Anyone here doing cap and ball revolvers?

Big Dog · 08-01-2008, 10:22 AM

The revolvers are stronger than many realize. All my brass-framed revolvers get a charge of 30 grains Triple Seven or Pyrodex, under a .451 ball. A lubed "Wonder Wad" between powder and wad - NO cross-fire!
Accuracy is good, recoil moderate. My oldest 1851 Navy is old - bought it in 1976 from a K-Mart! It's still tight.
My first powder flask was pre-set to 27 grains - it always felt 'light'. 30 grains is just right.

YMMV, depending on make & model.

rebel727 · 08-01-2008, 11:21 AM

Big Dog you do realize 777 is hotter than bp and should be cut 15%. With 30 grs. of 777 you're loading the equivalent of around 35 grs. of bp. That's a bit much for a steady diet in a brass frame. If you've shot it much with those loads take your cylinder out and check the frame where the back of the cylinder rides and see if it's getting imprints of the ratchet teeth in the brass.

Rex in OTZ · 08-01-2008, 04:40 PM

Im not gonna get frisky and go tellin folks that they should be overloading ther guns those manufactures do that for a reason , Ive personnaly seen a blown replica Walker because of that very same type of thinking "loaded with 405gr .45-70 slugs", Yes Ive crossed the line of prudence and loaded my steel frame EMF 1860 with doubel loades (46gr)and shot it till the base pin started pulling loose in the frame (took 7 cylinder fulls), Ive been there and done that in spades and what I'm saying to the ones starting out that are reading this thread is that useing what is recomended is plenty good for what these cap & ball revolvers were developed to do, if you want to go fast & far and feel the power then get equipment that does it. its careless and irresponsable to go telling new shooters to skip over what is sensable just to impress them......... I'd feel really bad if someone had gotten hurt because of a action "I" condoned .

rebel727 · 08-01-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex in OTZ

Im not gonna get frisky and go tellin folks that they should be overloading ther guns those manufactures do that for a reason , Ive personnaly seen a blown replica Walker because of that very same type of thinking "loaded with 405gr .45-70 slugs"

Well there ya go. They weren't designed for 405 gr. bullets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex in OTZ

Yes Ive crossed the line of prudence and loaded my steel frame EMF 1860 with doubel loades (46gr)and shot it till the base pin started pulling loose in the frame (took 7 cylinder fulls),

How do you get 46 grs. of bp in an 1860 Colt chamber?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex in OTZ

Ive been there and done that in spades and what I'm saying to the ones starting out that are reading this thread is that useing what is recomended is plenty good for what these cap & ball revolvers were developed to do, if you want to go fast & far and feel the power then get equipment that does it. its careless and irresponsable to go telling new shooters to skip over what is sensable just to impress them......... I'd feel really bad if someone had gotten hurt because of a action "I" condoned .

30-35 grs. is not being irresponsible in a steel framed revolver. I'm not trying to impress anybody. I'm just stating the facts. I've fired hundreds of rounds loaded at 30-35 grs. with a round ball out of a Pietta 1860. No looseness and the cylinder gap is still .004 with the wedge a flush fit on the side opposite the screw.

Rex in OTZ · 08-01-2008, 08:12 PM

What ever Let-um.

rebel727 · 08-01-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex in OTZ

What ever Let-um.

I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ but I've been shooting these things for 39 years. I kinda think I know what I'm talking about.

Big Dog · 08-02-2008, 06:04 AM

In my "young&stupid" days, I did indeed overload the earliest revolver - I knew little about them, and neither did the clerk who sold me the gun, and the over-sized .457 flat-based round-nose BULLETs I used in it. Whoa! Thinking about that now, it's a wonder I didn't grenade it. I was overcharging it too. The kick was massive, it would recock by the flashback thru the flash hole, and it would put that slug thru both sides of an truck bed I found in the woods. WHOOWEE!
Then the cylinder lock broke.....

