How do you know if the scope is bad?

shollis · 12-23-2007, 08:18 PM

OK, I'm discouraged.

I've been slowly building my Mosin Nagant into a scout rifle. I got the rear sight mount and tried hard to find a scout scope that was in my budget. At a local gun show, I found a scope with a long eye relief.

The problems started when I took the gun home to get my dad to help me sight it in. I'm a decent shot, but my dad is better and it's a cool father-son thing to do even though I am grown and have kids of my own.

The first problem was that the scope mount kept coming loose with the recoil. A trip to the gunsmith (the gunsmith out in the country is usually cheaper than the ones here in Nashville) and he replaced the aluminum screws with steel ones and redrilled the mount holes ont he mount. He said that the scope mount holes were just enough off that the steel sight mount shaved the threads off the aluminum screws.

Back to the range when the second problems started. The gun shot fine on paper at 25 yards. We got it to go into 1" groups. The scope screws came loose a bit, but the gunsmith didn't put loc-tite on them and might not have tightened them too much to begin with.

At 100 yards, my misery began. We were shooting at a flat screen TV box. The shots were all over the place. Not only that, but as we turned the windage and elevation knobs, the results were inconsistent. We'd turn the scope up 8 clicks and the shot would go high about an inch. We'd turn it up 8 more and the shot would be 3 inches below the previous shot. I was shooting Winchester and Yugoslavian 180 grain ammo.

The scope was a Tasco 4 x 32. I know Tasco is not a great scope brand (now).

I thought about putting the scope on my .22 which I *know* is a straight shooter, but if it's the Mosin recoil that's knocking it out of alignment, then it might work with the .22.

At this point, I am thinking I should just put my rear sight back on the mosin and hunt with my .30-.30 for the last 2 weeks of deer season and save up and get a decent scout scope over the summer.

I hate thinking it could be the gun. My father doesn't think so. The bore looks very clean and the rifling looks good and I have previously shot pie plate groups with open sights at 100 yards.

I guess that I'm just looking for encouragement that I blew my money on the scope and learned a hard lesson rather than losing money on the scope, mount, AND gun.

I did learn my lesson about second hand gun show scopes...

lefty o · 12-23-2007, 08:26 PM

if the scope/mount are moving even ever so slightly it can cause huge differences in point of impact from one shot to another. you need to get that mount locked down solid, then if your groups dont improve try another scope. .001" of movement = 1" at 100yds.

JSnover · 12-23-2007, 08:36 PM

After you've made sure the scope mount is tight, check everything else. I've had good rifles appear to go bad when stock screws, barrel bands, sight bases and pretty much everything else comes loose for whatever reason. The problem is it doesn't happen very often, so we tend not to look for it.

bigbuddy21 · 12-23-2007, 10:34 PM

also try another scope, tasco is not a good one.

billy · 12-23-2007, 11:36 PM

bang it on the coffee table.
if it rattles it's broke.

lefty o · 12-24-2007, 09:28 AM

LOL!!!!!!

billy · 12-24-2007, 09:31 AM

i couldnt help it!
my fingers typed that before i could stop em!

yzstud · 12-24-2007, 09:35 AM

maybe its not the scope or any other problem with the gun..........maybe its the barrel!!!!

try this out: Mosin Nagant Rifle Bore Slugging Tutorial

shollis · 12-24-2007, 12:15 PM

yzstud, I don't think it's the barrel. Before I put the scope mount on I was shooting 4" groups at 50 yards and 7" groups at 100 yards with iron sights.

Zen900 · 12-25-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shollis

yzstud, I don't think it's the barrel. Before I put the scope mount on I was shooting 4" groups at 50 yards and 7" groups at 100 yards with iron sights.

