My Relative has a small automatic Sig I think, and he has CHL too. He keeps the thing in a holster under his leg while driving to be ready to deal with any carjackers. He has the thing cocked and chambered with only a safety switch to keep it from going off unintended.
My reaction is he needs two levels of safety and his claim that the holster protects the switch is not a good one. Am I right to think that he is keeping this in a too dangerous mode for being safe to himself and others too?
My knowledge of guns would have him chamber the bullet but have the hammer uncocked as well as the safety switch on.
What should I tell him, and what do most CHL people do with their weapons?
The gun is probably safe as it is, since that is probably the designed carry mode. As to your friend's carrying mode in the car; feeling that he is such a target for car jackers; he must drive a very fancy car in dangerous neighborhoods. Most jackers won't attempt anything with young guys. In my opinion, anyone that is THAT afraid of being a target, is more likely to over-react in situations that do not warrant action. If your friend drives in a good neighborhood, and usually does this during the day also, he is too paranoid.
The gun is probably safe as it is, since that is probably the designed carry mode. As to your friend's carrying mode in the car; feeling that he is such a target for car jackers; he must drive a very fancy car in dangerous neighborhoods. Most jackers won't attempt anything with young guys. In my opinion, anyone that is THAT afraid of being a target, is more likely to over-react in situations that do not warrant action. If your friend drives in a good neighborhood, and usually does this during the day also, he is too paranoid.
I am not disagreeing with your premise I do however think sometimes people are lulled into a false sense of security by the idea that they live in, work in, walk in etc. a nice neighborhood. Again not saying your assessment was wrong, just pointing out that sometimes people think a good neighborhood means nothing bad happens in it.
Everyone that carries needs to be proficient with the controls on any firearm they choose to carry. That proficiency comes only with practice. If the original post refers to the Sig P238, then cocked and locked, like the 1911 is a perfectly safe way to carry.
Depends on the pistol. If the safety can be engaged while the hammer is back, sounds like a 1911 & they are normally carried that way (cocked & locked). Of course they do have two mechanical safeties, the thumb safety & the grip safety.
The Colt Mustang & Sig. P238 are also commonly carried cocked & locked & do not have a grip safety. I'm sure there are others, but I'm not familiar with them. Of course, as already stated, finger off the trigger is the best safety.
I am not disagreeing with your premise I do however think sometimes people are lulled into a false sense of security by the idea that they live in, work in, walk in etc. a nice neighborhood. Again not saying your assessment was wrong, just pointing out that sometimes people think a good neighborhood means nothing bad happens in it.
I live in more dangerous neighborhood than my brother, and drive a Toyota Corrola Matrix and he an Avalon. I don't carry or own a weapon but am less paranoid than him. Under your leg is not going to feel good in the car seat. It would be better if he left the gun in the center console, (he is licensed to do that w/ the Texas CHL?). That Sig is small and I figure you want to see where your hand is when you reach for the holster.
For me, I am considering a double action revolver for bedroom because you have three levels of safety: the two trigger pull and the safety.
Moonrunner49: Sir, I own a dozen or more revolvers, brain and finger are the only safety I've seen with revolvers; single or double action.
Be very careful, with any and all
If it has a decocker then hammer down, safety on is a great carry mode. Needs to be DA/SA for that to work though, but I think virtually any pistol with a decocker has a DA/SA trigger. Not to go off topic, but for M14man, from what I have learned about hardcore criminals through documentaries, college, etc. Most of the major players live in the suburbs, and their fairly simple henchmen live in the hood to do all of the dirty work.
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I think he knows what he's doing, so thanks.
I just purchased my first gun and it's a double action so I feel OK having it loaded in my safe. I haven't decided whether to chamber the round or leave it unchambered with a loaded clip. So far I haven't chambered it. Waiting for the range.
I think he knows what he's doing, so thanks.
I just purchased my first gun and it's a double action so I feel OK having it loaded in my safe. I haven't decided whether to chamber the round or leave it unchambered with a loaded clip. So far I haven't chambered it. Waiting for the range.
Something to consider is that keeping a loaded gun in the gun safe could be a problem during a house fire, especially with revolvers.
Ammunition in it's own boxes will simply "pop" in a fire, but cartridges contained in a chamber will fire just the same as if they were shot from the gun.
In the case of the semi-auto pistol, no problem with rounds in the magazine. The only one that would "fire" would be one in the chamber.
I'm not saying it is dangerous to do so, but it is something to consider.
Congratulations on your first purchase!
Now, READ the Owner's Manual, take the gun out of the safe, go to the range with an experienced shooter, and learn how to use it effectively.
Then, enjoy the sport of shooting, for the rest of your life.
I live in more dangerous neighborhood than my brother, and drive a Toyota Corrola Matrix and he an Avalon. I don't carry or own a weapon but am less paranoid than him. Under your leg is not going to feel good in the car seat. It would be better if he left the gun in the center console, (he is licensed to do that w/ the Texas CHL?). That Sig is small and I figure you want to see where your hand is when you reach for the holster.