I fitted the new parts, read up on the subject, and got my act together.
32 years later, the little .44 1851 Navy is till tight and shoots well.
I like the .451 balls, and have never had a problem with flashover, though I only recently began using Wonder Wads or grease over the balls.
I don't shoot them often, and I do watch for signs of problems.

rebel727 · 08-02-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dog

In my "young&stupid" days, I did indeed overload the earliest revolver - I knew little about them, and neither did the clerk who sold me the gun

That was me. I bought my first one when I was 12 and the guy that sold it to me didn't know much more than I did which was squat. I didn't know about powder measures or greasing the balls. I dumped powder in till it looked right and most of the time had to carve the front of the balls off to get the cylinder to turn. Then with no lube I had chain fires galore, sometimes all six going off at once. Didn't deter me tho. I stuck with it and gradually learned on my own what to do. It took me a while to invent the powder measure and figure out if I put a drop of oil on the balls it wouldn't chain fire anymore. I had hundreds of chain fires with that old gun but they didn't scare me, they were more of an annoyance than anything else. BTW that old Remy is still one of my best shooters.

seattle fog · 08-12-2008, 06:39 PM

Friend of mine and I were enjoying a day at the BP range, and a man and his son were watching. Kid was nine or ten, I guess. Reloaded, and saw the kid watching every move very carefully...asked him if he wanted to try it - if it was OK with his dad. Dad said OK, so I explained how the Remington repro worked, and off he went. Aimed carefully, squeezed the trigger. BOOM! BIG smoke...and the biggest grin you will ever see.
Another convert.

Half Moon Tune · 08-12-2008, 09:30 PM

The first one I fired was the Navy arms "Reb" model my dad bought back in the late 60's. It was similar to the one Costner used in "Dances With Wolves." Since then I've owned Navy replicas, 1860 Army or two, 1858 Remington, and about 7 years ago my wife bought me an honest to God REAL Navy Colt, circa 1861. Somebody had tried to clean it up with a file so it had no collector's value. I spent many hours stoning out the angry file marks and replaced the springs. It is a really good shooter and very accurate. It has become my all time favorite handgun. I feel like I am truly blessed. Never in a million years did I ever think I would have an original. I thought that maybe, if lucky, I would someday buy a second generation Colt, but never thought of an original.

rebel727 · 08-12-2008, 09:47 PM

Lucky you. I found an original 58 Remington in a barn once. It had a like new action but was pretty rough on the outside. It even had the inspectors cartouche in the grips but I got what was a real good offer for it at the time and sold it. I wish I still had it now.

Half Moon Tune · 08-13-2008, 09:44 PM

I hear ya Reb. A few years back I ran across a original 1858 Remington in a gunshop for $300. We were on vacation and I had the money but didn't want to cut us short so I passed it up. Foolish me. I could have given the guy $150 or so and mailed him the balance in a couple of weeks and then he could have sent me the gun. Stupid me, I didn't even think about it until weeks later when it was too late. I sure wish I had that Remington!

rebel727 · 08-14-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half Moon Tune

I hear ya Reb. A few years back I ran across a original 1858 Remington in a gunshop for $300. We were on vacation and I had the money but didn't want to cut us short so I passed it up. Foolish me. I could have given the guy $150 or so and mailed him the balance in a couple of weeks and then he could have sent me the gun. Stupid me, I didn't even think about it until weeks later when it was too late. I sure wish I had that Remington!

Yeah, I've done that before. Several times. I always find stuff on the first few days of vacation but towards the end when I know how much I can spend I find nothing.

08-01-2008, 10:22 AM	#21
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,421	The revolvers are stronger than many realize. All my brass-framed revolvers get a charge of 30 grains Triple Seven or Pyrodex, under a .451 ball. A lubed "Wonder Wad" between powder and wad - NO cross-fire! Accuracy is good, recoil moderate. My oldest 1851 Navy is old - bought it in 1976 from a K-Mart! It's still tight. My first powder flask was pre-set to 27 grains - it always felt 'light'. 30 grains is just right. YMMV, depending on make & model. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

08-01-2008, 11:21 AM	#22
rebel727 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Heidelberg, Mississippi Posts: 1,642	Big Dog you do realize 777 is hotter than bp and should be cut 15%. With 30 grs. of 777 you're loading the equivalent of around 35 grs. of bp. That's a bit much for a steady diet in a brass frame. If you've shot it much with those loads take your cylinder out and check the frame where the back of the cylinder rides and see if it's getting imprints of the ratchet teeth in the brass. __________________ North-1 South-0 HALFTIME!