I have only seen two friends try and mount scopes on surplus rifles: one was a Mauser the other a Nagant. They did not come right out and tell me but I gathered that neither gun was ever as accurate with the scope as they were with the metal sights. Right now I have the whole setup w/reddot to stick on top my SKS but I may never even bother installing it.

billy · 12-25-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen900

I have only seen two friends try and mount scopes on surplus rifles: one was a Mauser the other a Nagant. They did not come right out and tell me but I gathered that neither gun was ever as accurate with the scope as they were with the metal sights. Right now I have the whole setup w/reddot to stick on top my SKS but I may never even bother installing it.

on my sks it was the same .
so i took it off

Mooseman684 · 12-25-2007, 07:28 PM

A friend of mine bought a Scout scope mount for his MN 91/30. He installed it and then had all kinds of problems with it, so he brought it to me. I was Not impressed with the mount or the design itself. I had to alter the thing in order to get it tight and even then ,I told him that he might have problems , due to the design and not being able lock it down in place better...
I like what Billy did on his Mosin Nagant...
Rich

toolman · 12-26-2007, 12:01 AM

shollis, I agree with Leftyand JSN, make sure that there is no movement anywhere in the mount and the action screws are good and tight. Some of the cheap mounts will actually bend under recoil. I've had good luck with the 2x20 Tasco on my M-44. i've taken four deer in two seasons and the shortest shot was 175 yds. This gun shoots MOA with good handloads. I've got a B-Square mount, Tasco 2x20 Trophy class scope, and B-Square 30mm Utility rings. I've never had the mount shift and the only time I have make an adjustment to the scope is when I change loads or distances.

samuel · 12-26-2007, 05:09 AM

I have often had machine marks or wire edges on rings and bases and had to polish them to stop movement. sam.

Dookiebutt · 12-26-2007, 06:40 AM

I seem to remember that there were two different kinds of scope mounts - one that was cheap aluminum or some similar material and one that was better quality steel. Some were claiming the aluminum mount would actually bend from the recoil of the mosin and easily be bent during transport and storage. I have never been a Tasco fan. You might look at some of the Russian or Chinese lower-priced scopes.

I'll click around tonight and see what I can find.

blaster · 12-26-2007, 07:21 AM

I've had a Tasco 3x9 on my 30/06 for the last 17 years and the only problem I had was when I first put it on I didn't locktite it. It was doing exactly what yours is doing. I sporterized a Yugo sks and every time I shot it the impact changed. come to find out the gun was moving so slightly in the ATI stock. I shimmed it up and the problem was cured.

12-23-2007, 08:18 PM	#1
shollis Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 41	How do you know if the scope is bad? OK, I'm discouraged. I've been slowly building my Mosin Nagant into a scout rifle. I got the rear sight mount and tried hard to find a scout scope that was in my budget. At a local gun show, I found a scope with a long eye relief. The problems started when I took the gun home to get my dad to help me sight it in. I'm a decent shot, but my dad is better and it's a cool father-son thing to do even though I am grown and have kids of my own. The first problem was that the scope mount kept coming loose with the recoil. A trip to the gunsmith (the gunsmith out in the country is usually cheaper than the ones here in Nashville) and he replaced the aluminum screws with steel ones and redrilled the mount holes ont he mount. He said that the scope mount holes were just enough off that the steel sight mount shaved the threads off the aluminum screws. Back to the range when the second problems started. The gun shot fine on paper at 25 yards. We got it to go into 1" groups. The scope screws came loose a bit, but the gunsmith didn't put loc-tite on them and might not have tightened them too much to begin with. At 100 yards, my misery began. We were shooting at a flat screen TV box. The shots were all over the place. Not only that, but as we turned the windage and elevation knobs, the results were inconsistent. We'd turn the scope up 8 clicks and the shot would go high about an inch. We'd turn it up 8 more and the shot would be 3 inches below the previous shot. I was shooting Winchester and Yugoslavian 180 grain ammo. The scope was a Tasco 4 x 32. I know Tasco is not a great scope brand (now). I thought about putting the scope on my .22 which I know is a straight shooter, but if it's the Mosin recoil that's knocking it out of alignment, then it might work with the .22. At this point, I am thinking I should just put my rear sight back on the mosin and hunt with my .30-.30 for the last 2 weeks of deer season and save up and get a decent scout scope over the summer. I hate thinking it could be the gun. My father doesn't think so. The bore looks very clean and the rifling looks good and I have previously shot pie plate groups with open sights at 100 yards. I guess that I'm just looking for encouragement that I blew my money on the scope and learned a hard lesson rather than losing money on the scope, mount, AND gun. I did learn my lesson about second hand gun show scopes...

