Gunsmith's warning re: Sticky Mosin Bolts

Cyrano · 02-24-2008, 06:03 PM

I saw a friend of mine this weekend for the first time in awhile. I know him through our mutial interest in medieval recreation; we often talk swords and knives, and I knew he was a shooter. But I didn't realize he had a Mosin.

Colin had this story to tell about his 91/30.

He bought it in the cosmoline, took it home, field-stripped it and cleaned it with an auto parts cleaner at the local garage, following up with carbuerator cleaner for the small parts. He reassembled it and took it to the range.

After he'd run about 20 rounds of lacquered milsurp through it, Colin discovered his Mosin had a case of 2x4 Bolt. He beat it open, stripped down the bolt, cleaned it again, and found it didn't make a lot of difference in terms of working the action. So he called a gunsmith he does work for on wood stocks for, to see if he had any ideas why it was behaving like that.

This gunsmith specializes in building custom guns. Average price of one of his pieces is $20,000 to $30,000. The smith told him to detail-strip the 91/30, clean every part until hell wouldn't have it again, lube everything carefully and reassemble the rifle. That would probably solve the problem. But he added this warning.

"If after firing four or five rounds you find your Mosin still has a case of 2x4 Bolt, promise me you'll get the action open, unload the rifle, clean and oil it, and then hang it on the wall and never, ever shoot it again. Sometimes it's a headspace issue, but in my experience that behavior in a Mosin-Nagant means one or more of the bolt lugs is cracked and is just before breaking off. If you force the action closed and squeeze off a round, what could happen is that lug breaks and the remaining lugs can't take the pressure. When that happens, the bolt flies straight back through your eye, your head, the person standing behind you and embeds itself in the tree behind the firing line, and you end up very, very dead."

As it happened, Colin's trouble was due to the adverse combination of lacquered ammo cases and residual comoline forming the 'glue' I've read about here. He's had no further trouble from his Mosin.

What I'm wondering is if anyone has ever heard of a Mosin-Nagant bolt failing in the manner Colin's gunsmith friend described. I've heard lots of shooters tell me Mosin bolts are stiff until you get every last cosmoline molecule out of the action. But knowing what I do about combat soldiers and how they feel about equipment that doesn't work as designed, I find it hard to believe any of them would put up with the 2x4 Bolt level of stiffness many M-N shooters seem to think is routine.

Mooseman684 · 02-24-2008, 06:14 PM

That so called Gunsmith is full of Crap...I Say it can't happen due to the bolt design and if the ears on the bolt head broke, the main body is held by the bolt handle in front of the receiver on the right side. The bolt handle would have to be Up and the trigger pulled when it went off...and that aint gonna happen...even if the linking piece shattered, it still cant come out the back!
Rich

texnmidwest · 02-24-2008, 07:00 PM

This is why I respect gunsmiths like Mooseman.

Most gunsmiths scare me. There are a lot of people calling themselves gunsmiths that took some classes and didn't learn a thing yet talk like they know. Like the one who tried to tell me that no single shot could shoot with a bolt gun. I just had a bad box of ammo. Went bought new ammo and my inaccurate single shot was shooting sub MOA...again.

billy · 02-24-2008, 07:04 PM

besides moose is a nice guy.
such a nice guy he has been nominated for the title st.moose!

texnmidwest · 02-24-2008, 07:09 PM

Ya, and if he hadn't had that little trist with that gal in St. Joe he would be ST. Moose, instead of st. moose.

Mooseman684 · 02-24-2008, 07:09 PM

As an added Note, You can easily inspect the actual bolt head for any signs of cracking, and Replace it if necessary with a new one...I keep a spare just to have on hand...Never seen one crack yet even shooting MG Ammo...
Rich

texnmidwest · 02-24-2008, 07:12 PM

Hey Moose, Why does the moose in your avitar look like it just passed a kidney stone?

billy · 02-24-2008, 07:13 PM

it's balancing a nice drink for him.

Mooseman684 · 02-24-2008, 07:14 PM

Kidney Stone ??? No, he's just trying to get me off his Butt.....

texnmidwest · 02-24-2008, 07:17 PM

Now Moose. Isn't that a little kinky? I believe there is a law against that kind of thing.

ArkansasHunter · 02-24-2008, 07:17 PM

We should call Moose Professor Moose !!! I agree with billy that Moose is a good and cool man.
And you can't beat the free advice either LOL...A.H LOL !

