New Krag board! - Page 2

bob · 03-21-2002, 09:39 PM

evening gents, i'm new to thisboard and to krag ownership, just stopped by to say hello and to introduce myself.

Hal Beatty · 03-21-2002, 09:52 PM

Hi Bob, glad you found this place. FNG? Nah, you'll get over it!
Regards,
Hal Beatty

bob · 03-21-2002, 10:05 PM

looks like we are "neighbors"!

Gyrene · 03-22-2002, 12:37 AM

Hal Beatty & bob - I grew up way over in the Eastern part of the state, called Spokane, (Spokane Valley, really) but that was many, many years ago. At that time I used to see my neighbors take their .30-40 Krags out on successful hunting trips.

I had always wanted one, even though none of the neighbors would let me shoot theirs, they said it was too powerful for a little guy. It was a fascinating rifle to me, but barely more powerful than a .30-30. My first hunting trip I used a borrowed .25-35, a rather wimpy, but still a, legitimate deer rifle.

From the time I was about 8 1/2 and my older brother was 11, we used to take my dads' P-17 Remington out into the woods, and shoot at targets we painted on newspaper. We would set them up in front of a very steep dirt hillside, so we knew the bullets would go into the ground, and not take off to parts unknown, (it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out). My dad would never let me shoot it, but my brother and I took it out to shoot one day, and I told him that I would shoot it. He said it would kick the living $#!+ out of me, and it really knocked me around but I was not scared of it.

This past year, I was finally able to get my first .30-40 Krag Jorgensen, on a whim. It was slightly butchered (8 inches of the wood was cut off the muzzle end of the stock, but the metal was retained), and I figured I had better pick it up, or I might never get another chance. Shortly after that, a second one in excellent condition joined it in my captivity, and here we are!

bob · 03-22-2002, 10:42 AM

always good to meet someone from home; i grew up 20 miles south of "the valley"! little town called rockford; our scout troop met in the american legion hall, where krags adorned the walls. that's when the bug bit me but it was just a month ago that i finally found one, a carbine. i've had a lot of guns over the years, but only two that i just had to have and the krag was one. i frequently wonder what happened to the two dozen krags that the legion had.

Hal Beatty · 03-22-2002, 09:26 PM

Bob & Gyrene,
Sounds like the dry side of the state hasn't been able to hang on to either one of you. And here I sit, trying to figure out how to end up over there when I retire!

The Krag is the only firearm that I own multiples of. Three good ones and the remains of a couple junkers that have given up some of their parts so that others might live.
Regards,
Hal Beatty

bob · 03-22-2002, 10:42 PM

Hal/Gyrene-
don't know how Gyrene feels about it, but the "dry" side can get mighty d@#& cold in the winter! we looked at several areas there, since we both have family in the spokane area, but decided the olympic penninsulas' rain shadow was a better place to retire. after all, you gotta shovel snow in dayton/spokane/pullman. and this year, you gotta shovel snow in sequim!
fell into a deal on a 98 carbine in a 99 stock a month ago. it's worn, but still shoots good; i was looking for a deer rifle and i guess i fell into a quasi collectable.
Hal, if you head over that way and need a recommendation on gunshops to while away some hours, lemme know. bob

Gyrene · 03-23-2002, 12:59 AM

Hal Beatty & bob - I remember one winter, January 1948, I walked to Dishman Grade School with a friend, and we stopped at another friends house to pick him up. The guy had some recently hatched chicks, and they were in an incubator in the garage, so he took us out to look at them. They were frozen solid, two of them were leaning against the 100 watt light bulb frozen solid. The thermometer showed -48 and we had a 25 to 35 mph wind blowing. I have no idea what the "Chill Factor" was but it must have been -120 F or so.

When we got to school, it was closed because the heating boiler had frozen and burst. Needless to say no school for a few days. We went to the other guys house and made an excuse, for his mom, to clean the .30-40 Krag that his dad had promised to him when he turned 12. Oh to be back there again!!!

My brother played music in a Country Western Band, (they would call it Country Rock now I think, back when Elvis Presley was being introduced at the Grand Ole Opry Tours as the "Up and Coming Country Western Star" (he played the Spokane Coliseum under that billing about 1954 if I remember correctly)). I know they used to play the Grange Halls around Spokane, Waverly and others, and I would go with them a lot. A couple of Marine friends, the Kruse brothers, if I remember right, were from the Rockford area.