12-23-2007, 10:34 PM	#4
bigbuddy21 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: new albany in. Posts: 973 Images: 5	also try another scope, tasco is not a good one. __________________ LAND OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!

12-23-2007, 11:36 PM	#5
billy spiritual counselor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 11,954 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 146	bang it on the coffee table. if it rattles it's broke. __________________ just leave britney ALONE! she's going thru a hard time snivel sniff....WAH

12-24-2007, 09:31 AM	#7
billy spiritual counselor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 11,954 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 146	i couldnt help it! my fingers typed that before i could stop em! __________________ just leave britney ALONE! she's going thru a hard time snivel sniff....WAH

12-25-2007, 07:28 PM	#12
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,637 Images: 2	A friend of mine bought a Scout scope mount for his MN 91/30. He installed it and then had all kinds of problems with it, so he brought it to me. I was Not impressed with the mount or the design itself. I had to alter the thing in order to get it tight and even then ,I told him that he might have problems , due to the design and not being able lock it down in place better... I like what Billy did on his Mosin Nagant... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

12-23-2007, 08:26 PM	#2
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,785	if the scope/mount are moving even ever so slightly it can cause huge differences in point of impact from one shot to another. you need to get that mount locked down solid, then if your groups dont improve try another scope. .001" of movement = 1" at 100yds.

12-23-2007, 08:36 PM	#3
JSnover Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 186	After you've made sure the scope mount is tight, check everything else. I've had good rifles appear to go bad when stock screws, barrel bands, sight bases and pretty much everything else comes loose for whatever reason. The problem is it doesn't happen very often, so we tend not to look for it.

12-24-2007, 09:28 AM	#6
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,785	LOL!!!!!!

12-24-2007, 09:35 AM	#8
yzstud Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: MN Posts: 40 Images: 1	maybe its not the scope or any other problem with the gun..........maybe its the barrel!!!! try this out: Mosin Nagant Rifle Bore Slugging Tutorial

12-24-2007, 12:15 PM	#9
shollis Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 41	yzstud, I don't think it's the barrel. Before I put the scope mount on I was shooting 4" groups at 50 yards and 7" groups at 100 yards with iron sights.

12-26-2007, 12:01 AM	#13
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,566 Blog Entries: 22	shollis, I agree with Leftyand JSN, make sure that there is no movement anywhere in the mount and the action screws are good and tight. Some of the cheap mounts will actually bend under recoil. I've had good luck with the 2x20 Tasco on my M-44. i've taken four deer in two seasons and the shortest shot was 175 yds. This gun shoots MOA with good handloads. I've got a B-Square mount, Tasco 2x20 Trophy class scope, and B-Square 30mm Utility rings. I've never had the mount shift and the only time I have make an adjustment to the scope is when I change loads or distances. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

12-26-2007, 05:09 AM	#14
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	I have often had machine marks or wire edges on rings and bases and had to polish them to stop movement. sam.

12-26-2007, 06:40 AM	#15
Dookiebutt Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: America's North Coast Posts: 1,156	I seem to remember that there were two different kinds of scope mounts - one that was cheap aluminum or some similar material and one that was better quality steel. Some were claiming the aluminum mount would actually bend from the recoil of the mosin and easily be bent during transport and storage. I have never been a Tasco fan. You might look at some of the Russian or Chinese lower-priced scopes. I'll click around tonight and see what I can find.

12-26-2007, 07:21 AM	#16
blaster Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: big pine key, florida Posts: 435	I've had a Tasco 3x9 on my 30/06 for the last 17 years and the only problem I had was when I first put it on I didn't locktite it. It was doing exactly what yours is doing. I sporterized a Yugo sks and every time I shot it the impact changed. come to find out the gun was moving so slightly in the ATI stock. I shimmed it up and the problem was cured. __________________ peace through superior firepower