Mooseman684 · 02-24-2008, 07:26 PM

Thanks Guys...I didn't have my gun with me so I was trying to bulldog that moose to the ground so I could use my pocketknife on him, but I wanted to ride him first....

texnmidwest · 02-24-2008, 07:36 PM

LMAO!!!! Dang, I knew you Alaskan guys were tough. Now I know ya'll are almost as tough as Texans!!! We jump out of trees onto the backs or wild boars wielding nothing but a huntin' knife! We DO wear loin cloths for modesty.

samuel · 02-24-2008, 07:42 PM

You have my vote Mooseman,no matter what and I hope you whupped that moose good. Cyrano:$20k to$30k custom rifles?That gunsmith is either rich enough not to need to sell a gun or he is starving.When talking to this friend of yours,I advise talking about swords and leaving the guns out of it. sam.

Mooseman684 · 02-24-2008, 07:43 PM

Alaskans jump on big game 1/2 Naked with our Mosin Bayonets....

We define "Tough"...

gregkilo · 02-24-2008, 07:54 PM

what tough?

SwedeSteve · 02-24-2008, 07:56 PM

^^+1! And BE CAREFUL where you stash your bayonet! Ouch!

texnmidwest · 02-24-2008, 07:58 PM

I bow to sir Moose! I know when I have been bested. Now,

marion57 · 02-24-2008, 10:51 PM

WOW!!naked?? bayo?? wild boars?? Funny stuff LOL
I doubt that gunsmith knows his butt from a hole in the ground!!
That bolt is built like a tank with double lug so doubt it could be a problem and as was stated the bolt cant come flying out DUH!!Maybe if you load your rounds with c4 ????

SwedeSteve · 02-25-2008, 10:14 AM

I think this was a case of the gunsmith trying to impress someone and stuck his foot in it!

02-24-2008, 06:03 PM	#1
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 2,296	Gunsmith's warning re: Sticky Mosin Bolts I saw a friend of mine this weekend for the first time in awhile. I know him through our mutial interest in medieval recreation; we often talk swords and knives, and I knew he was a shooter. But I didn't realize he had a Mosin. Colin had this story to tell about his 91/30. He bought it in the cosmoline, took it home, field-stripped it and cleaned it with an auto parts cleaner at the local garage, following up with carbuerator cleaner for the small parts. He reassembled it and took it to the range. After he'd run about 20 rounds of lacquered milsurp through it, Colin discovered his Mosin had a case of 2x4 Bolt. He beat it open, stripped down the bolt, cleaned it again, and found it didn't make a lot of difference in terms of working the action. So he called a gunsmith he does work for on wood stocks for, to see if he had any ideas why it was behaving like that. This gunsmith specializes in building custom guns. Average price of one of his pieces is $20,000 to $30,000. The smith told him to detail-strip the 91/30, clean every part until hell wouldn't have it again, lube everything carefully and reassemble the rifle. That would probably solve the problem. But he added this warning. "If after firing four or five rounds you find your Mosin still has a case of 2x4 Bolt, promise me you'll get the action open, unload the rifle, clean and oil it, and then hang it on the wall and never, ever shoot it again. Sometimes it's a headspace issue, but in my experience that behavior in a Mosin-Nagant means one or more of the bolt lugs is cracked and is just before breaking off. If you force the action closed and squeeze off a round, what could happen is that lug breaks and the remaining lugs can't take the pressure. When that happens, the bolt flies straight back through your eye, your head, the person standing behind you and embeds itself in the tree behind the firing line, and you end up very, very dead." As it happened, Colin's trouble was due to the adverse combination of lacquered ammo cases and residual comoline forming the 'glue' I've read about here. He's had no further trouble from his Mosin. What I'm wondering is if anyone has ever heard of a Mosin-Nagant bolt failing in the manner Colin's gunsmith friend described. I've heard lots of shooters tell me Mosin bolts are stiff until you get every last cosmoline molecule out of the action. But knowing what I do about combat soldiers and how they feel about equipment that doesn't work as designed, I find it hard to believe any of them would put up with the 2x4 Bolt level of stiffness many M-N shooters seem to think is routine.

