what is this gun???????

bheiser · 10-17-2006, 06:54 PM

what the heck is this? i bought it at an estate auction. caliber? country of origin? value?
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun5.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun4.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun3.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun2.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun1.jpg

MountaineerWVa · 10-17-2006, 07:12 PM

It looks kinda like an old Ivor Johnson,probaly32 caliber,but if it was it ought to be stamped Ivor Johnson Arms and Cycle Works.

Pred · 10-17-2006, 07:22 PM

Hmmm, I'll give ya $50 for it.

fred · 10-17-2006, 07:25 PM

Any chance it could be a middle eastern copy of a Webley? Looks like a fairly large bore and the top-break action is similar to a Webley. I've heard that blacksmith/gunsmith cottage industries from what is now Pakistan to the Arabian peninsula got very good at this sort of thing.

Johnny_Revolver · 10-17-2006, 07:25 PM

Isnt it one of those English things, an early Webley, or that other manufacturer, starts with H.. I bet someone knows, most likely Big Dog. Edit, Okay, it does look sorta new.. So yeah I dunno.

MosinDave · 10-17-2006, 07:28 PM

the design looks very Webley-ish to me. Whatever it is it looks pretty neat!

Zen900 · 10-17-2006, 07:33 PM

32 S&w

Big Dog · 10-17-2006, 07:34 PM

The closest thing I can liken it to is the Webley-Wilkinson, except it doesn't have the Webley-style cylinder latch. The barrel, tilt pivot and grip certainly looks Webleyish. Caliber may be .455, if it is a larger caliber gun. Probably made in the 1890's to 1900's - definitely pre-1910.

Nifty collectible, but I have no idea as to value.

bheiser · 10-17-2006, 07:40 PM

it is very old. doesnt have any english markings. it is a bit larger than a .45.

bheiser · 10-18-2006, 01:51 AM

Pred · 10-18-2006, 06:06 AM

I'm gonna post this same question on a few differnt forums and see what they come up with. This has got me interested.

Pred · 10-18-2006, 12:54 PM

Ok, a couple questions some people asked:

What do you have to do to break it?
Is it an automatic ejector or manual like an S&W?
What markings are on it?
Double or single action?

ash · 10-18-2006, 02:19 PM

Looks like an H&R.

bheiser · 10-18-2006, 09:56 PM

you have to lift the latch by the sights to break it,
it is an automatic ejector
it is double action
most markings are covered by the engravery, on the bottom of the barrel i can make out what looks to be arabic.

drinks · 10-18-2006, 10:11 PM

I would guess it is a near east copy of a French or Belgian design, possibly Spanish.
1880+ design

Big Dog · 10-19-2006, 04:33 AM

The basic design is absolutely early Webley. Where it was made is anybody's guess, unless markings can be decyphered.

bheiser · 10-20-2006, 01:09 PM

Pred · 10-21-2006, 08:41 AM

One guy had this to say:

"The extractor system is similar to the Gasser 11mm revolver.

When the Austro-Hugarian military ditched the Gasser, many were bought by Montenegro. Later, their King Nicolas decreed that all adult males had to own a revolver, and there was an immeadiate high demand for handguns of the same type the military was using. So all sorts of copies and clones of the Gasser in various forms and types were made by all sorts of workshops and craftsmen in Montenegro.

I'm leaning towards it being one of these clones."

bheiser · 10-21-2006, 05:10 PM

interesting.....

Jaymo · 10-22-2006, 05:54 AM

There is no question that it has the recognisable look and shape of the English Webley top break that we often see in .455 caliber but chances are it may be some kind of a clone perhaps from Germany or even an Eastern Bloc Nation. It will be helpful to decifer those markings and maybe even see if the engraving is similar to a certain nation, good luck with your search.

10-17-2006, 06:54 PM	#1
bheiser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Parkville MD Posts: 202 Trader Rating: (0)	what is this gun??????? what the heck is this? i bought it at an estate auction. caliber? country of origin? value? http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun5.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun4.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun3.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun2.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._2006/gun1.jpg __________________ Walther PPK,RIA 1911, FN-FAL308 Mossy500:uzi:

10-17-2006, 07:34 PM	#8
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,071 Trader Rating: (0)	The closest thing I can liken it to is the Webley-Wilkinson, except it doesn't have the Webley-style cylinder latch. The barrel, tilt pivot and grip certainly looks Webleyish. Caliber may be .455, if it is a larger caliber gun. Probably made in the 1890's to 1900's - definitely pre-1910. Nifty collectible, but I have no idea as to value. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