OLD HOME WEEK ? ? ?

bob · 03-23-2002, 11:51 AM

Gyrene/Hal/et al--
Gyrene, sounds like you're a couple years older than me, but i remember that winter, i was about 2 i think, but the one i remember most was '52 when i was in the first grade. bad with a capitol brrrrrr! 68/69 when the amazing missus and i wed was no picnic either. i like to froze to death that april at ft. benning. yes, there were several Kruse families with several spellings around rockford! and i have danced at the waverly grange in the time of my illspent youth! shot lots of magpies and ground squirrels down that way too. Hal, we have a gun show coming up in april in sequim, any chance you'd attend? Gyrene, dunno where in kalifornia you are, but i think driving up for a gun show would be a bit much! last show in port angeles had no krags, many arisakas and some interesting oddements. i actually found my krag in kent while shopping for bullets to load into my 1905 hand ejector 32/20.
anybody tell bill mook about this site?
bob

bob · 03-23-2002, 12:01 PM

i need sources for krag parts pleez! next krag might have to be a "build up" shooter.

Gyrene · 03-23-2002, 07:39 PM

bob - I am near San Jose, California. If I drove to Port Angeles, I would be going quite a ways. I've done that before on a vacation taking the Black Ball Ferry to Victoria, B.C., Canada.

I couldn't buy any guns there, cause the law says I can only buy them in the state where I reside or immediately adjacent states (in this case that means California, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona).

I had reported that the guy fired his .30-40 Krag above 300 in our club match last Saturday, and his actual score was 340. This is posted on our club web site http://www.zouaves.org If you look you can see who (not me). This shows some of our activities past, current and planned for the future.

Thought you and others might like to see that despite the fact that we live in California, we are still much the same, and have a lot of shooters and activities. There are over 266 members currently, with 30 to 40 active (shoot more than 5 or 6 times each year).

Actually this is better suited to another Forum, so I will stop any further comments not specific to .30-40 Krag, weeelll . . .

Hal Beatty · 03-23-2002, 09:19 PM

Bob & Gyrene,
Yeah, the cold winters are about the only thing that makes me a little leery about relocating east of the mountains when I retire. But I grew up in the midwest where the summers are hot and the winters cold, so figure I could probably get used to it again. Just depends on how tired I get of all the rain and too many people (and too many Socialists) on this side of the hill. (Think I'm just about there on all counts!)

I haven't seen Col. Mook show up on this board yet, I think I have his e-mail address around somewhere; maybe I'll invite him in.

As far a Krag parts go, S&S Firearms and Joe DeChristopher are about the best sources I've come across so far. Other than that the WAC show at Puyallup is a good bet, where the occaisional Krag part shows up. But I've tried to stay away from the gunshows for the last couple of years, too busy spending money and time on other projects I guess.
Regards,
Hal Beatty

bob · 03-24-2002, 04:54 PM

Gyrene/Hal--well this becomes even more interesting! i lived in san jose for 10 years, 75-85! worked in burlingame. initially i shot at the old santa teresa range, but when the developers moved in, the county opened a range out off 101. shot some there, but not a lot. used to attend the gun shows at the county fairgrounds on a regular basis and had ALL my guns and knives stolen while living there!
know what you mean about shows Hal; i went to port angeles with 600 bucks tucked into my sock and managed to come home with it, BUT, there was a winchester 218 bee that nearly came home with me, one of the bolt guns, a model 43 i think. well gotta go, son and daughter in law just arrived. take care gents and thanks for the tips on suppliers. bob

stik · 03-24-2002, 07:03 PM

my brother has a springfield 30-40 krag,given to him by my granfather and was wondering whats the easiest way to tell if it is a real carbine or cut down?
thanks

Hal Beatty · 03-24-2002, 07:31 PM

Stik,
First, get the serial number if possible, Frank Mallory at Springfield Research Service has included a listing of all the Krags (rifle & carbine) that he has come across in the National Archives in his latest Krag book. Only a small percent of those actually produced show up, but it's a place to start.

Next, how is the front sight attached? Is the front sight base brazed into a small dovetail in the top of the barrel (real Krag) or is it attached to a band around the end of the barrel (most cut down Krags). Then measure the barrel length. Run a cleaning rod down the barrel til it touches the face of the bolt. A 'real' carbine will measure 22".

