new to black powder, i need some help

skittlesV1 · 06-10-2008, 11:34 PM

i plan on buying this gun 39417 - .44 Caliber 1851 Colt Navy Black Powder Revolver, Walnut Grips, Brass - Manufactured by: Traditions and this starter kit thing 16894 - .44 Caliber Revolver Sportsman's Kit - Manufactured by: Traditions and i need to know a few things, what size caps does this gun use, what kind of powder do i need? where online can i buy the caps and powder, what size balls does this shoot because ive heard .44s use balls from .451 to .457 in diameter but what kind should i get, preferably from that site, do i need wadding and what kind and is there anything else i should buy when i buy this gun? any links alone with sugestions would be greatly appreceated, thanks

Mooseman684 · 06-10-2008, 11:57 PM

Welcome to G&G...
For Caps, use #10 percussion caps for a pistol.
You need FFFg Black powder or Pyrodex . Use The EQUIVALENT VOLUME of Pyrodex to The Weight of Black Powder...Wadding is not needed for a pistol, you load the powder, press in the ball, and seal the cylinder with Grease...
I don't know if you can buy powder and caps online , but Walmarts, Bass pro shops, etc. carry the stuff.
As far as the ball Diameter, depends on what the Pistol reccomends, normally around .452...
Rich

andrew cochran · 06-13-2008, 09:43 AM

Yeah go to cabelas and you will find powder and caps and bullets. www.cabelas.com

nathangdad · 06-13-2008, 05:22 PM

make certain you cover the bullets in the cylinder with some type
flash retardant as you can get a double ignition. Safety first.

I witnessed this with a friend who fired a new copy of the 1858 Remington.
No one got hurt but it was truly frightening trying to figure out what happened.

Grey Wolf · 07-02-2008, 01:12 PM

I don't understand Traditions. There was no such thing as a .44 caliber 1851 Navy Colt. All four versions of the 1851 models were .36 caliber. I can't find any information on why .36 is a "Navy" caliber and .44 is an "Army" caliber. I have read that some think it's because Colt's first successful revolvers, the Patersons, were the 180 .36 caliber pistols that were bought by the Texas Navy. Colt made a limited number of 1861 "Navy" models in .36 caliber.

If it's not too late, I don't recommend brass framed revolvers. Brass is too soft and tolerances tend to grow if the pistols are shot a lot. The Confederacy had pistols made with brass frames because steel was so scarce. Brass just happens to be easier to machine and file than steel.

Colt's revolvers are beautiful, but they also tend to loosen up from a lot of shooting. The barrel wedge must be kept tight or the cylinder can move out of alignment with the barrel and cause poor accuracy. I like Remingtons with the solid frames, but I think the Rogers & Spencers are the most beautiful percussion revolvers ever made. I had to sell a 13 piece collection of Civil War revolvers to pay for three spinal surgeries, but I couldn't bear to part with a Rogers & Spencer. The replicas are seldom seen because only one company makes them. The rest of the companies are cranking out Colts and Remingtons.

.451 balls are the most common for .44 revolvers. My Ruger Old Army takes .457s as it is actually a .45 caliber. It's one of the early ones that had brass trigger guards and backstraps.

I read where a lot of pistol shooters shoot heavy loads. I found that 25 -30 grains of fffg makes a fine load for .44 revolvers. The size of Colt Walker cylinders made them capable of holding 50 plus grains of powder using a round ball. With the metallurgy of the day and the thin cylinder walls between the bores there was an inordinately high rate of failure in them.

In order to minimize the travel of the ball in the cylinder and the flash when the ball jumps from the cylinder to the barrel, losing velocity and possibly causing a chain fire, I put corn meal or Cream of Wheat on top of the powder, leaving just enough space to seat the ball and allow the cylinder to turn. Sometimes I use a fiber wad for a spacer. I put Crisco or Wonder Lube on top of the ball to keep barrel fouling soft.

