62x 39 hp but never saw any 54r except hand loads

just_a_car · 02-20-2008, 01:55 PM

Does it have to be HP or will SP work for your hunting needs?...

Both J&G and ATG have it:
7.62x54R
SOFT POINT AMMO CLICK HERE : Ammunition To Go

02-20-2008, 12:57 AM	#1
Ballbearing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Boondocks Posts: 125 Trader Rating: (0)	Is there a significant velocity difference between an M44 and a 91/30? Just how much power does the shorter barrel cost you? And what about range? I figure the 91/30 has to be superior, but by how much?

02-20-2008, 01:05 AM	#2
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (0)	Generally speaking, there is a loss of about 200fps between the M91/30 and the M44. Remember, generally speaking! But good enough for cipherin' __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-20-2008, 01:07 AM	#3
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,266 Trader Rating: (0)	You lose maybe 300 Fps....But the basic trajectory is the same... you will only notice it out about 400 to 500 Yards... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-20-2008, 01:11 AM	#4
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (0)	300? __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-20-2008, 01:15 AM	#5
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,266 Trader Rating: (0)	300 fps is about the most you will lose in velocity....100 -300 fps loss is not uncommon...I went the max ! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-20-2008, 01:24 AM	#6
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (0)	Ahhh Sooo Master! I think the carbines don't burn a LOT of the powder anyway in the milsurp ammo. I have noticed a greater total burn with modern powders. What say you? __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-20-2008, 01:27 AM	#7
Ballbearing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Boondocks Posts: 125 Trader Rating: (0)	So i take it that i should use loads with lighter bullets in my M44 to obtain maximum velocity without increasing chamber pressures, right?

02-20-2008, 01:33 AM	#8
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (0)	Well, I am not sure that applies. I reload, so I apply the correct powder, with the right burn rate to obtain max vwlocity in a given barrel. Moose is THE man when it comes to this, so listen to his advice! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-20-2008, 01:41 AM	#9
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,266 Trader Rating: (0)	Faster burning powder with regular bullets... The slight difference is not enough to worry about so I shoot cheap Mil Surplus ammo in all of mine...The M44 Flash /Fireball is awesome ! LOL Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-20-2008, 01:48 AM	#10
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,414 Trader Rating: (0)	You can also take a look here: 7.62x54r Ammunition Evaluations at the muzzle velocities of different ammo out of many different Mosins. that will give you an idea of what your ammo will do in your rifle, as some ammo performs better in different rifles. __________________

02-20-2008, 01:49 AM	#11
Ballbearing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Boondocks Posts: 125 Trader Rating: (0)	Any particular type of surplus ammo you recommend Mooseman? I bought the Bulgarian because that's all he had at the time, just one spam can. Also, what about commercial ammo, (Remington, Winchester, Federal, Norma, etc.)is any of it any good? BTW, excellent site Just A Car, i saved it so i can print it out later (out of paper at the moment). Last edited by Ballbearing; 02-20-2008 at 01:55 AM.

02-20-2008, 01:55 AM	#12
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,266 Trader Rating: (0)	I like Russian Ammo and Brass Cased Albanian, as well as Heavy Ball Hungarian or Bulgarian...Not much on U.S.Made ammo, not many people stock it up here....I pull bullets, and put in 150 gr. Softnose for hunting in the 147 gr. ammo... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-20-2008, 02:12 AM	#14
Ballbearing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Boondocks Posts: 125 Trader Rating: (0)	Mine is headstamped 10 at 12 o'clock and 54 at 6 o'clock. I figure it's Bulgarian lead core because it has a yellow tipped bullet.

02-20-2008, 06:35 AM	#15
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,692 Trader Rating: (0)	As JAC said all that info on ammo is on 7.62x54r.net and yes 10 is bulgarian 1954

02-20-2008, 07:54 AM	#17
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,959 Trader Rating: (0)	The big difference seems to be that the M44 comes with an integral bayonet and the 91/30 doesn't, and the fireball out of the M44 is bigger than that of the 91/30. At hunting distances, I doubt the deer is going to notice a real difference between a bullet impacting in the 2600 fps range and one in the 2450 fps range! But I would like to know if anyone is making hollowpoint 7.62x54R ammo for hunting and if any tests on enegry transfer, wound channels and that sort of thing have been made.

02-20-2008, 11:20 AM	#19
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,692 Trader Rating: (0)	lot of 7.62x 39 hp but never saw any 54r except hand loads

02-20-2008, 01:55 PM	#20
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,414 Trader Rating: (0)	Does it have to be HP or will SP work for your hunting needs?... Both J&G and ATG have it: 7.62x54R SOFT POINT AMMO CLICK HERE : Ammunition To Go __________________