Figuring out my M44 - rings and headspace

[Svashtar]

Hey Guys,

Being on other forums and getting a lot of newbie questions from folks who haven't bothered to research can be frustrating, so I tried not to do that here. After reading a bunch I think I have most of the info I need, but just a couple of questions.

(I can see how you guys get addicted to these! My friends from Bladeforums turned me onto these so I finally got my M44 the other day.)

I guess I should have researched _first_ for a post war M44, but didn't know about that, so just picked the best of the 4 I had to choose from at Big 5 for $89. There were two marked Good and were pretty trashed, while 2 were marked Very Good. I picked the VG one with the brightest bore. It is a Izhevsk M44 round receiver marked 1945. Like I said, I guess a post-war would have been neat, but this one is really clean. The stock is in great condition. No dings or scratches at all. Kit came with a good sling with supple leather, oiler, the ammo pouches and the cleaning tools, but no pouch for the tools.

I plan on cleaning the metal and bore with Hoppes #9 and Kroil. Hot water and citrus cleaner took care of all the cosmo on the accessories.

My plan after talking to my friend Bill who has successfully taken 3 deer with his was to clean up and refinish the stock, but I just had a B-day and my son surprised me with an ATI stock! I had mentioned it to him when we bought the rifle, but had privately decided to first try and refinish the wood stock instead. And there's not a lot of oil on the wood, so should be pretty easy. The synthetic stock is not nearly as "neat" as the original, but feels great and the pad and swivel studs are a plus. Fit was drop in and very good. Ideally I want to shoot it with both setups.

So question #1, I got the bayonet off, but don't see any way to get the barrel rings off without ruining them? The bayo mount is in the way, and I see removing it is not recommended. I'll just have to play with the front sight if windage has been affected by removing the bayonet.

And #2, of course I disassembled the bolt, and now have to get it back together somehow and use the blade tool to check the headspace, is that correct? The firing pin should be screwed out until it touches at the "75" mark? Thanks for any tips on this.

Overall I'm very pleased. I still plan on cleaning, sanding and refinishing the wood stock, and I'd like to be able to put it back to factory, but that might not be an option if I have to bend the rings.

Thanks for any info, and sorry for the long post. I tend to over-communicate.

Norm

[sh4d0ww4rri0r]

THe blade tool is used to measure the length of protrusion of the firing pin over the bolt head. That pin should hit the lower of the two center notches.

Headspace is a totally different issue and I advise you see a gunsmith regarding that.

The firing pin should be screwed until it is flush with the back of the cocking piece and the markings line up. pictures here in the reassembly portion: Mosin Nagant Rifle Exploded Views and Disassembly

To read more about headspace please see this:

Surplusrifle.com - Measuring Headspace

I hope this helps!

[Svashtar]

Originally Posted by sh4d0ww4rri0r

THe blade tool is used to measure the length of protrusion of the firing pin over the bolt head. That pin should hit the lower of the two center notches.

Headspace is a totally different issue and I advise you see a gunsmith regarding that.

The firing pin should be screwed until it is flush with the back of the cocking piece and the markings line up. pictures here in the reassembly portion: Mosin Nagant Rifle Exploded Views and Disassembly

To read more about headspace please see this:

Surplusrifle.com - Measuring Headspace

I hope this helps!

It does help, and I should know better, thank you. I was incorrectly assuming that taking the bolt down and putting it back together could affect the headspace. Ideally I would have at least Go and No Go gauges on hand, but those would probably cost me almost as much as the rifle LOL!

Just made a phone call to my local gunsmith and he will charge me a whole $4 to check the headspace! I assumed Century would do it, but evidently milsurp rifles as C&R items are not required to have the headspace checked? News to me...

Thanks again for the info and the links. :thumbsup:

[marion57]

Originally Posted by Svashtar

Hey Guys,

Being on other forums and getting a lot of newbie questions from folks who haven't bothered to research can be frustrating, so I tried not to do that here. After reading a bunch I think I have most of the info I need, but just a couple of questions.

(I can see how you guys get addicted to these! My friends from Bladeforums turned me onto these so I finally got my M44 the other day.)

I guess I should have researched _first_ for a post war M44, but didn't know about that, so just picked the best of the 4 I had to choose from at Big 5 for $89. There were two marked Good and were pretty trashed, while 2 were marked Very Good. I picked the VG one with the brightest bore. It is a Izhevsk M44 round receiver marked 1945. Like I said, I guess a post-war would have been neat, but this one is really clean. The stock is in great condition. No dings or scratches at all. Kit came with a good sling with supple leather, oiler, the ammo pouches and the cleaning tools, but no pouch for the tools.

I plan on cleaning the metal and bore with Hoppes #9 and Kroil. Hot water and citrus cleaner took care of all the cosmo on the accessories.

