Problem sighting in new 223 Handi Rifle

emtp222 · 10-17-2007, 11:00 AM

Just got the daughter a new gun, New England 223 cal. Handi-rifle. Just to start shooting we were using Wolfe 55 grain and a moderate range Simmons. Started at about 2 inches low at 25 yds. at 50 yds. it had raised to 4 inches high and off the paper at 100 yds. What I'm I doing wrong or is this just to complicated a gun for my daughter.

toolman · 10-17-2007, 11:12 AM

Hey guy, welcome to G&G! First off, I'd check to make sure the scope mount and rings are good and tight. I would resight it for 25 yds. then go to the 100 yd. range for the final sighting. Due to the arc of the bullet during flight, it should be fairly close at 25 and 100 yds. Another thing to keep in mind is your rest, are you shooting from any type of rest or sandbag? If so, make sure the forearm is on the front rest and not the barrel. Also don't rest directly off of a solid object as the gun will recoil away from it harder than a softer surface. Above all, try to be as consistent as possible with your rest, trigger control, and breathing. I shoot at the bottom of the natural breath cycle ie: after exhaling, before inhaling. If none of this works, try another scope, yours may have a "wandering zero". Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

Dallas · 10-17-2007, 11:42 AM

I was going to add my 2 cents but Toolman pretty much covered it. Who is actually shooting the rifle you or your daughter? If your daughter, check the basics, stance, rifle tight againist the shoulder correct sight picture etc. By the way welcome aboard the boards.

samuel · 10-17-2007, 12:07 PM

It is absolutely impossible to have a rifle shoot -2" at 25yds and +4" at 50yds. Without adjusting elevation it just isnt possible.And if the mount or rings were that loose you would have to notice it no matter how inept a person was.You just cant get +6" rise in 25yds.If that bullet is 2" low at 25yds it is still going to be low at 50yds.2" low at 25yds would make you way low at 100yds.Dead on at 25yds would make you slightly high at 100yds. sam.

ArkansasHunter · 10-17-2007, 12:27 PM

I can hit 4" low @ 7 oclock @ 100 yards with my Step Fathers Remton ADL 270.
He can hit the bullseye @ 100 yards. You figgure.
toolman covered all the base's and I'll repeat make sure the scope and mounts are tight and you used Loctite on the screws. I use Permatex in the blue tube...A.H

samuel · 10-17-2007, 01:16 PM

A.H.: I dont know exactly what you are talking about but what I meant was draw two parallel lines on a sheet of paper an 1" apart. The bottom line is the bullet line.The top line is the sight line.Touching the sight line on one end,draw another line 15% above the sight line.This is how you would get the bullet to go below the bullseye.Carry that line out to 50" and 100".You will see the bullet line is way below the sight line and going down fast.This isnt accurate but only meant to show when you raise the sight line you lower the bullet line and when you lower the sight line you raise the bullet line.What he said is he had a bullet under the sight line and the further he shot the higher the bullet line got.That is physically impossible. sam.

ArkansasHunter · 10-17-2007, 01:37 PM

samuel what I was saying sometimes a rifle can be sighted in to the owner/user and another person shoot it and it may not be the same zero, such as the case with my Step Fathers rifle. When I shoot his rifle it shoots 4 inches low at 7 oclock at 100 yards.
It's right on target when he shoots it....LOL....You figgure

...A.H

samuel · 10-17-2007, 01:44 PM

I think either him or you have a trigger recoil problem!! Go to the dryfire test and see who it is. sam.

emtp222 · 10-17-2007, 01:57 PM

Thanks so much for all this info. Just found this site and I'm hooked and looking forward to all the info I can obtain. Now looking at it, with this infomation, I'm going to recheck the mounts and scope, since they were on the gun when I purchased it. Also, I didn't expect to get an answer this fast. I'm impressed with the site..THANKS TO ALL!!!

ArkansasHunter · 10-17-2007, 01:57 PM

I'm trying to get him to go shoot it before modern gun deer season opens and the ole buzzard said he was going to use one of his 5 Winchester 30-30's.
Why I don't know, he bought the Remington back in 2005, he used a 30-30 last year
I guess he has more confidents in his Winchesters...A.H

lefty o · 10-17-2007, 02:45 PM

if the mmounts and rings are tight, and you are not having major issues with the person shooting it, it is quite possible the scope is faulty.

samuel · 10-17-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefty o

if the mmounts and rings are tight, and you are not having major issues with the person shooting it, it is quite possible the scope is faulty.

