Bulgarian National Arsenal 7.62x54 Ammunition

[FS00008]

I recieved a reply to an e-mail I sent to the EU Representative of Arsenal2000 (AKA the Bulgarian National Arsenal).

"

Date: 04/06/2008

MD/SH

Dear Erik,


In reply to your e-mal dated June 2nd, 2008 we would like to inform you the following:

1. We produce 7,62x54 R mm ammunition and we have plans to extend sales of these to the USA. We are currently negotiating with several companies. There should be some deliveries in the last quarter of 2008 due to all the paperwork.

Please visit the our web-site : www.arsenal2000-bg.com to get more information about the production list of Arsenal JSCo.














Sincerely yours,


Hr.Ibouchev
Executive Director
Arsenal 2000 JSCo.,"




I believe they produce both Boxer and Berdan primed Brass Cased ammo in a variety of sizes. From looking at their prices in Europe, they're quite similar to Wolff in terms of price, but they have a MUCH better reputation.



Well it's good to hear that there will be more options :-) Especially with the pending purchase of an M44 (Waiting for my California License).

[SwedeSteve]

Another source for ammo is always a good thing !!

[R5CYA]

i'll be looking forward to it. always been happy with the stuff they made 54 years ago. be nice to see if they can still make it as good!

[FS00008]

My sentiments exactly :-)

[just_a_car]

Just checked their site; they have two Berdan-primed rounds in the Civilian section, one HP, one SP.

Both are 180 grain (11.6 gram) running 2460 fps (750 m/s).

Bimetal case and jacket.

Looks like both would be a decent hunting round.

[gandog56]

HOLY CRAP! It looks like they might sell Berdan primers, too. I've been looking for a source of them for a LONG time.

[FS00008]

My question was actually about surplus style "cheap" practice ammo rather than hunting ammo, but this makes me want to also get a 91/30 or 91/59 along with the M44 and mount a real scope on it. I think I'm going to read the Hunting Rifle thread on this forum now :-).

Although... I could just stick with my uncle's handloads and my R700... can't go wrong with that.

JAC, have you taken any deer with a Mosin?

[Geo M44]

Originally Posted by gandog56

HOLY CRAP! It looks like they might sell Berdan primers, too. I've been looking for a source of them for a LONG time.

LMAO. Rare indeed. Break out the hydro punch, and get ready to reload.

[FS00008]

Geo, forgive my ignorance.

What is a "hydro punch"? I was under the impression that you needed new brass with Berdan primed cases because it was impossible to get the primers out.

Am I completely wrong here?

[gandog56]

Two ways that I know to remove Berdan primers. One is a tool made by RCBS. It is expensive and still not the greatest working tool ever made. The other uses hydraulic pressure. It is basically a tube that holds the shell with a hole in the bottom. You fill the case with water, insert a solid pin about diameter of the bullet in the neck, and then whack the pin with a hammer. The water pressure created blows the old primer right out. (Theoretically) It's downside is it's messy with water usually spraying everywhere, especially if the pin is not large enough, and it might take several whacks. But with almost all of the milsurp brass out there being Berdan primed.............it could be feasible to reload those cases. Except for the fact it is next to impossible to find Berdan primers sold in the US.

[FS00008]

There really ought to be a better way to do that. Is there any real advantage to using Berdan primers versus Boxer primers?

[sh4d0ww4rri0r]

The advantage is that most milsurp ammo is berdan primed. Milsurp ammo = cheap ammo = cheap reloading expense. I think. Most commercial ammo which goes for about a dollar a round is great for reloading because of their boxer primers. But taking their cost into account it is definitely a costly option.

But then again is it really cheaper to buy milsurp ammo and shoot it and reload it than to just buy normal empty boxer primed brass?

[Geo M44]

Originally Posted by FS00008

There really ought to be a better way to do that. Is there any real advantage to using Berdan primers versus Boxer primers?

Nope. Boxer primed rounds work as well as Berdan. The irony is that Berdan was American and Boxer was English (if memory servs).

I think that Gandog described the hydro-punch pretty well. With the exception of Bulgarian HB most MilSurp Berdan primed ammo is steel cased and not reloadable... period. Reloading dies can't handle steel. And finally, as Gandog pointed out, Berdan primers are difficult to find.

Many have tried, and many realize the futility of trying to reload Berdan primed ammo.

[FS00008]

So why the hell did they use Berdan Primers if they're no better than Boxers?

Oh well, I'm getting my M44 in a month or so if Big 5 can keep from selling the one I want (Beautiful stock, clean non-counterbored, and I have inspected it about 500 times and the bore is almost SHINY =]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) The strange thing is that they're only asking $99 and this one is so outstanding for how much better condition it is in versus the rest of their M44s and 91/30s.

I don't get it. Anyways, I can't wait and am a bit disappointed but I can't find any more cases of the 1224 round Bulgarian... Anyone know where they might be?

[Full MeTal Jack]

yes sir, cool site.

[AnaxImperator]

Originally Posted by FS00008

So why the hell did they use Berdan Primers if they're no better than Boxers?

Because Berdan primers are more stable during long-term storage.... they keep better, perfect for military ammo stockpiles that sit for 30-50 years between wars... often in cold, damp warehouses/bunkers. So if you're not planning on saving your reloads for a few score decades, Boxer primers work just the same as Berdans.... though I've heard that Boxer primers are a bit more reactive & liable to fire if the firing-pin makes a light-strike.

[FS00008]

OH!!!

Thank you very much for explaining that to me... I was never able to figure it out.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by AnaxImperator

Because Berdan primers are more stable during long-term storage.... they keep better, perfect for military ammo stockpiles that sit for 30-50 years between wars... often in cold, damp warehouses/bunkers. So if you're not planning on saving your reloads for a few score decades, Boxer primers work just the same as Berdans.... though I've heard that Boxer primers are a bit more reactive & liable to fire if the firing-pin makes a light-strike.

Actually, AI, what you just described is corossive ammo, made with primers containing potassium chlorate (or anything similar) as an oxidizer. When it's fired the potassium chlorate turns into potassium chloride, the stuff commonly seen as a salt substitute for people on low-salt diets. Since it's just another kind of salt, chemically speaking, the residue it leaves in the barrel absorbs water from the air like table salt would, resulting in rust.

Both Berdan and Boxer primers can be corrosive or non-corrosive. Most non-American military ammo is Berdan primed, but the old Boxer-primed American military stuff was also corrosive. The differences between the two are purely physical, rather than having anything to do with the contents.

In a Boxer-primed round, the anvil that the firing pin crushes the explosive against is part of the primer itself. The primer is easily punched out and replaced, since it fits into an open hole. In Berdan-primed ammo the anvil is part of the casing, instead of being part of the primer, and has holes in it to let the primer ignite the powder. The primer butts up against it. So you can't just physically punch a Berdan primer out of its pocket without destroying the anvil; that's why you pop it out with water instead.

I've tried it, and managed to do a few just using a wooden dowel and a hammer for the hydraulic piston. But I'm not a reloader (yet); I was just messing around. I think anyone with a little machine-shop savvy could build a tabletop punch setup that would hold the casing steady, and punch the piston straight into it without too much mess, especially if a splash shield came down around everything along with the piston.

Who will be first on here to build and market such a device? I'm not really set up with anything but woodworking tools, or it might be me...