Questions for the Pro's

E5B · 04-27-2007, 04:02 PM

I'm new to muzzleloading and 2 years ago I purchased a CVA Kodiak magnum 45 cal topped with a Leupold VX-II 2-7x33.

I've read that oil based solvents should not be used in the bore and so far I've kept to that. What about in the off season when it sits (in my safe with de-humidifier) for several months and rust still builts in the bore? I'm having to clean it every month or so and it's filthy, even after a thorough cleaning after each use and a thorough cleaning before being put in the safe for the off season. Is there anything I can use to prevent this?

One more question, this time about accuracy. The two types of bullets I've used is PowerBelt and Shockwave with 100 grains worth of (two) pellets. The best accuracy at 50 yards has been 4 inch groups.....very discouraging. Should I try 150 grains and different bullets? Should I use 209 primers vice the reduced flash muzzleloading primers?

I enjoy muzzeloading more than I thought I would but realize there is tons to learn. Eventually I'd like to get this thing shooting 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards so I can take it deer and bear hunting here in NC.

Dave

allan1898 · 04-27-2007, 04:22 PM

The reason you don't use oil based solvents is that the powder residue has salts ( not NaCl, or table salt, but other corrosive compounds) and they must be removed by dissolving them in water, so water based solvents are used. But after removing the salts, you need to oil the bore. I usually use dilute Windex all surface cleaner with vinegar-the clear stuff. Really cuts the crud. Any detergent with hot water will do the job, and there are some purpose maid products for cleaning black powder. Then I also go in with good ol' Hoppes #9, and finish off with Break Free to oil it up. I'm shooting muskets, cap and ball pistols, and black powder cartridge, and I have never had any problems with any rust forming at all-even use the same process on surpluss ammo. I store in the safe with a heat rod, but this is Houston, and let me tell you it gets really damp around here. Oil lightly, wait a couple of days, and run a couple more patches as well. I can't help much with your ammo question, as I shoot minie bullets (and solid base in the Sharps), never tried any of the hunting bullets on the market, but generally speaking I find that lighter loads usually shoot more to accuracy, but you are going to have to com[promise there since you need power to take game cleanly.

Mooseman684 · 04-27-2007, 07:03 PM

I agree with Allen...clean the bore, oil it for storage, clean the bore with several patches to remove the oil before loading your first time !
If you are shooting 100 grains worth, you are way over what is needed for the .45. TRY...70 grains of Black powder or The equivelent Mass (NOT WEIGHT) of Pyrodex. I dont use Pellets myself but 70 gr. gives me very accurate shots with Minie Balls or Round balls .
Rich

E5B · 04-28-2007, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I have some 777 loose powder and I'll try it out.

PelletHead · 05-18-2007, 12:12 PM

E5B,
This is what I do after the hunting season is over. I clean the barrel with very hot soapy water and dry. While the barrel is still hot I rub it down with bore butter or maxi lube. These products have a rust inhibitor in them. I lube up a patch (with alot of lube) and run it up and down the barrel 8 or 10 times and leave the ramrod with jag and lubed patch in the barrel and put the gun away. Every month I just run the patch up and down the barrel and check the patch for rust. I have never found any rust in or on my gun by using this method and I've had this same gun for 16 years now. When hunting time comes around I clean with hot soapy water again. Do not oil the gun at this time. Oil in the barrel will mess up the powder and cause poor accuracy.
Mooseman is right about the powder and bullet combos. I use loose powder myownself. I shoot a traditional caplock TC Renagade. It has a 26" barrel with a 1 in 48 twist. When I shoot patched round balls I use 60 grains of powder for best accuracy. 80 grains for 275 maxi hunter, 90 grain for 370 maxi hunter. You'll find that differant powders and bullets will measure up differant for best accuracy. Thats fun part of black powder shooting. Dialing the gun in means you get to shoot alot. I hope this helps and make smoke.

samuel · 05-18-2007, 02:24 PM

I cant add anything except I leave the plug out,nipple out,anything I can do to ventilate the barrel and let it breath while in storage. samuel.

rdnckhnter · 05-27-2007, 11:50 PM

i have a cva wolf its a step down from the kodiak taht u have and right outa the box i shoot 2 inches at 100 yards so i cant believe ur having problems stick with it tho and keep trying new things

racdrof · 05-28-2007, 07:45 AM

Yep, hot water and soap. Dry it and oil it up good. I shoot a custom built full stock .54 cal. .542 round ball, .010 patch, loads hard and comes out the same way. Patterns 4" at 100 yds. with 80 gr. of powder. Open buck horn sights. Black powder only.

E5B · 06-24-2007, 09:28 PM

I contacted CVA and told them my problem with accuracy and they told me to mail it in. Next week later I get a brand new ML on my door step.

Now I get to start from scratch finding a new load.

Anyone use the new Winchester 777 209 primers? Supposedly the cat's meow.