I would think if the scope were bad or for that matter the rings loose it would scatter shots all over.I wonder about the shooter.Of course when I reread it he did say a Simmons scope.If it is an ElCheapo that could be it. sam.

lefty o · 10-17-2007, 03:43 PM

sometimes when a scope fails, they cant hold shots on a 4x8 sheet of plywood, and othertimes its 2-4" groups. all simmons scopes are el cheapo's!

killer · 10-17-2007, 04:49 PM

I have a handi in 30-06 and noticed what I would consider a pretty hefty jump too.
How high is the scope off the barrel? Ammo can do crazy things too. What does it do when you fire it?

jerry · 10-17-2007, 08:18 PM

Regardless of where it is hitting at the moment, what is the group size with 3-5 shot strings?

Zen900 · 10-17-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

samuel what I was saying sometimes a rifle can be sighted in to the owner/user and another person shoot it and it may not be the same zero, such as the case with my Step Fathers rifle. When I shoot his rifle it shoots 4 inches low at 7 oclock at 100 yards.
It's right on target when he shoots it....LOL....You figgure

...A.H

This could be a parallax prob. If StepDad doesn't center the target in the scope and you do then parallax will cause diffent poi. In fact this whole thread could be a parallax problem.

emtp222 · 10-17-2007, 11:34 PM

It's a flush mount, and I agree about the scope and plan to buy a better on as soon as possible. This was a quick thing when she said she wanted to go hunting with ole dad and you know how quick I got on that, getting to spend time with a female teenager in the woods hunting. I was trying to get her excited about shooting and going as quick as I could. As for the grouping, it was a tight group at both ranges, of about an inch.

jerry · 10-18-2007, 05:27 AM

Why would someone want to enter a discussion and state that the whole discussion is a problem. WTF over?

Dallas · 10-18-2007, 09:45 AM

Hey Jerry maybe he was trying to make a joke that we were all missing the obvious (to him) problem. Then again..... Perhaps he will take a moment to explain himself.

Deersniper · 10-18-2007, 10:57 AM

Simmons scope eh? What model? Every bodies eyes are different, but it sounds like the scope. Ammo can vary too. Try some expensive ammo like Black Hills or Federal. Is the barrel broke in? Shots will be different while it is breaking in, or if it gets too warm. I make sure it is cool to to the touch between shots. Welcome!

10-17-2007, 11:00 AM	#1
emtp222 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Walnut Cove, NC Posts: 3	Problem sighting in new 223 Handi Rifle Just got the daughter a new gun, New England 223 cal. Handi-rifle. Just to start shooting we were using Wolfe 55 grain and a moderate range Simmons. Started at about 2 inches low at 25 yds. at 50 yds. it had raised to 4 inches high and off the paper at 100 yds. What I'm I doing wrong or is this just to complicated a gun for my daughter.

10-17-2007, 11:12 AM	#2
toolman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 4,498 Blog Entries: 14	Hey guy, welcome to G&G! First off, I'd check to make sure the scope mount and rings are good and tight. I would resight it for 25 yds. then go to the 100 yd. range for the final sighting. Due to the arc of the bullet during flight, it should be fairly close at 25 and 100 yds. Another thing to keep in mind is your rest, are you shooting from any type of rest or sandbag? If so, make sure the forearm is on the front rest and not the barrel. Also don't rest directly off of a solid object as the gun will recoil away from it harder than a softer surface. Above all, try to be as consistent as possible with your rest, trigger control, and breathing. I shoot at the bottom of the natural breath cycle ie: after exhaling, before inhaling. If none of this works, try another scope, yours may have a "wandering zero". Good Luck and let us know how it goes. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

10-17-2007, 11:42 AM	#3
Dallas PUKHA DAWG Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia, just outside of Washington D.C. Posts: 3,581	I was going to add my 2 cents but Toolman pretty much covered it. Who is actually shooting the rifle you or your daughter? If your daughter, check the basics, stance, rifle tight againist the shoulder correct sight picture etc. By the way welcome aboard the boards. __________________ Those who forget History are condemed to repeat it.