Also, look at the front end of the stock. a cutdown rifle stock will have a lightening cut under the barrel that will probably have been filled.

And, what markings are on the receiver? And are there any cartouches on the stock? What markings are on the rear sight and front sight?

That ought to get you started. Get back to us with whatever you can find out. Just be aware that MANY Krag rifles were shortened over the years and that only a relative few carbines were ever produced.

Regards,
Hal Beatty

bob · 03-25-2002, 10:49 AM

stik, i have been researching a 98 carbine and was referred to www.oldguns.com. sorry, i don't know how to post that as a link. go to the site, look at the column on the left and scroll down to "us military manufacturing dates", click and that will take you to a fill-in-the-blocks form which will give you a date of manufacture for your krag. note, i cannot confirm the accuracy of the data, but in my case, it matched other sources. bob

ps: dontcha wish these old guns could talk!

bob · 03-25-2002, 10:49 AM

Hal, does Mr. Mallory have a web site? bob

Hal Beatty · 03-25-2002, 09:41 PM

Springfield Research Service (Frank Mallory) doesn't have a web sight that I know of. Last correspondence I got from him listed his e-mail address as frank@mbz.org and also listed a phone number for a modem (301) 622-2247.

If you send him the serial number you're interested in with a SASE, he'll tell you if that number shows up on any of his records. Then if you want a letter with documentation, "It'll cost ya".

If it's a Krag S/N you've got, I can see if it's listed in his latest book.

Also if it's John Spangler's web sight you're refering to, I think the correct address is www.oldguns.net

Regards,
Hal Beatty

bob · 03-26-2002, 02:46 PM

you're right, oldguns.net. just got an e-mail from a guy w/a nib ruger 44mag for 350 bucks! what to do, what to do! what i really want is a 25 krag, but the 44 is mighty tempting!

duck223 · 03-26-2002, 05:47 PM

I saw a couple of 45-70's on www.collectorsarms.com that were reasonable,a lot cheaper than they have them on www.trapdoorsgalore.com.

03-21-2002, 09:39 PM	#21
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	an fng wanders thru evening gents, i'm new to thisboard and to krag ownership, just stopped by to say hello and to introduce myself.

03-23-2002, 11:51 AM	#29
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	are we talkin krags here or what???? Gyrene/Hal/et al-- Gyrene, sounds like you're a couple years older than me, but i remember that winter, i was about 2 i think, but the one i remember most was '52 when i was in the first grade. bad with a capitol brrrrrr! 68/69 when the amazing missus and i wed was no picnic either. i like to froze to death that april at ft. benning. yes, there were several Kruse families with several spellings around rockford! and i have danced at the waverly grange in the time of my illspent youth! shot lots of magpies and ground squirrels down that way too. Hal, we have a gun show coming up in april in sequim, any chance you'd attend? Gyrene, dunno where in kalifornia you are, but i think driving up for a gun show would be a bit much! last show in port angeles had no krags, many arisakas and some interesting oddements. i actually found my krag in kent while shopping for bullets to load into my 1905 hand ejector 32/20. anybody tell bill mook about this site? bob

03-23-2002, 12:01 PM	#30
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	and lest my feeble brain forget again i need sources for krag parts pleez! next krag might have to be a "build up" shooter.

03-24-2002, 07:03 PM	#34
stik Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: pa Posts: 4	real carbine? my brother has a springfield 30-40 krag,given to him by my granfather and was wondering whats the easiest way to tell if it is a real carbine or cut down? thanks

03-25-2002, 10:49 AM	#36
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	another resource stik, i have been researching a 98 carbine and was referred to www.oldguns.com. sorry, i don't know how to post that as a link. go to the site, look at the column on the left and scroll down to "us military manufacturing dates", click and that will take you to a fill-in-the-blocks form which will give you a date of manufacture for your krag. note, i cannot confirm the accuracy of the data, but in my case, it matched other sources. bob ps: dontcha wish these old guns could talk!

03-21-2002, 09:52 PM	#22
Hal Beatty Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NW Wash. state Posts: 50	Hi Bob, glad you found this place. FNG? Nah, you'll get over it! Regards, Hal Beatty

03-21-2002, 10:05 PM	#23
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	looks like we are "neighbors"!