I had a chain fire once..... now I think it was because caps fell off of the nipples on the cylinders on each side of the indexed one. It must have been on the first shot, of course, to have a loaded cylinder on the "down side" of the shot to go off. I don't see how fire can get past a tightly seated ball in the front of the cylinder. So pinch the caps a bit to get them to stay on the nipples, and unless you are shooting against the clock, glance at the cylinder before taking aim, looking for shiny copper.

By the way, I started shooting black powder in 1976. Take this advice; wear ear protection. I started it way too late and I'm paying the price.

Well, it looks like a Master's Thesis instead of a string of opinions and free advice, so I'll wish you good luck and fun and hit "Submit Reply".

allan1898 · 07-03-2008, 05:21 PM

The navy gots a pikture of a boat on it. Seriously, it's called a navy revolver because of the engraving of the battle of Campeche, naval forces of Mexico and the Republic of Texas in 1843.

nathangdad · 07-03-2008, 06:13 PM

but always remember to grease the front of the loaded chamber as
flash (sparks) can cause a chamber not aligned with the barrel to
fire. I saw this happen and I feel lucky neither the shooter nor myself sustained injury.

So, my bigger theme is to remember safety must come first. Then enjoyment of this type shooting will follow.

Grey Wolf · 07-04-2008, 03:30 PM

Not for sake of argument but for discussion:

re allan1898's reply: Sam Colt was so appreciative for the Texas Navy's purchase of 180 .36 caliber revolvers and 400 .36 caliber revolving rifles that he put the engraving on the cylinders of the 1851 Navy models of the naval battle scene as you wrote. But I don't see how the engravings on Colts caused all following .36 caliber revolvers by every manufacturer to be called "Navy" models. Also, the .44 caliber 1860 Army and 1861 Navy Colts have the same cylinder scene. All .44 caliber revolvers, no matter what make, are called "Army" models. For your entertainment I will attach a copy of Colt advertising that shows cylinder scenes on 3 series of Colts. It apparently was published before the 1860 and 1861 models came out. The stage coach robbery scene that was on 1836-1839 Paterson revolvers was an advertising ploy to show how one man armed with a Colt revolver can foil a robbery attempt by several bad guys. The Model 1847 Walkers and the first 3 models of the Dragoon pistols have a scene showing Texas Rangers under the command of John Coffee Hays defeating 80 Comanche warriors, mainly by the use of pairs of 5 shot .36 caliber revolvers. The 1851 Navy Colts have the naval battle scene as discussed. On the 1860 and 1861 models Colt went back to the naval battle scene.

The first Colt revolver with a personally engraved presentation was a Dragoon pistol given to Sam McCulloch, another Texas Ranger who endorsed Colt's revolvers. He was carrying it when he was killed while serving as a General in the Army of the Confederacy.

More Texas history to be forced on the readers: You probably know that Captain Samuel Walker of the Texas Rangers and later the US Mounted Rifles worked with Colt on making a larger caliber pistol that the .36 Patersons. 1,000 of the Model 1847s were ordered. There were 5 companies, supposedly to be 200 men in each. Each man was to be issued a pair of pistols. It didn't work out that was as Companies A through D were supposedly issued 110 pistols each and Company E got 120. No records survive, but some historians think all 1000 were not issued. Walker wasn't issued his pair in time to take them to war in Mexico, but he had the pair that Colt had given him in appreciation of his help with the design and the order. Colt was bankrupt when they were working together, but Walker didn't know it. An extra 100 pistols were made for presentation to influential people who could influence orders of Colt's products. When Walker was killed at the Battle of Huamantla he was carrying his personal pistols. They were saved by another soldier and made their way back to the US. Several years ago I saw serial number 1020 on display at a gun show in Las Vegas. It was not for sale. This old native Texas confesses to having misty eyes while looking at it. A few months ago I heard that serial number 1019 has been reunited with its mate....at great expense, I am sure. I have visited Walker's grave in San Antonio. His boyhood friend, Captain Richard Gillespie, is buried at the same enclosed site. He was killed in a battle at Monterrey, Mexico. He was leading the Hays Regiment that he had served with as a Ranger, and had been wounded in a battle with the Comanches. The cylinder engraving on Colt Dragoons denotes "Model U.S.M.R." referring to the US Mounted Rifles.

re nathangdad's reply:

I can't grasp that fire could get past a ball that has been forced into the cylinder, shearing a few thousandths of lead in the process. The only answer I can come up with is that fire could bounce off of the recoil shield and into a nipple with no cap or a loose cap. It's too bad nobody has a slow motion movie or video of a chain fire. I have had one, with 3 cylinders going off. No injuries and no gun damage, but pucker factor was off of the scale. But I put something on top of the powder and grease on the loaded ball to keep fouling soft. Who knows what is working? maybe dumb luck.