10-17-2006, 07:40 PM	#9
bheiser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Parkville MD Posts: 202 Trader Rating: (0)	it is very old. doesnt have any english markings. it is a bit larger than a .45. __________________ Walther PPK,RIA 1911, FN-FAL308 Mossy500:uzi:

10-18-2006, 01:51 AM	#10
bheiser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Parkville MD Posts: 202 Trader Rating: (0)	bump __________________ Walther PPK,RIA 1911, FN-FAL308 Mossy500:uzi:

10-18-2006, 09:56 PM	#14
bheiser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Parkville MD Posts: 202 Trader Rating: (0)	you have to lift the latch by the sights to break it, it is an automatic ejector it is double action most markings are covered by the engravery, on the bottom of the barrel i can make out what looks to be arabic. __________________ Walther PPK,RIA 1911, FN-FAL308 Mossy500:uzi:

10-17-2006, 07:12 PM	#2
MountaineerWVa Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Jackson County, W.Va. Posts: 88 Trader Rating: (0)	It looks kinda like an old Ivor Johnson,probaly32 caliber,but if it was it ought to be stamped Ivor Johnson Arms and Cycle Works.

10-17-2006, 07:22 PM	#3
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Trader Rating: (0)	Hmmm, I'll give ya $50 for it.

10-17-2006, 07:25 PM	#4
fred Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NC, USA Posts: 175 Trader Rating: (0)	Any chance it could be a middle eastern copy of a Webley? Looks like a fairly large bore and the top-break action is similar to a Webley. I've heard that blacksmith/gunsmith cottage industries from what is now Pakistan to the Arabian peninsula got very good at this sort of thing.

10-17-2006, 07:25 PM	#5
Johnny_Revolver Gun Liker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,200 Trader Rating: (0)	Isnt it one of those English things, an early Webley, or that other manufacturer, starts with H.. I bet someone knows, most likely Big Dog. Edit, Okay, it does look sorta new.. So yeah I dunno.

10-17-2006, 07:28 PM	#6
MosinDave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 571 Trader Rating: (0)	the design looks very Webley-ish to me. Whatever it is it looks pretty neat!

10-17-2006, 07:33 PM	#7
Zen900 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 686 Trader Rating: (0)	32 S&w

10-18-2006, 06:06 AM	#11
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm gonna post this same question on a few differnt forums and see what they come up with. This has got me interested.

10-18-2006, 12:54 PM	#12
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Trader Rating: (0)	Ok, a couple questions some people asked: What do you have to do to break it? Is it an automatic ejector or manual like an S&W? What markings are on it? Double or single action?

10-18-2006, 02:19 PM	#13
ash Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 932 Trader Rating: (0)	Looks like an H&R.

10-18-2006, 10:11 PM	#15
drinks Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 23 Trader Rating: (0)	I would guess it is a near east copy of a French or Belgian design, possibly Spanish. 1880+ design

10-19-2006, 04:33 AM	#16
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,071 Trader Rating: (0)	The basic design is absolutely early Webley. Where it was made is anybody's guess, unless markings can be decyphered. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

10-20-2006, 01:09 PM	#17
bheiser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Parkville MD Posts: 202 Trader Rating: (0)	bump __________________ Walther PPK,RIA 1911, FN-FAL308 Mossy500:uzi:

10-21-2006, 08:41 AM	#18
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Trader Rating: (0)	One guy had this to say: "The extractor system is similar to the Gasser 11mm revolver. When the Austro-Hugarian military ditched the Gasser, many were bought by Montenegro. Later, their King Nicolas decreed that all adult males had to own a revolver, and there was an immeadiate high demand for handguns of the same type the military was using. So all sorts of copies and clones of the Gasser in various forms and types were made by all sorts of workshops and craftsmen in Montenegro. I'm leaning towards it being one of these clones."

10-21-2006, 05:10 PM	#19
bheiser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Parkville MD Posts: 202 Trader Rating: (0)	interesting..... __________________ Walther PPK,RIA 1911, FN-FAL308 Mossy500:uzi:

10-22-2006, 05:54 AM	#20
Jaymo Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puget Sound Area, Washington State Posts: 64 Trader Rating: (0)	There is no question that it has the recognisable look and shape of the English Webley top break that we often see in .455 caliber but chances are it may be some kind of a clone perhaps from Germany or even an Eastern Bloc Nation. It will be helpful to decifer those markings and maybe even see if the engraving is similar to a certain nation, good luck with your search.