My plan after talking to my friend Bill who has successfully taken 3 deer with his was to clean up and refinish the stock, but I just had a B-day and my son surprised me with an ATI stock! I had mentioned it to him when we bought the rifle, but had privately decided to first try and refinish the wood stock instead. And there's not a lot of oil on the wood, so should be pretty easy. The synthetic stock is not nearly as "neat" as the original, but feels great and the pad and swivel studs are a plus. Fit was drop in and very good. Ideally I want to shoot it with both setups.

So question #1, I got the bayonet off, but don't see any way to get the barrel rings off without ruining them? The bayo mount is in the way, and I see removing it is not recommended. I'll just have to play with the front sight if windage has been affected by removing the bayonet.

And #2, of course I disassembled the bolt, and now have to get it back together somehow and use the blade tool to check the headspace, is that correct? The firing pin should be screwed out until it touches at the "75" mark? Thanks for any tips on this.

Overall I'm very pleased. I still plan on cleaning, sanding and refinishing the wood stock, and I'd like to be able to put it back to factory, but that might not be an option if I have to bend the rings.

Thanks for any info, and sorry for the long post. I tend to over-communicate.

Norm

You cant get the barrel rings off a M44 unless you remove the front site, but they can stay with the barrel while you refinish the stock
No 2 isnt head space its firing pin
Go find a m38 for the ati stock or a 91x59

dont bend the barrel rings go to this web site berore you start and Read m Read ,READ!!
Mosin Nagant Rifle Exploded Views and Disassembly

buy a m38 or 91x59 for the ati stock will give you a good excuse to buy more

[Mooseman684]

The firing pin should be between 75 (Minimum) and 95 (Maximum)...
the tool should "Rock" on the 75 and clear the 95 !!!
Rich

[Geo M44]

Actually you can't get the rings off without removing the bayonet tangs, usually by cutting them off, so if you are going to sporterize an M44 pulling the rings by spreading them is the easiest way, and like cutting the tangs is generally not reversable. So buy 2, or 3.

[Svashtar]

Thanks everyone for the info. I've written 3 responses thanking you all, but none showed up and I kept getting a message that my posts required approval. Guess it's a newbie deal for the first 24 hours or so.

Shadowwarrior, thank you and you are obviously correct. Guess I was thinking that if I took the bolt completely apart and put it back together that I could affect HS, which is silly of course. Mooseman, thank you as well. I got the firing pin correct, it rocks on the 75 setting and clears at the 95, and got the bolt back together after taking the time to figure it out. Headspace checked out perfectly today at the gunsmith; bolt locks up tightly with no wobble, but won't close on the no-go gauge.

Part of me hated ditching the wood stock instead of spending time fixing it up, especially as everything was all matching #'s, but the ATI stock is just so much more comfortable for me that I'll get over it I guess. I should get another M44 and fix it up and just leave it completely stock. The pair would look nice on the wall. Before and after. With the bayo lug there's no way you can switch back and forth on the stocks. The rings either stay on the barrel this side of the lug, or they have to come off.

I should have just done as Geo M44 suggested and cut the things off but tried to salvage them by pulling them apart. Just couldn't do it, but did manage to scratch the barrel before I gave in and got out the diamond cut off wheel and took care of them. Nothing a little cold blue didn't fix right away and it looks good now.

Thanks to all of you for your valuable input. Just need to save up for some strippers and ammo and I'll be set!

[thebluesbox]

for the bolt assembly look on youtube type in the search mosin bolt and you will get some vids of guys taking down and reassy. the bolts.

[SwedeSteve]

So svash, where's the pics??

[marion57]

Originally Posted by thebluesbox

for the bolt assembly look on youtube type in the search mosin bolt and you will get some vids of guys taking down and reassy. the bolts.

I posted a video on bolts on another thread

[Svashtar]

Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

So svash, where's the pics??

Hey Swede, waiting on a couple of parts, I promise! Headspace is all good, and I did some painting on the stock yesterday and fixed one of the sling swivel studs. Got one or two additional tweaks and I'll be ready to post pics.

This is a fun project and the more I handle this rifle the more impressed I am with the quality. Considering it was cranked out in 1945 in what had to have been lousy conditions it is in excellent shape.

Norm

[Geo M44]

The 1945's are considered to be semi post war production for M44's, as they were not likely used in combat, so yours should be in very good condition. I think by then they were back to putting metal inserts in the sling slots.

I camo-stocked "Natalia" my scout-scoped 1947 M44 this weekend, and she is a born-again beauty. Can't wait to see how she shoots once I get those pesky rings off (need a new cutoff wheel for the Dremel).

I'm thinking about a folding tripod using the bayo tangs as well. I posted this pic on another thread, but can't remember which one.