Speaking of dumb luck, I hope the attachments work.

Kindly note my thread on looking for shooters and reenactors..........

024 Colt revolver cylinder scenes .jpg

006 Walker's personal M1847 #1020 .jpg

rebel727 · 07-15-2008, 06:12 AM

Colt never made a 51 Navy in .44 or with a brass frame. There is a proyotype in the Colt Collection that's now in the CT. State Library but it's a .40, this prototype evolved into the 60 Army. Navies were .36, Armies were .44, cylinder scenes had nothing to do with it. For most repros a .454 ball works best. Use a lubed wad under the ball or a good lube that doesn't melt easily over the ball. I've heard chain fires occur from the nipple end but can't make it happen, not saying they don't but an out of round ball(many of them are)will let flash past if it's not lubed. As for cap size, some take #10, some take #11. Also cap sizes differ with the brand. BP is availabe online but carries a hazmat fee on every order. The more you order the cheaper it gets. Real bp isn't available in but a very few places due to storage requirements.
Traditions doesn't make guns, they import them. The .51's in .44 are made by Pietta. I'd go with the steel frame but the brass will last a very long time if you keep loads on the mild side. These .44 Navies are here to stay, might as well get used to it. If they get more people involved in shooting bp I can live with it.

wunhunglo · 07-15-2008, 06:43 AM

[quote=Grey Wolf;553759]Not for sake of argument but for discussion:

re nathangdad's reply:

I can't grasp that fire could get past a ball that has been forced into the cylinder, shearing a few thousandths of lead in the process. The only answer I can come up with is that fire could bounce off of the recoil shield and into a nipple with no cap or a loose cap. It's too bad nobody has a slow motion movie or video of a chain fire. I have had one, with 3 cylinders going off. No injuries and no gun damage, but pucker factor was off of the scale. But I put something on top of the powder and grease on the loaded ball to keep fouling soft. Who knows what is working? maybe dumb luck.

[quote]

I belong to a club which does a lot of BP pistol shooting and the only chain fire's we've experienced have always been in guns where the shooter did not grease the ball or use a greased wad. No one in the club has experienced a chain fire with a conventionally greased ball. But, there may be some substance in the nipple flash-over theory so I would not rule it out completely.

livebythegun · 07-15-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skittlesV1

i plan on buying this gun 39417 - .44 Caliber 1851 Colt Navy Black Powder Revolver, Walnut Grips, Brass - Manufactured by: Traditions and this starter kit thing 16894 - .44 Caliber Revolver Sportsman's Kit - Manufactured by: Traditions and i need to know a few things, what size caps does this gun use, what kind of powder do i need? where online can i buy the caps and powder, what size balls does this shoot because ive heard .44s use balls from .451 to .457 in diameter but what kind should i get, preferably from that site, do i need wadding and what kind and is there anything else i should buy when i buy this gun? any links alone with sugestions would be greatly appreceated, thanks

I have one and love it shoots really good and fun to shoot. Bottom left in this picture.