For me, I am considering a double action revolver for bedroom because you have three levels of safety: the two trigger pull and the safety.
Texas, you do not need any kind of license to carry a gun in your vehicle...over 21, it's no stolen, you're legal to carry it. When I am driving I put my gun in the door pouch loaded and chambered. Most times it's a glock 23 or glock 21, so the booger hook and what little brain I have is my safety
A gun needs to be secure, with trigger guard covered/enclosed when not in the hand.
A holster is a fantastic part of this, but only if it completely secured, as by a waistband, or inside a latched/zipped container. The danger in a vehicle is that gun and holster may go flying in the event of a hard break or a crash. It is therefore important that the gun and holster be immobilized in such a manner that it in the event of a crash, the gun does not move and the trigger is not exposed.
IF that requirement is met, the safety selection is a bonus. I believe in bonus safeties, because your first line of defense (keeping the hammer from being struck or the trigger pulled) can fail.
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Last edited by BarryHalls; 05-22-2012 at 03:09 PM.
It is impossible for me to make a comment because I did not get what type of Sig your friend had--and your post indicates to me (no offense intended in any way) you might be able to use a little more training in firearms. The book "combat handgunnery" by Mas Ayoob is excellent to read for a beginner--or even someone who has shot quite a bit. There are also other excellent books and this site is a great place to learn with good understanding people.
I own several Sigs--among which are a Sig C3 1911, a few 238's, a 239, and a 220. They ALL have different triggers; to complicate matters the 220 is available in a single action only version (the 1911's are ALL single actions).
There are basically 3 triggers I know of on a Sig: The Traditional Double Action (TDA) trigger, the Double Action Kellerman (DAK) trigger, and the Single action Trigger (found on some 220 variants, the 238, and the 1911s). Only the single action Sigs have a true safety--the others have a lever which lowers the hammer safely to a safe position (known as a decocking lever), or no lever at all (ala the DAK guns which are effectively double action only).
ALL Sigs I know of incorporate a positive firing pin block which prevent the gun from ever firing UNLESS the trigger gets depressed somehow. The SAs incorporate this as well, but are not safe to carry without the safety engaged due to their relatively light trigger pull. On the TDAs and the DAKs the safety IS the long double action trigger pull. On the TDAs as well following shots are light single action, so the hammer should be decocked when in a safe direction before holstering or handling following a shooting event.
I believe ALL carry or car handguns which might need to be used need to be carried with round chambered at the ready in the manner designed by the manufacturer.
If his gun is equpped with the TDA trigger the gun is NOT safe cocked and must be decocked if the hammer is back. This is accomplished with the gun in a safe direction (and finger should ALWAYS be OUTSIDE the trigger guard when the gun is not pointed safely at a target) pressing downward on the spring loaded lever located on the left side of the gun. The hammer will lower and the lever can be released where it will return to the up position. The gun is now decocked and safe to carry.
The DAK trigger is double action only and effectively decocks itself; no action is required save release it.
If it's a single action version of the 220 (there is also another older SA gun but I don't know what it is) the safety should be engaged before carry.
If it is a 238 the gun should be carried with a round chambered, safety on. This will be with the hammer back, round chambered, and safety in the up position. The gun can be CLEARED with the safety on (i.e. unloaded and IMHO SHOULD have the safety on to clear it); however, it cannot be initially loaded (i.e. slide drawn back) unless the safety is OFF. Basically with the hammer down the safety needs to be OFF to cycle the slide.
If it's a 1911 variant these are designed to be carried "cocked and locked" -- round chambered; safety on. UP is engaged for the safety. Although some internet warriors like to carry 1911s differently (and I don't tell people what to do with their guns) I consider cocked and locked the ONLY safe way to CARRY a 1911. Kindly note that with the hammer back and safety on the gun is as safe--if not safer--than a Glock, M&P, Springfield, or the like (which are also cocked it's just you can't see the hammer mechanism). Storage might be another matter--I don't mind storage in condition 3.
Good luck and remember just having a gun isn't particularly useful for self-defense--and can actually be dangerous. The gun is simply a tool in the SYSTEM of self defense. YOU are the most important part and in order to be effective and safe must be well trained. A well trained guy with a Kel Tec beats an inept guy with an Ed Brown or Les Baer any day.
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I was at the range and saw my brother's gun. It is a sig 238 if I remember correctly. It holds 6 shots. Very easy to shoot but it really is small.
Cool and thanks--Cocked and locked (i.e. hammer back, safety ON -- magazine topped off after chambering round for the 6 in the mag 1 in the chamber max capacity) is the way I carry mine. Perfectly safe that way.
I am an advocate of having a holster for ANY pocket gun and if it is in a pocket NOTHING else is in the pocket with it.
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