04-27-2007, 04:02 PM	#1
E5B Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC (Misplaced Texan) Posts: 22	Questions for the Pro's I'm new to muzzleloading and 2 years ago I purchased a CVA Kodiak magnum 45 cal topped with a Leupold VX-II 2-7x33. I've read that oil based solvents should not be used in the bore and so far I've kept to that. What about in the off season when it sits (in my safe with de-humidifier) for several months and rust still builts in the bore? I'm having to clean it every month or so and it's filthy, even after a thorough cleaning after each use and a thorough cleaning before being put in the safe for the off season. Is there anything I can use to prevent this? One more question, this time about accuracy. The two types of bullets I've used is PowerBelt and Shockwave with 100 grains worth of (two) pellets. The best accuracy at 50 yards has been 4 inch groups.....very discouraging. Should I try 150 grains and different bullets? Should I use 209 primers vice the reduced flash muzzleloading primers? I enjoy muzzeloading more than I thought I would but realize there is tons to learn. Eventually I'd like to get this thing shooting 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards so I can take it deer and bear hunting here in NC. Dave

04-27-2007, 07:03 PM	#3
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 8,919	I agree with Allen...clean the bore, oil it for storage, clean the bore with several patches to remove the oil before loading your first time ! If you are shooting 100 grains worth, you are way over what is needed for the .45. TRY...70 grains of Black powder or The equivelent Mass (NOT WEIGHT) of Pyrodex. I dont use Pellets myself but 70 gr. gives me very accurate shots with Minie Balls or Round balls . Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

05-27-2007, 11:50 PM	#7
rdnckhnter Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: pennsylvania and new jersey right on the bored Posts: 182	i have a cva wolf its a step down from the kodiak taht u have and right outa the box i shoot 2 inches at 100 yards so i cant believe ur having problems stick with it tho and keep trying new things __________________ My long hair dont cover my redneck and u know what im ok with that

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04-27-2007, 04:22 PM	#2
allan1898 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 108	The reason you don't use oil based solvents is that the powder residue has salts ( not NaCl, or table salt, but other corrosive compounds) and they must be removed by dissolving them in water, so water based solvents are used. But after removing the salts, you need to oil the bore. I usually use dilute Windex all surface cleaner with vinegar-the clear stuff. Really cuts the crud. Any detergent with hot water will do the job, and there are some purpose maid products for cleaning black powder. Then I also go in with good ol' Hoppes #9, and finish off with Break Free to oil it up. I'm shooting muskets, cap and ball pistols, and black powder cartridge, and I have never had any problems with any rust forming at all-even use the same process on surpluss ammo. I store in the safe with a heat rod, but this is Houston, and let me tell you it gets really damp around here. Oil lightly, wait a couple of days, and run a couple more patches as well. I can't help much with your ammo question, as I shoot minie bullets (and solid base in the Sharps), never tried any of the hunting bullets on the market, but generally speaking I find that lighter loads usually shoot more to accuracy, but you are going to have to com[promise there since you need power to take game cleanly.

04-28-2007, 11:12 AM	#4
E5B Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC (Misplaced Texan) Posts: 22	Thanks for the replies. I have some 777 loose powder and I'll try it out.

05-18-2007, 12:12 PM	#5
PelletHead Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 34	E5B, This is what I do after the hunting season is over. I clean the barrel with very hot soapy water and dry. While the barrel is still hot I rub it down with bore butter or maxi lube. These products have a rust inhibitor in them. I lube up a patch (with alot of lube) and run it up and down the barrel 8 or 10 times and leave the ramrod with jag and lubed patch in the barrel and put the gun away. Every month I just run the patch up and down the barrel and check the patch for rust. I have never found any rust in or on my gun by using this method and I've had this same gun for 16 years now. When hunting time comes around I clean with hot soapy water again. Do not oil the gun at this time. Oil in the barrel will mess up the powder and cause poor accuracy. Mooseman is right about the powder and bullet combos. I use loose powder myownself. I shoot a traditional caplock TC Renagade. It has a 26" barrel with a 1 in 48 twist. When I shoot patched round balls I use 60 grains of powder for best accuracy. 80 grains for 275 maxi hunter, 90 grain for 370 maxi hunter. You'll find that differant powders and bullets will measure up differant for best accuracy. Thats fun part of black powder shooting. Dialing the gun in means you get to shoot alot. I hope this helps and make smoke.

05-18-2007, 02:24 PM	#6
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,376	I cant add anything except I leave the plug out,nipple out,anything I can do to ventilate the barrel and let it breath while in storage. samuel.

05-28-2007, 07:45 AM	#8
racdrof Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 135	Yep, hot water and soap. Dry it and oil it up good. I shoot a custom built full stock .54 cal. .542 round ball, .010 patch, loads hard and comes out the same way. Patterns 4" at 100 yds. with 80 gr. of powder. Open buck horn sights. Black powder only.

06-24-2007, 09:28 PM	#9
E5B Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC (Misplaced Texan) Posts: 22	I contacted CVA and told them my problem with accuracy and they told me to mail it in. Next week later I get a brand new ML on my door step. Now I get to start from scratch finding a new load. Anyone use the new Winchester 777 209 primers? Supposedly the cat's meow.