03-22-2002, 12:37 AM	#24
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	Hal Beatty & bob - I grew up way over in the Eastern part of the state, called Spokane, (Spokane Valley, really) but that was many, many years ago. At that time I used to see my neighbors take their .30-40 Krags out on successful hunting trips. I had always wanted one, even though none of the neighbors would let me shoot theirs, they said it was too powerful for a little guy. It was a fascinating rifle to me, but barely more powerful than a .30-30. My first hunting trip I used a borrowed .25-35, a rather wimpy, but still a, legitimate deer rifle. From the time I was about 8 1/2 and my older brother was 11, we used to take my dads' P-17 Remington out into the woods, and shoot at targets we painted on newspaper. We would set them up in front of a very steep dirt hillside, so we knew the bullets would go into the ground, and not take off to parts unknown, (it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out). My dad would never let me shoot it, but my brother and I took it out to shoot one day, and I told him that I would shoot it. He said it would kick the living $#!+ out of me, and it really knocked me around but I was not scared of it. This past year, I was finally able to get my first .30-40 Krag Jorgensen, on a whim. It was slightly butchered (8 inches of the wood was cut off the muzzle end of the stock, but the metal was retained), and I figured I had better pick it up, or I might never get another chance. Shortly after that, a second one in excellent condition joined it in my captivity, and here we are!

03-22-2002, 10:42 AM	#25
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	always good to meet someone from home; i grew up 20 miles south of "the valley"! little town called rockford; our scout troop met in the american legion hall, where krags adorned the walls. that's when the bug bit me but it was just a month ago that i finally found one, a carbine. i've had a lot of guns over the years, but only two that i just had to have and the krag was one. i frequently wonder what happened to the two dozen krags that the legion had.

03-22-2002, 09:26 PM	#26
Hal Beatty Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NW Wash. state Posts: 50	Bob & Gyrene, Sounds like the dry side of the state hasn't been able to hang on to either one of you. And here I sit, trying to figure out how to end up over there when I retire! The Krag is the only firearm that I own multiples of. Three good ones and the remains of a couple junkers that have given up some of their parts so that others might live. Regards, Hal Beatty

03-22-2002, 10:42 PM	#27
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	Hal/Gyrene- don't know how Gyrene feels about it, but the "dry" side can get mighty d@#& cold in the winter! we looked at several areas there, since we both have family in the spokane area, but decided the olympic penninsulas' rain shadow was a better place to retire. after all, you gotta shovel snow in dayton/spokane/pullman. and this year, you gotta shovel snow in sequim! fell into a deal on a 98 carbine in a 99 stock a month ago. it's worn, but still shoots good; i was looking for a deer rifle and i guess i fell into a quasi collectable. Hal, if you head over that way and need a recommendation on gunshops to while away some hours, lemme know. bob

03-23-2002, 12:59 AM	#28
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	Hal Beatty & bob - I remember one winter, January 1948, I walked to Dishman Grade School with a friend, and we stopped at another friends house to pick him up. The guy had some recently hatched chicks, and they were in an incubator in the garage, so he took us out to look at them. They were frozen solid, two of them were leaning against the 100 watt light bulb frozen solid. The thermometer showed -48 and we had a 25 to 35 mph wind blowing. I have no idea what the "Chill Factor" was but it must have been -120 F or so. When we got to school, it was closed because the heating boiler had frozen and burst. Needless to say no school for a few days. We went to the other guys house and made an excuse, for his mom, to clean the .30-40 Krag that his dad had promised to him when he turned 12. Oh to be back there again!!! My brother played music in a Country Western Band, (they would call it Country Rock now I think, back when Elvis Presley was being introduced at the Grand Ole Opry Tours as the "Up and Coming Country Western Star" (he played the Spokane Coliseum under that billing about 1954 if I remember correctly)). I know they used to play the Grange Halls around Spokane, Waverly and others, and I would go with them a lot. A couple of Marine friends, the Kruse brothers, if I remember right, were from the Rockford area. OLD HOME WEEK ? ? ?

03-23-2002, 07:39 PM	#31
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	bob - I am near San Jose, California. If I drove to Port Angeles, I would be going quite a ways. I've done that before on a vacation taking the Black Ball Ferry to Victoria, B.C., Canada. I couldn't buy any guns there, cause the law says I can only buy them in the state where I reside or immediately adjacent states (in this case that means California, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona). I had reported that the guy fired his .30-40 Krag above 300 in our club match last Saturday, and his actual score was 340. This is posted on our club web site http://www.zouaves.org If you look you can see who (not me). This shows some of our activities past, current and planned for the future. Thought you and others might like to see that despite the fact that we live in California, we are still much the same, and have a lot of shooters and activities. There are over 266 members currently, with 30 to 40 active (shoot more than 5 or 6 times each year). Actually this is better suited to another Forum, so I will stop any further comments not specific to .30-40 Krag, weeelll . . .