Rex in OTZ · 07-21-2008, 08:31 PM

To help ya out you will need a proper size round ball to start with .454 or .457 would be a good start, the caps would be #10 for pistols but #11's have worked on my particular brand of Itialian import, In the front of the Dixie Gunworks catalog they state the bullet size required .454 or .457 , the charge weight usally 23gr and the cap size called out for that particular nipple on that brand revolver as there is a difference in sizes of nipples on .44 cap & ball revolvers, My hand book called for .457 round balls and #11 caps thats all I ever used and have never used the putty/ goop that allot of fellas used to prevent chain fires due to undersize balls and oversize caps, the goop is a crutch for not haveing the proper componets but most folks will tell ya its a lube and its good for ya so if in doubt use the goop to keep the thing from chain fireing in your hand.
it's worth mentioning that if your not shure what size cap to use get one tin of both sizes and go from there, and if in doubt about the ball size go the larger size it will just shave off a heaver ring of lead and that much more lead sealing the chamber.
most .44's will use a 21 - 24 grain charge of fffg powder I have used the same measure for pyrodex pistol with no ill effects. it helps to research the revolver brand and use what is recomended.

rebel727 · 07-21-2008, 10:50 PM

The lube is for more than preventing chain fires. It keeps fouling soft and prevents it from building up which in turn helps accuracy and cleanup. You don't shoot cartridge guns without lubed cast bullets do you?

Rex in OTZ · 07-23-2008, 04:08 PM

some times i do and some times I dont, the EMF 1860 .44 i dont lube anything related to the ball just the mechanism, I had shot one my 45-70's with those same .458 round balls with no lube and no problems, also done some larger bullets in the rifle, I lube them if there grooved for it and shoot dry if they dont, I just dont shoot that many dry ones.

Rex in OTZ · 07-29-2008, 03:31 PM

As I was thinking about this subject I know that the CCI caps I use have to be forced on and if not fully seated they prevent the cylinder from indexing the next shot, the cylinder freeplay may also be a culprit allowing caps to not ride against the recoil shield and have slop on the nipple the discharge of the revolver a high pressure jet of hot gasses would flood the recoil shied area and divert off the hammer ducting the flames in these two adjacent nipples a good idea would be to see if your nipples are on the short side or have been threaded in too tight opening up the gap between the nipple and hammer checking the geomitry of the hammer resting on the bare nipple could be a good place to start, the second is useing a ball that is just barely adiquate, I have used .451's and was surprised that one side dident even shave a lead ring and when pulled the sealing surface was non-existant on 1/3 the ball measuring your projectiles would be very prudent, I have never heard nay comments of chain fire events occoring useing conicals for these revolvers.

06-10-2008, 11:57 PM	#2
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	Welcome to G&G... For Caps, use #10 percussion caps for a pistol. You need FFFg Black powder or Pyrodex . Use The EQUIVALENT VOLUME of Pyrodex to The Weight of Black Powder...Wadding is not needed for a pistol, you load the powder, press in the ball, and seal the cylinder with Grease... I don't know if you can buy powder and caps online , but Walmarts, Bass pro shops, etc. carry the stuff. As far as the ball Diameter, depends on what the Pistol reccomends, normally around .452... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

06-13-2008, 09:43 AM	#3
andrew cochran Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Little town in ARKANSAW! Posts: 2,140	Yeah go to cabelas and you will find powder and caps and bullets. www.cabelas.com __________________ If you don't have anything good to say... Don't say it!

06-13-2008, 05:22 PM	#4
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,437	Yep, . . . make certain you cover the bullets in the cylinder with some type flash retardant as you can get a double ignition. Safety first. I witnessed this with a friend who fired a new copy of the 1858 Remington. No one got hurt but it was truly frightening trying to figure out what happened.

07-02-2008, 01:12 PM	#5
Grey Wolf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Canyon Lake, Texas Posts: 8	opinions only........ I don't understand Traditions. There was no such thing as a .44 caliber 1851 Navy Colt. All four versions of the 1851 models were .36 caliber. I can't find any information on why .36 is a "Navy" caliber and .44 is an "Army" caliber. I have read that some think it's because Colt's first successful revolvers, the Patersons, were the 180 .36 caliber pistols that were bought by the Texas Navy. Colt made a limited number of 1861 "Navy" models in .36 caliber. If it's not too late, I don't recommend brass framed revolvers. Brass is too soft and tolerances tend to grow if the pistols are shot a lot. The Confederacy had pistols made with brass frames because steel was so scarce. Brass just happens to be easier to machine and file than steel. Colt's revolvers are beautiful, but they also tend to loosen up from a lot of shooting. The barrel wedge must be kept tight or the cylinder can move out of alignment with the barrel and cause poor accuracy. I like Remingtons with the solid frames, but I think the Rogers & Spencers are the most beautiful percussion revolvers ever made. I had to sell a 13 piece collection of Civil War revolvers to pay for three spinal surgeries, but I couldn't bear to part with a Rogers & Spencer. The replicas are seldom seen because only one company makes them. The rest of the companies are cranking out Colts and Remingtons. .451 balls are the most common for .44 revolvers. My Ruger Old Army takes .457s as it is actually a .45 caliber. It's one of the early ones that had brass trigger guards and backstraps. I read where a lot of pistol shooters shoot heavy loads. I found that 25 -30 grains of fffg makes a fine load for .44 revolvers. The size of Colt Walker cylinders made them capable of holding 50 plus grains of powder using a round ball. With the metallurgy of the day and the thin cylinder walls between the bores there was an inordinately high rate of failure in them. In order to minimize the travel of the ball in the cylinder and the flash when the ball jumps from the cylinder to the barrel, losing velocity and possibly causing a chain fire, I put corn meal or Cream of Wheat on top of the powder, leaving just enough space to seat the ball and allow the cylinder to turn. Sometimes I use a fiber wad for a spacer. I put Crisco or Wonder Lube on top of the ball to keep barrel fouling soft. I had a chain fire once..... now I think it was because caps fell off of the nipples on the cylinders on each side of the indexed one. It must have been on the first shot, of course, to have a loaded cylinder on the "down side" of the shot to go off. I don't see how fire can get past a tightly seated ball in the front of the cylinder. So pinch the caps a bit to get them to stay on the nipples, and unless you are shooting against the clock, glance at the cylinder before taking aim, looking for shiny copper. By the way, I started shooting black powder in 1976. Take this advice; wear ear protection. I started it way too late and I'm paying the price. Well, it looks like a Master's Thesis instead of a string of opinions and free advice, so I'll wish you good luck and fun and hit "Submit Reply".

07-03-2008, 06:13 PM	#7
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,437	You have some excellent info from the posts but always remember to grease the front of the loaded chamber as flash (sparks) can cause a chamber not aligned with the barrel to fire. I saw this happen and I feel lucky neither the shooter nor myself sustained injury. So, my bigger theme is to remember safety must come first. Then enjoyment of this type shooting will follow.

06-10-2008, 11:34 PM	#1
skittlesV1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1	new to black powder, i need some help i plan on buying this gun 39417 - .44 Caliber 1851 Colt Navy Black Powder Revolver, Walnut Grips, Brass - Manufactured by: Traditions and this starter kit thing 16894 - .44 Caliber Revolver Sportsman's Kit - Manufactured by: Traditions and i need to know a few things, what size caps does this gun use, what kind of powder do i need? where online can i buy the caps and powder, what size balls does this shoot because ive heard .44s use balls from .451 to .457 in diameter but what kind should i get, preferably from that site, do i need wadding and what kind and is there anything else i should buy when i buy this gun? any links alone with sugestions would be greatly appreceated, thanks

07-03-2008, 05:21 PM	#6
allan1898 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 110	The navy gots a pikture of a boat on it. Seriously, it's called a navy revolver because of the engraving of the battle of Campeche, naval forces of Mexico and the Republic of Texas in 1843.

07-04-2008, 03:30 PM	#8
Grey Wolf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Canyon Lake, Texas Posts: 8	discussion Not for sake of argument but for discussion: re allan1898's reply: Sam Colt was so appreciative for the Texas Navy's purchase of 180 .36 caliber revolvers and 400 .36 caliber revolving rifles that he put the engraving on the cylinders of the 1851 Navy models of the naval battle scene as you wrote. But I don't see how the engravings on Colts caused all following .36 caliber revolvers by every manufacturer to be called "Navy" models. Also, the .44 caliber 1860 Army and 1861 Navy Colts have the same cylinder scene. All .44 caliber revolvers, no matter what make, are called "Army" models. For your entertainment I will attach a copy of Colt advertising that shows cylinder scenes on 3 series of Colts. It apparently was published before the 1860 and 1861 models came out. The stage coach robbery scene that was on 1836-1839 Paterson revolvers was an advertising ploy to show how one man armed with a Colt revolver can foil a robbery attempt by several bad guys. The Model 1847 Walkers and the first 3 models of the Dragoon pistols have a scene showing Texas Rangers under the command of John Coffee Hays defeating 80 Comanche warriors, mainly by the use of pairs of 5 shot .36 caliber revolvers. The 1851 Navy Colts have the naval battle scene as discussed. On the 1860 and 1861 models Colt went back to the naval battle scene. The first Colt revolver with a personally engraved presentation was a Dragoon pistol given to Sam McCulloch, another Texas Ranger who endorsed Colt's revolvers. He was carrying it when he was killed while serving as a General in the Army of the Confederacy. More Texas history to be forced on the readers: You probably know that Captain Samuel Walker of the Texas Rangers and later the US Mounted Rifles worked with Colt on making a larger caliber pistol that the .36 Patersons. 1,000 of the Model 1847s were ordered. There were 5 companies, supposedly to be 200 men in each. Each man was to be issued a pair of pistols. It didn't work out that was as Companies A through D were supposedly issued 110 pistols each and Company E got 120. No records survive, but some historians think all 1000 were not issued. Walker wasn't issued his pair in time to take them to war in Mexico, but he had the pair that Colt had given him in appreciation of his help with the design and the order. Colt was bankrupt when they were working together, but Walker didn't know it. An extra 100 pistols were made for presentation to influential people who could influence orders of Colt's products. When Walker was killed at the Battle of Huamantla he was carrying his personal pistols. They were saved by another soldier and made their way back to the US. Several years ago I saw serial number 1020 on display at a gun show in Las Vegas. It was not for sale. This old native Texas confesses to having misty eyes while looking at it. A few months ago I heard that serial number 1019 has been reunited with its mate....at great expense, I am sure. I have visited Walker's grave in San Antonio. His boyhood friend, Captain Richard Gillespie, is buried at the same enclosed site. He was killed in a battle at Monterrey, Mexico. He was leading the Hays Regiment that he had served with as a Ranger, and had been wounded in a battle with the Comanches. The cylinder engraving on Colt Dragoons denotes "Model U.S.M.R." referring to the US Mounted Rifles. re nathangdad's reply: I can't grasp that fire could get past a ball that has been forced into the cylinder, shearing a few thousandths of lead in the process. The only answer I can come up with is that fire could bounce off of the recoil shield and into a nipple with no cap or a loose cap. It's too bad nobody has a slow motion movie or video of a chain fire. I have had one, with 3 cylinders going off. No injuries and no gun damage, but pucker factor was off of the scale. But I put something on top of the powder and grease on the loaded ball to keep fouling soft. Who knows what is working? maybe dumb luck. Speaking of dumb luck, I hope the attachments work. Kindly note my thread on looking for shooters and reenactors.......... 024 Colt revolver cylinder scenes .jpg 006 Walker's personal M1847 #1020 .jpg

07-15-2008, 06:12 AM	#9
rebel727 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Heidelberg, Mississippi Posts: 1,541	Colt never made a 51 Navy in .44 or with a brass frame. There is a proyotype in the Colt Collection that's now in the CT. State Library but it's a .40, this prototype evolved into the 60 Army. Navies were .36, Armies were .44, cylinder scenes had nothing to do with it. For most repros a .454 ball works best. Use a lubed wad under the ball or a good lube that doesn't melt easily over the ball. I've heard chain fires occur from the nipple end but can't make it happen, not saying they don't but an out of round ball(many of them are)will let flash past if it's not lubed. As for cap size, some take #10, some take #11. Also cap sizes differ with the brand. BP is availabe online but carries a hazmat fee on every order. The more you order the cheaper it gets. Real bp isn't available in but a very few places due to storage requirements. Traditions doesn't make guns, they import them. The .51's in .44 are made by Pietta. I'd go with the steel frame but the brass will last a very long time if you keep loads on the mild side. These .44 Navies are here to stay, might as well get used to it. If they get more people involved in shooting bp I can live with it. __________________ North-1 South-0 HALFTIME!

07-15-2008, 06:43 AM	#10
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 1,650	[quote=Grey Wolf;553759]Not for sake of argument but for discussion: re nathangdad's reply: I can't grasp that fire could get past a ball that has been forced into the cylinder, shearing a few thousandths of lead in the process. The only answer I can come up with is that fire could bounce off of the recoil shield and into a nipple with no cap or a loose cap. It's too bad nobody has a slow motion movie or video of a chain fire. I have had one, with 3 cylinders going off. No injuries and no gun damage, but pucker factor was off of the scale. But I put something on top of the powder and grease on the loaded ball to keep fouling soft. Who knows what is working? maybe dumb luck. [quote] I belong to a club which does a lot of BP pistol shooting and the only chain fire's we've experienced have always been in guns where the shooter did not grease the ball or use a greased wad. No one in the club has experienced a chain fire with a conventionally greased ball. But, there may be some substance in the nipple flash-over theory so I would not rule it out completely.

07-21-2008, 08:31 PM	#12
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kotzebue, Alaska Posts: 439	To help ya out you will need a proper size round ball to start with .454 or .457 would be a good start, the caps would be #10 for pistols but #11's have worked on my particular brand of Itialian import, In the front of the Dixie Gunworks catalog they state the bullet size required .454 or .457 , the charge weight usally 23gr and the cap size called out for that particular nipple on that brand revolver as there is a difference in sizes of nipples on .44 cap & ball revolvers, My hand book called for .457 round balls and #11 caps thats all I ever used and have never used the putty/ goop that allot of fellas used to prevent chain fires due to undersize balls and oversize caps, the goop is a crutch for not haveing the proper componets but most folks will tell ya its a lube and its good for ya so if in doubt use the goop to keep the thing from chain fireing in your hand. it's worth mentioning that if your not shure what size cap to use get one tin of both sizes and go from there, and if in doubt about the ball size go the larger size it will just shave off a heaver ring of lead and that much more lead sealing the chamber. most .44's will use a 21 - 24 grain charge of fffg powder I have used the same measure for pyrodex pistol with no ill effects. it helps to research the revolver brand and use what is recomended.

07-21-2008, 10:50 PM	#13
rebel727 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Heidelberg, Mississippi Posts: 1,541	The lube is for more than preventing chain fires. It keeps fouling soft and prevents it from building up which in turn helps accuracy and cleanup. You don't shoot cartridge guns without lubed cast bullets do you? __________________ North-1 South-0 HALFTIME!

07-23-2008, 04:08 PM	#14
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kotzebue, Alaska Posts: 439	Hit & Miss some times i do and some times I dont, the EMF 1860 .44 i dont lube anything related to the ball just the mechanism, I had shot one my 45-70's with those same .458 round balls with no lube and no problems, also done some larger bullets in the rifle, I lube them if there grooved for it and shoot dry if they dont, I just dont shoot that many dry ones.

07-29-2008, 03:31 PM	#15
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kotzebue, Alaska Posts: 439	As I was thinking about this subject I know that the CCI caps I use have to be forced on and if not fully seated they prevent the cylinder from indexing the next shot, the cylinder freeplay may also be a culprit allowing caps to not ride against the recoil shield and have slop on the nipple the discharge of the revolver a high pressure jet of hot gasses would flood the recoil shied area and divert off the hammer ducting the flames in these two adjacent nipples a good idea would be to see if your nipples are on the short side or have been threaded in too tight opening up the gap between the nipple and hammer checking the geomitry of the hammer resting on the bare nipple could be a good place to start, the second is useing a ball that is just barely adiquate, I have used .451's and was surprised that one side dident even shave a lead ring and when pulled the sealing surface was non-existant on 1/3 the ball measuring your projectiles would be very prudent, I have never heard nay comments of chain fire events occoring useing conicals for these revolvers.