Best Main Battle Rifle of WW2

[Kodiak32]

I was wondering what everyone thought was the best main / standard issue battle rifle of ww2. The standard / main issue rifles I was looking at are the K98 Mauser, Enfield Mark 4, M1 Garand and Mosin Nagant 91/30.

I own all four and honestly I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage with any of them. I would think a well trained solider could perform well with any of the group. I didn't include sub machine guns or automatic rifles, just the basic infantry rifle.

I would have to say the M1 Garand. I know that the enbloc clip has it's disadvantages, like the "ping" sound when empty. But I really think that the average solider with the M1 can lay down more accurate fire at a rapid pace than with the bolt rifles. I also think the M1 has to be the fastest one to reload of the group.

A well trained soldier with an Enfield can put out large volumes of accurate fire as well, but I was looking at the average. The Enfield has the smoothest action of the three bolt guns and the largest mag capacity of all at ten rounds. The enfields pratical rate of fire is surprising close to the M1, but for in close combat I would prefer the M1.

The k98 was a reliable and possibly the most accurate of the group on the average. It's well known that a single sniper or marksman could hold up a large number enemy soldiers. I've read where the average engaement of WW2 was within 300 yards, well within the range of the M1.

The Mosin Nagant 91/30 may have been the fastest rifle of the bunch to produce. The Soviets stuck with the basics of reliability and simplicity. The rifle also proved to be a worthy sniper. The M1 was more costly to produce per unit, but america had the resources and industrial base to support it's production.

The intersting part is that the Enfield, M1 Garand and K98 all made the History Channels " Top Ten Battle Rifles of ALL Time". It might just be a matter of preference.

I have read in different forums where the M1 was discounted as the best due to the following reasons. The clip cannot be topped off while in the rifle, press clip eject or empty the thing. The "ping" sound alerted the enemy that you were empty, ok but I don't know. Can't be used without the clip even one round at a time, my can it must be special.

I love all four, but what do you think?

[Shaun]

The best would have to be our own M1 Garand

[lefty o]

the M1, it opened the door to all future semi/full auto battle rifles. the ping is blown way out of proportion, heck i dont even hear it most of the time from my own rifle.

[texnmidwest]

Best battle rifle by far was the M1 garand.

Not sure who said this I think it was about WW1 but I thought it interesting. When asked about the rifles of the war he replied "The British went to war with a good battle rifle, the Germans went to war with a good hunting rifle and the Americans went to war with a good target rifle."

[blaster]

I vote for the M-1, who is going to hear a ping at 300 yds. in a fire fight?

[Cyrano]

Hey, guys: General George S. Patton Jr., the Old Man of Battle himself, declared that the M-1 Garand was "the best battle implement ever devised." Are YOU going to argue with the man whose troops gained more ground faster, while killing more of the enemy and losing far fewer of their own, than any general in modern history?

The en bloc clip issue is a legitimate concern, and perhaps the only reason the Garand might not rate at No. 1 on the Best Battle Rifle of World War II list. But our troops were not stupid; they put the "liability" of the eight round clip and the p-i-i-n-g ejection sound to good use.

When the Garand appeared in the Pacific, the Japanese were used to fighting American troops whose Springfield rifles had 5 round fixed box magazines. They "knew" that once an American fired his five rounds, there would be a pause while he pulled out a stripper clip and reloaded his rifle. While he was doing that, the enemy would either charge him or take advantage of the momentary slackening of fire to move to another position in relative safety. The Americans figured this out, and evolved the following tactic. They would fire five rounds relatively slowly and pause as if reloading a Springfield. The Japanese would think they were safe and move to where they could be seen, at which point the American, with three rounds remaining in his clip, would shoot them.

And in Europe, the Germans figured out that when they heard that p-i-i-n-g noise, that was when they could move in relative safety, while GI Joe reloaded. However, as noted American troops aren't dumb. They figured out what Jerry was doing, and took to carrying a spent en bloc clip in their pockets. They'd fire a couple or three rounds, then toss the empty clip so it made the p-i-i-n-g. The Germans would move, and the Americans would shoot. The tactic worked enough of the time, especially in heavy cover or at night, to be worth trying on the squad level of combat.

My father fought the Germans in North Africa, Sicily and Europe. I remember hearing him say, "Well, they got that right," when this was mentioned once on The History Channel, so I know the story of the empty clip in Europe is not a fairy tale. And enough Marines have told the "shoot 5 and wait" story in documentaries on the Pacific Campaign that I don't think that one's a myth either.