02-24-2008, 06:14 PM	#2
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	That so called Gunsmith is full of Crap...I Say it can't happen due to the bolt design and if the ears on the bolt head broke, the main body is held by the bolt handle in front of the receiver on the right side. The bolt handle would have to be Up and the trigger pulled when it went off...and that aint gonna happen...even if the linking piece shattered, it still cant come out the back! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-24-2008, 07:00 PM	#3
texnmidwest Listen to yur Inner Hippo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 3,395	This is why I respect gunsmiths like Mooseman. Most gunsmiths scare me. There are a lot of people calling themselves gunsmiths that took some classes and didn't learn a thing yet talk like they know. Like the one who tried to tell me that no single shot could shoot with a bolt gun. I just had a bad box of ammo. Went bought new ammo and my inaccurate single shot was shooting sub MOA...again. __________________ "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (If all else fails play dead)

02-24-2008, 07:04 PM	#4
billy spiritual counselor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 11,978 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 146	besides moose is a nice guy. such a nice guy he has been nominated for the title st.moose! __________________ just leave britney ALONE! she's going thru a hard time snivel sniff....WAH

02-24-2008, 07:09 PM	#5
texnmidwest Listen to yur Inner Hippo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 3,395	Ya, and if he hadn't had that little trist with that gal in St. Joe he would be ST. Moose, instead of st. moose. __________________ "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (If all else fails play dead)

02-24-2008, 07:12 PM	#7
texnmidwest Listen to yur Inner Hippo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 3,395	Hey Moose, Why does the moose in your avitar look like it just passed a kidney stone? __________________ "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (If all else fails play dead)

02-24-2008, 07:13 PM	#8
billy spiritual counselor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 11,978 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 146	it's balancing a nice drink for him. __________________ just leave britney ALONE! she's going thru a hard time snivel sniff....WAH

02-24-2008, 07:14 PM	#9
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	Kidney Stone ??? No, he's just trying to get me off his Butt..... __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-24-2008, 07:17 PM	#10
texnmidwest Listen to yur Inner Hippo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 3,395	Now Moose. Isn't that a little kinky? I believe there is a law against that kind of thing. __________________ "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (If all else fails play dead)

02-24-2008, 07:17 PM	#11
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,678	We should call Moose Professor Moose !!! I agree with billy that Moose is a good and cool man. And you can't beat the free advice either LOL...A.H LOL !

02-24-2008, 07:26 PM	#12
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	Thanks Guys...I didn't have my gun with me so I was trying to bulldog that moose to the ground so I could use my pocketknife on him, but I wanted to ride him first.... __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-24-2008, 07:36 PM	#13
texnmidwest Listen to yur Inner Hippo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 3,395	LMAO!!!! Dang, I knew you Alaskan guys were tough. Now I know ya'll are almost as tough as Texans!!! We jump out of trees onto the backs or wild boars wielding nothing but a huntin' knife! We DO wear loin cloths for modesty. __________________ "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (If all else fails play dead)

02-24-2008, 07:42 PM	#14
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	You have my vote Mooseman,no matter what and I hope you whupped that moose good. Cyrano:$20k to$30k custom rifles?That gunsmith is either rich enough not to need to sell a gun or he is starving.When talking to this friend of yours,I advise talking about swords and leaving the guns out of it. sam.

02-24-2008, 07:43 PM	#15
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	Alaskans jump on big game 1/2 Naked with our Mosin Bayonets.... We define "Tough"... __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-24-2008, 07:54 PM	#16
gregkilo Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cherokee Co. Alabama Posts: 67	what tough?

02-24-2008, 07:56 PM	#17
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,300 Images: 1	^^+1! And BE CAREFUL where you stash your bayonet! Ouch! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-24-2008, 07:58 PM	#18
texnmidwest Listen to yur Inner Hippo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 3,395	I bow to sir Moose! I know when I have been bested. Now, __________________ "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (If all else fails play dead)

02-24-2008, 10:51 PM	#19
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,865	WOW!!naked?? bayo?? wild boars?? Funny stuff LOL I doubt that gunsmith knows his butt from a hole in the ground!! That bolt is built like a tank with double lug so doubt it could be a problem and as was stated the bolt cant come flying out DUH!!Maybe if you load your rounds with c4 ????

02-25-2008, 10:14 AM	#20
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,300 Images: 1	I think this was a case of the gunsmith trying to impress someone and stuck his foot in it! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers