Milsurp Mushrooming 7.62x54 hunting bullets

[Paper]

Originally Posted by preventec47

and the 2nd bullet
I found in the opposite side shoulder.

MMMMM Bacon..

As far as what you're shootin', you're covering your bases by checking the bore between shots.. If it works, great!! If it doesn't, so what?

I was kicking around (with Kismet here) just taking Milsurp ammo and nocking the FMJ point of with a grinder and seeing how they'd do... Another friend climbed all over this idea, stating that the ammo would frag, or leave the jacket, or cause diarehha or something..

My thoughts are, if you fire it and it's shoots ok, take it to the next step. (Like you did).. Keep it safe and see what works and what doesn't..

Personally, if I were going to pull bullets, I would have pulled bullets and seated a typical pointed soft point bullet in the FMJ place, but you're a big boy and can do as you wish..

Just as I used to say about showering.. My soap, my body, my shower, and I can wash whatever part as long as I want to, it's your rifle and your ammo.. Do as you wish..

[just_a_car]

Since in two full pages no one has posted it, I'll do it:

The Box O' Truth did an episode on this, the reversed bullets are on page 4 if you're impatient: The Box O' Truth #32 - Dum-Dum Bullets and the Box O'Truth - Page 1

I'd say go for it. Check for accuracy out to 100 yards and if you're within a pie plate, go huntin'!

[Mooseman684]

I would bet a dollar to a donut that they will tumble after a certain distance due to the weight forward bullet, but close range, What the heck...I just pull bullets and press in Softpoints that weigh the same as what I pulled...or change the powder and bullets...Never had a Problem and accuracy is great.
Rich

[preventec47]

Originally Posted by rondog

Wouldn't it just be easier to take the cartridge to a bench grinder, grind off the tip of the bullet to expose the lead, then drill a hole in the lead? Presto, hollow point! And you'd still get the accuracy effects of the boattail, right?

=====================================
The problem with drilling a hole in a bullet is its nearly impossible
to get the hole centered perfectly at least it is with me and
a drill press. I have played with the bench grinder however and
removed the tips off FMJ mill surp ammo. When done
I made the tips look like a soft point 30/30 and they looked really
fantastic and I believe they would work much like soft point bullets.
If what I did with reversing the bullets didnt work
those were the bullets I was going to hunt with.

It's not about cost. It is about sport, and creativity and doing
something new and experimental. PLUS, if any of you ever saw
how big the hollow point looks on the backside of the Hungarian
bullet you would grab your throat and say HOLY CRAP !
( hole looks similar to JHP bullets for 357 magnum )

If I can find where I put the mushroomed bullets I'll try to upload
the pics of the bullets with the point sticking backwards.
I guarantee you this that these are the most boat tailed
projectiles in the history of shooting when fired backwards !

I've got some unfired loaded ammo I should take pics of also.

Dont get me wrong, this is serious stuff and I approached it slowly
and cautiously. I am absolutely convinced that with these
very tough steel alloy jackets ( that throw sparks on the grinder)
hug the core lead very well and completely on the rear pointy
end and there is no way the jackets could strip the core.
And I did shoot two dozen inspecting the bore after shot
to make sure just in case I was wrong. ( used cleaning rod)
There are lots of different kinds of milsurp ammo out there
and if anyone attempts what I did, I would first shot remove
a bit of powder and stick your head under the table when
you fire. Then slowly add powder back to the full original
amount and shoot several to be sure nothing wierd is
happening like I did.

Originally Posted by just_a_car

Since in two full pages no one has posted it, I'll do it:

The Box O' Truth did an episode on this, the reversed bullets are on page 4 if you're impatient: The Box O' Truth #32 - Dum-Dum Bullets and the Box O'Truth - Page 1

I'd say go for it. Check for accuracy out to 100 yards and if
you're within a pie plate, go huntin'!

=========

well SUNO FAB ITCH ! Somebody else beat me to it!
Great photos and article. I wish I read it first as I wouldnt have
shot so many at the range in testing. oh well it was good practice
anyway. The photos look
very much like my bullet except that since mine was boattailed
it looks a lot better when inserted into the case. I didnt want to
mention as a lot of meat was preground into sausage but my
reversed bullets caused a heck of a lot of damage. Perfect way
to expend all the energy into doing its job instead of passing
right through leaving a small hole.

[preventec47]

Here are photos of my bullets. The bullets on the left are
the regular 154 gr regular and tips ground. The bullets
on the right are the 184gr heavy ball yellow tip boattail
and the same with the bullet reversed with point in
the case.

[Geo M44]

Better your rifle than mine. I pull MilSurp bullets as a cheap source of decent bullets, to reuse with brass and nc primers. And I have reused powder successfully as well. But messing with the ballistics?... I dunno.

[marion57]

already said what I think and the safety aspect of someone doing this thinking its ok

[jimkim]

Oh boy, am I going to regret this. With the bullet turned around backwards it more closely follows the shape of the teardrop. This is the most aerodynamic shape I know of. It will also be more stable. If you care to google aerodynamic shapes you will find explainations on the theories of fluid dynamics. I will go ahead and answer the next two questions. The bullet feeds better if it is pointed and it is really aerodynamic. The bullet is flat on the back to allow for more case capacity. It also will probably form a better gas seal with it shaped like that.

[Mooseman684]

Originally Posted by jimkim

Oh boy, am I going to regret this. With the bullet turned around backwards it more closely follows the shape of the teardrop. This is the most aerodynamic shape I know of. It will also be more stable. If you care to google aerodynamic shapes you will find explainations on the theories of fluid dynamics. I will go ahead and answer the next two questions. The bullet feeds better if it is pointed and it is really aerodynamic. The bullet is flat on the back to allow for more case capacity. It also will probably form a better gas seal with it shaped like that.