When The Military Channel did a documentary/survey on The Top Ten Battle Rifles of All Time, the Garand finished in second place, behind only the AK-47. The reason John Garand's creation was beaten by Mikhail Kalashnikov's rifle was the selection criteria established for the evaluation. The AK-47 beat the M-1 on service longevity and volume of production. If memory serves, it was rated slightly ahead of the AK in terms of reliability (the AK was marked down for issues with the detachable magazine). The two were equal in fear factor and innovation. What won the title for the Kalashnikov was the number produced, far more than any other rifle in history, and the fact that the weapon is still in front line service with a large number of armies around the world sixty years after its initial introduction.

[nathangdad]

The Garand was certainly the best at laying down a lot of firepower. However, the question arises as to the accuracy of the firepower based on WW2 training for soldiers who mostly had never fired a rifle.

The Japanese rifle is generally considered to be the strongest action metallugically of WW2.

In trained hands the K98 was extremely accurate.

The Russian rifle was meant to take a lot of abuse and keep firing even though accuracy of rifle and bullet quality was not always where it should have been.

So, there are different ways of looking at things.

Personally, of the rifles in question for me it would be a tie between the Garand and the K98 with a sniper scope. But this is a forum and you will get many viewpoints.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by texnmidwest

Not sure who said this I think it was about WW1 but I thought it interesting. When asked about the rifles of the war he replied "The British went to war with a good battle rifle, the Germans went to war with a good hunting rifle and the Americans went to war with a good target rifle."

There's something to that. In the opening phase of the Battle of Belleau Wood, the Germans were unloading supply wagons with the Marines on a rise 800 yards away. The Germans thought they were safe. The Marines took the Germans under slow, aimed fire and killed or wounded a whole bunch of them. The Germans complained that this just wasn't sporting.

I've sometimes wondered if that is why Belleau Wood was such a hotly contested action - that the Germans had a grudge against the Marines for shooting them while they were not engaged in (to the Germans' mind) warlike activities.

[Orlando]

Hearing the Garand ping in battle is nothing more than a myth. How the heck do you think you could hear a little "ping" with troops firing the Garand, enemy firing thier own weapons, motors, grenades bombs etc? After just a few seconds of battle your hearing would be shot anyway from small arms blast. There were a few guys on another forum that asked Veterans about the "ping" they just laughed when asked the question

[Bravo]

While at the range, I've heard the fabled "ping", but I'm not sure if I'd hear it in combat, or if I'd even be listening for it...

I'd choose the M1. The Ping, in my mind, is nothing. If it is heard in combat, you can use it to your advantage by tricking the enemy.

The only disadvantage to the M1 is that you can't reload a few cartridges, but rather you have to reload the whole bloc. This isn't an issue though, since all of our weapons today use magazines.

The M1 was truly revolutionary in every way.

[NRAJOE]

Enfield No.4

[Kodiak32]

Some very good informational posts here, good points about the "ping sound" and other aspects of M1 Garand.

I can see why NRAJOE selected the Enfield Mark 4, a fine rifle in every respect.

I failed to mention the Ariska, thanks Nathangdad, it might be the most overlooked main battle rifle of WW2. I need one of those..

It's kind of a complex question, but I thought it would be an interesting one to ask.

[ggordon]

The Arisakas might have been strong but all the ones that I examined seemed to be crude junk.

I've read several sources (see the CMP manual) that say that you can top off the en-bloc clip while it's in the M1 Garand.

[Kodiak32]

Thanks ggordon for the topping off enbloc information, if it's in the CMP manual it can be done. I brought up the point based on what I read on other forums about one of the negative aspects of the Garand. I didn't research it because clips could be so easily changed in the M1.

[SilverRun]

Here is how I would rank em (1 Best - 4 not as good) as battle rifles.
1. M1 Garand
2. Enfield Mark 4
3. K98 Mauser
4. Mosin Nagant 91/30

If I were fighting in -30 degree weather on the eastern front, the order may very well reverse! **Just my 2 cents.

[Kodiak32]

That's the same order I had in my mind SilverRun. The hardest part was choosing #2, the ten round mag on the Enfield was the difference for me.

I really like the K98, it hits what I aim at. I just need more practice time with the Enfield, not up to the "Mad Minute" pace yet.