10-17-2007, 04:49 PM	#14
killer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the rat race Posts: 666 Images: 2	I have a handi in 30-06 and noticed what I would consider a pretty hefty jump too. How high is the scope off the barrel? Ammo can do crazy things too. What does it do when you fire it? __________________ "Yeee Hawww...I'm a cowboy on an iron horse." Killer's cabin: http://buckmountainchateau.com/

10-17-2007, 08:18 PM	#15
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,640 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	Regardless of where it is hitting at the moment, what is the group size with 3-5 shot strings? __________________

10-17-2007, 12:07 PM	#4
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,503	It is absolutely impossible to have a rifle shoot -2" at 25yds and +4" at 50yds. Without adjusting elevation it just isnt possible.And if the mount or rings were that loose you would have to notice it no matter how inept a person was.You just cant get +6" rise in 25yds.If that bullet is 2" low at 25yds it is still going to be low at 50yds.2" low at 25yds would make you way low at 100yds.Dead on at 25yds would make you slightly high at 100yds. sam.

10-17-2007, 12:27 PM	#5
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,717	I can hit 4" low @ 7 oclock @ 100 yards with my Step Fathers Remton ADL 270. He can hit the bullseye @ 100 yards. You figgure. toolman covered all the base's and I'll repeat make sure the scope and mounts are tight and you used Loctite on the screws. I use Permatex in the blue tube...A.H

10-17-2007, 01:16 PM	#6
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,503	A.H.: I dont know exactly what you are talking about but what I meant was draw two parallel lines on a sheet of paper an 1" apart. The bottom line is the bullet line.The top line is the sight line.Touching the sight line on one end,draw another line 15% above the sight line.This is how you would get the bullet to go below the bullseye.Carry that line out to 50" and 100".You will see the bullet line is way below the sight line and going down fast.This isnt accurate but only meant to show when you raise the sight line you lower the bullet line and when you lower the sight line you raise the bullet line.What he said is he had a bullet under the sight line and the further he shot the higher the bullet line got.That is physically impossible. sam.

10-17-2007, 01:37 PM	#7
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,717	samuel what I was saying sometimes a rifle can be sighted in to the owner/user and another person shoot it and it may not be the same zero, such as the case with my Step Fathers rifle. When I shoot his rifle it shoots 4 inches low at 7 oclock at 100 yards. It's right on target when he shoots it....LOL....You figgure ...A.H

10-17-2007, 01:44 PM	#8
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,503	I think either him or you have a trigger recoil problem!! Go to the dryfire test and see who it is. sam.

10-17-2007, 01:57 PM	#9
emtp222 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Walnut Cove, NC Posts: 3	Thanks so much for all this info. Just found this site and I'm hooked and looking forward to all the info I can obtain. Now looking at it, with this infomation, I'm going to recheck the mounts and scope, since they were on the gun when I purchased it. Also, I didn't expect to get an answer this fast. I'm impressed with the site..THANKS TO ALL!!!

10-17-2007, 02:45 PM	#11
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,245	if the mmounts and rings are tight, and you are not having major issues with the person shooting it, it is quite possible the scope is faulty.

10-17-2007, 03:43 PM	#13
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,245	sometimes when a scope fails, they cant hold shots on a 4x8 sheet of plywood, and othertimes its 2-4" groups. all simmons scopes are el cheapo's!

10-17-2007, 11:34 PM	#17
emtp222 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Walnut Cove, NC Posts: 3	It's a flush mount, and I agree about the scope and plan to buy a better on as soon as possible. This was a quick thing when she said she wanted to go hunting with ole dad and you know how quick I got on that, getting to spend time with a female teenager in the woods hunting. I was trying to get her excited about shooting and going as quick as I could. As for the grouping, it was a tight group at both ranges, of about an inch.

10-18-2007, 05:27 AM	#18
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,640 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	Why would someone want to enter a discussion and state that the whole discussion is a problem. WTF over? __________________

10-18-2007, 09:45 AM	#19
Dallas PUKHA DAWG Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia, just outside of Washington D.C. Posts: 3,581	Hey Jerry maybe he was trying to make a joke that we were all missing the obvious (to him) problem. Then again..... Perhaps he will take a moment to explain himself. __________________ Those who forget History are condemed to repeat it.

10-18-2007, 10:57 AM	#20
Deersniper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 910	.223 Simmons scope eh? What model? Every bodies eyes are different, but it sounds like the scope. Ammo can vary too. Try some expensive ammo like Black Hills or Federal. Is the barrel broke in? Shots will be different while it is breaking in, or if it gets too warm. I make sure it is cool to to the touch between shots. Welcome!

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