JimKim...I hate to bust your bubble, But Thousands of Engineers in Bullet design would have come up with a commercial bullet like that if it was the best design...It IS NOT. Bullets are designed for Speed, accuracy and various degrees of Performance on IMPACT...A teardrop shape puts drag forward , which changes the Center of Gravity exponetially...
Rich

When a bullet flies through the air, two types of forces act on the bullet to determine its path (trajectory) through the air. The first is gravitational force; the other is aerodynamics. Several kinds of aerodynamic forces act on a bullet: drag, lift, side forces, Magnus force, spin damping force, pitch damping force, and Magnus cross force. The most important of these aerodynamic forces is drag. All the others are very small in comparison when the bullet is spin-stabilized. To a very good approximation, the drag force and the gravitational force together determine the trajectory of any spin-stabilized bullet. The other small aerodynamic forces cause only small variations from the trajectory that is determined by drag and gravity acting alone on the bullet. For trajectory computation purposes, this allows the bullet to be modeled as a point mass with a ballistic coefficient. In other words, the bullet motion is modeled as a three degrees of freedom (3 DOF) physics problem, that is, as a point mass with three translational degrees of freedom. The bullet trajectory calculated with this approach is almost exactly correct. If we wished to treat the small variations caused by the other aerodynamic forces, it would be necessary to model the bullet as a spinning body with six degrees of freedom (6 DOF), three translational and three rotational degrees of freedom. This approach, while more exact, is very complex in both a physics and a mathematical sense, and it is neither practical nor necessary to use this approach for sporting purposes.
Aerodynamic drag always acts opposite to the bullet’s direction of travel through the air. That is, drag always tends to slow the bullet down. As the direction of bullet travel changes during the trajectory, so does the direction of the drag force. Drag is a very complex function of bullet velocity relative to the air, and it depends critically on the density of the air and on the speed of sound in the air through which the bullet is moving. Air density, in turn, depends on true barometric pressure, temperature of the air, and relative humidity at the location of the bullet as it flies. These atmospheric parameters depend critically on the altitude of the bullet above sea level. The speed of sound in the air depends primarily on temperature of the air, and so it also depends on altitude at the bullet location.

In addition to gravity and drag, there are other strong effects on the path of a flying bullet. Wind, which is any motion of the air mass through which the bullet is flying, is one such effect. A headwind or tailwind will cause the bullet to experience more or less drag, respectively, than it would if it traveled in still air. A crosswind causes the bullet to turn in the direction that the crosswind is blowing. A vertical wind causes the bullet to turn upward or downward, following the vertical wind that blows upward or downward, respectively. And so, the path of the bullet (trajectory) is changed by winds compared to the path it would have in still air.

[Geo M44]

I knew that... Like I said... don't mess with the bullet.

[preventec47]

What in the hell are you guys talking about ? !
Heck yea, spitzer bullets have less drag and thusly greater long range velocities.
Supersonic shapes are not tear drop, they are needle point.

I just turned the bullet around to shoot a pig. So happened it worked
fantastic at the short range because I wanted explosive expansion instead
of penetration without deformation as is usually the case with steel alloy
FMJ bullets. BUT turned around backwards it would not be a a good
long range shooter as the velocity would be lost This is grade school logic.

[jimkim]

Rich why didnt you just go to the barnes site and copy this.

Question: Why aren’t bullets pointed on both ends?-Thanks, Michael Lawyer.
Answer: Hi Michael,
I’ve tried shooting bullets loaded backwards (base-first), and they actually do okay. However, they typically don’t deliver accuracy as good as when they’re flying point-first. Spin-stabilized projectiles (bullets) are more stable-and therefore more accurate-when most of the weight is placed toward the rear of the bullet.

It would have been a hell of a lot shorter. It also would have made more sense.

[marion57]

This thread is getting weird and needs to be put to rest !!
Saftey First

[jimkim]

I was thinking of aerodynamic drag and forgot about ballistics. Until after the post. I did find some interesting articles on seating bullets backwards in subsonic rifle loads though.

[marion57]

Originally Posted by jimkim

I was thinking of aerodynamic drag and forgot about ballistics. Until after the post. I did find some interesting articles on seating bullets backwards in subsonic rifle loads though.

Fifty lashes with a wet noodle !!!

[jimkim]

sometimes Im an Idiot.....mercy

[marion57]

Originally Posted by jimkim

sometimes Im an Idiot.....mercy

You will fit right in here for sure LOL
Ever stop to think and forget to restart??

Every day LOL

[jimkim]

Sometimes my memory is worse than Hillary Clintons....I cant recall...41 Is too young to be senile. God help me when I get older.

[Mooseman684]

Originally Posted by jimkim

Rich why didnt you just go to the barnes site and copy this.

Question: Why aren’t bullets pointed on both ends?-Thanks, Michael Lawyer.
Answer: Hi Michael,
I’ve tried shooting bullets loaded backwards (base-first), and they actually do okay. However, they typically don’t deliver accuracy as good as when they’re flying point-first. Spin-stabilized projectiles (bullets) are more stable-and therefore more accurate-when most of the weight is placed toward the rear of the bullet.

It would have been a hell of a lot shorter. It also would have made more sense.

I thought you preferred The Really Technical aspects of Bullet Physics 101, and what really happens when you fire one !!!
LOL
Rich

[SwedeSteve]

The only question I have is, when you shot that pig, did he look in the opposite direction of you thinking it came from over there? And to whoever said you put the bullet in backwards, did you stop to consider that the bullet is correct and the brass is backwards?