03-23-2002, 09:19 PM	#32
Hal Beatty Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NW Wash. state Posts: 50	Bob & Gyrene, Yeah, the cold winters are about the only thing that makes me a little leery about relocating east of the mountains when I retire. But I grew up in the midwest where the summers are hot and the winters cold, so figure I could probably get used to it again. Just depends on how tired I get of all the rain and too many people (and too many Socialists) on this side of the hill. (Think I'm just about there on all counts!) I haven't seen Col. Mook show up on this board yet, I think I have his e-mail address around somewhere; maybe I'll invite him in. As far a Krag parts go, S&S Firearms and Joe DeChristopher are about the best sources I've come across so far. Other than that the WAC show at Puyallup is a good bet, where the occaisional Krag part shows up. But I've tried to stay away from the gunshows for the last couple of years, too busy spending money and time on other projects I guess. Regards, Hal Beatty

03-24-2002, 04:54 PM	#33
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	Gyrene/Hal--well this becomes even more interesting! i lived in san jose for 10 years, 75-85! worked in burlingame. initially i shot at the old santa teresa range, but when the developers moved in, the county opened a range out off 101. shot some there, but not a lot. used to attend the gun shows at the county fairgrounds on a regular basis and had ALL my guns and knives stolen while living there! know what you mean about shows Hal; i went to port angeles with 600 bucks tucked into my sock and managed to come home with it, BUT, there was a winchester 218 bee that nearly came home with me, one of the bolt guns, a model 43 i think. well gotta go, son and daughter in law just arrived. take care gents and thanks for the tips on suppliers. bob

03-24-2002, 07:31 PM	#35
Hal Beatty Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NW Wash. state Posts: 50	Stik, First, get the serial number if possible, Frank Mallory at Springfield Research Service has included a listing of all the Krags (rifle & carbine) that he has come across in the National Archives in his latest Krag book. Only a small percent of those actually produced show up, but it's a place to start. Next, how is the front sight attached? Is the front sight base brazed into a small dovetail in the top of the barrel (real Krag) or is it attached to a band around the end of the barrel (most cut down Krags). Then measure the barrel length. Run a cleaning rod down the barrel til it touches the face of the bolt. A 'real' carbine will measure 22". Also, look at the front end of the stock. a cutdown rifle stock will have a lightening cut under the barrel that will probably have been filled. And, what markings are on the receiver? And are there any cartouches on the stock? What markings are on the rear sight and front sight? That ought to get you started. Get back to us with whatever you can find out. Just be aware that MANY Krag rifles were shortened over the years and that only a relative few carbines were ever produced. Regards, Hal Beatty

03-25-2002, 10:49 AM	#37
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	and i forgot to ask------- Hal, does Mr. Mallory have a web site? bob

03-25-2002, 09:41 PM	#38
Hal Beatty Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NW Wash. state Posts: 50	Springfield Research Service (Frank Mallory) doesn't have a web sight that I know of. Last correspondence I got from him listed his e-mail address as frank@mbz.org and also listed a phone number for a modem (301) 622-2247. If you send him the serial number you're interested in with a SASE, he'll tell you if that number shows up on any of his records. Then if you want a letter with documentation, "It'll cost ya". If it's a Krag S/N you've got, I can see if it's listed in his latest book. Also if it's John Spangler's web sight you're refering to, I think the correct address is www.oldguns.net Regards, Hal Beatty

03-26-2002, 02:46 PM	#39
bob Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: olympic penninsula Posts: 29	ooooops! you're right, oldguns.net. just got an e-mail from a guy w/a nib ruger 44mag for 350 bucks! what to do, what to do! what i really want is a 25 krag, but the 44 is mighty tempting!

03-26-2002, 05:47 PM	#40
duck223 Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the confused state of mo. Posts: 78	I saw a couple of 45-70's on www.collectorsarms.com that were reasonable,a lot cheaper than they have them on www.trapdoorsgalore.com.