08-02-2008, 06:04 AM	#27
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,421	In my "young&stupid" days, I did indeed overload the earliest revolver - I knew little about them, and neither did the clerk who sold me the gun, and the over-sized .457 flat-based round-nose BULLETs I used in it. Whoa! Thinking about that now, it's a wonder I didn't grenade it. I was overcharging it too. The kick was massive, it would recock by the flashback thru the flash hole, and it would put that slug thru both sides of an truck bed I found in the woods. WHOOWEE! Then the cylinder lock broke..... I fitted the new parts, read up on the subject, and got my act together. 32 years later, the little .44 1851 Navy is till tight and shoots well. I like the .451 balls, and have never had a problem with flashover, though I only recently began using Wonder Wads or grease over the balls. I don't shoot them often, and I do watch for signs of problems. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

08-12-2008, 09:47 PM	#31
rebel727 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Heidelberg, Mississippi Posts: 1,642	Lucky you. I found an original 58 Remington in a barn once. It had a like new action but was pretty rough on the outside. It even had the inspectors cartouche in the grips but I got what was a real good offer for it at the time and sold it. I wish I still had it now. __________________ North-1 South-0 HALFTIME!

08-01-2008, 04:40 PM	#23
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 573	Im not gonna get frisky and go tellin folks that they should be overloading ther guns those manufactures do that for a reason , Ive personnaly seen a blown replica Walker because of that very same type of thinking "loaded with 405gr .45-70 slugs", Yes Ive crossed the line of prudence and loaded my steel frame EMF 1860 with doubel loades (46gr)and shot it till the base pin started pulling loose in the frame (took 7 cylinder fulls), Ive been there and done that in spades and what I'm saying to the ones starting out that are reading this thread is that useing what is recomended is plenty good for what these cap & ball revolvers were developed to do, if you want to go fast & far and feel the power then get equipment that does it. its careless and irresponsable to go telling new shooters to skip over what is sensable just to impress them......... I'd feel really bad if someone had gotten hurt because of a action "I" condoned .

08-01-2008, 08:12 PM	#25
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 573	What ever Let-um.

08-12-2008, 06:39 PM	#29
seattle fog Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 24 Blog Entries: 1	Friend of mine and I were enjoying a day at the BP range, and a man and his son were watching. Kid was nine or ten, I guess. Reloaded, and saw the kid watching every move very carefully...asked him if he wanted to try it - if it was OK with his dad. Dad said OK, so I explained how the Remington repro worked, and off he went. Aimed carefully, squeezed the trigger. BOOM! BIG smoke...and the biggest grin you will ever see. Another convert.

08-12-2008, 09:30 PM	#30
Half Moon Tune Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 19	The first one I fired was the Navy arms "Reb" model my dad bought back in the late 60's. It was similar to the one Costner used in "Dances With Wolves." Since then I've owned Navy replicas, 1860 Army or two, 1858 Remington, and about 7 years ago my wife bought me an honest to God REAL Navy Colt, circa 1861. Somebody had tried to clean it up with a file so it had no collector's value. I spent many hours stoning out the angry file marks and replaced the springs. It is a really good shooter and very accurate. It has become my all time favorite handgun. I feel like I am truly blessed. Never in a million years did I ever think I would have an original. I thought that maybe, if lucky, I would someday buy a second generation Colt, but never thought of an original.

08-13-2008, 09:44 PM	#32
Half Moon Tune Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 19	I hear ya Reb. A few years back I ran across a original 1858 Remington in a gunshop for $300. We were on vacation and I had the money but didn't want to cut us short so I passed it up. Foolish me. I could have given the guy $150 or so and mailed him the balance in a couple of weeks and then he could have sent me the gun. Stupid me, I didn't even think about it until weeks later when it was too late. I sure wish I had that Remington!