Martini Cadet

herbert rogers · 10-30-2009, 10:14 AM

Hello Dennis

The 222 Rimmed Super cases are generally a little on the hard end of the scale and to a degree not always concentric on the necks which does tends to increase to incidence of neck splitting. I have found reaming the necks and then anneal the neck and shoulder area is always beneficial to longer case life. The newer Bertram brass is a little better though not by much. I tend to cut my loads back slightly in the interest of case life plus the inherent weak Martini extraction and the problems with higher pressure during the hot summer period.

If I was building up a 222 or similar cartridge on the martini action then I would seriously look at incorporating a rimless extractor. I am considering a project on the Westley Richards and may even go down to 17 caliber.

I am not sure where you are located but if in Oz then there are a few gunsmiths who do the Martini in rimless. If you are in Oz and looking for a Greener, then there is one (Action only) for sale on the following site and located in Victoria. The price is a little steep but cheaper than most complete Cadets. Look under “Categories’” then “What’s New)

http://www.firearmsales.com.au/products/whatsnew/

Cheers

Herb Rogers

Old Hilly · 10-31-2009, 04:35 AM

Thanks for the info Herb. I had considered going to a rimless .222 round but then I thought I might as well just find some new brass and stay with what I have. That Greener is a little out of my price range at the moment. I suspect that if I bide my time, something will turn up.
What process do you use to anneal your case necks? I have heard of many strange systems, including dipping the case in molten lead or solder. I always thought solder would stick to clean brass but perhaps I am wrong?
Dennis.

herbert rogers · 10-31-2009, 10:43 PM

Hello Dennis,

I neck anneal my cases in molten bullet casting metal before resizing and with the spent primer left in to form an air pocket. I have made up a holder for 25 cases out of a piece of flat aluminium with holes drilled plus a wooden handle and looks an egg flip. Inside and outside case neck and shoulder area are cleaned with very fine steel wool then dipped in Lanotech oil and left to dry slightly. For the next part of the process I move outdoors to avoid the inevitable smoke. Load them into the holder and immerse the neck and half the shoulder for six to eight seconds then let them air cool standing on their rims. When cool check that no lead is adhering to the cased and if ok I run then through the case tumbler for an hour or so.

Starting with new cases and after the first firing I go through the processes to uniform the case length, rim thickness, flash hole diameter and neck reaming. For neck reaming I use either the now obsolete Lee Target Loader kit with the facility to inside neck ream and then check outside neck evenness on the Lyman outside neck reamer. Generally I have found this extends case life and avoids or reduces the incidence of case neck splitting.

Bertram took over the old Super manufacturing equipment and since then the rim dimensions are more consistent. In my Cadet 222 Rimmed the rims on the old Super cases sometimes were over diameter or had thick rims that would not chamber.

Cheers

Herb Rogers

Old Hilly · 11-01-2009, 01:31 AM

Thanks for the info Herb. I had thought about using one of those hot-air paint stripper type guns for case annealing, perhaps using some sort of carousel system that would take the case through a blast of hot air for a certain length of time and then drop the case onto something soft so that it could cool slowly. Having worked as an underground cable jointer for a few years I have no real desire to sniff anymore lead fumes, I probably have had more than my fair share already.
Thanks again,
Dennis.

herbert rogers · 11-01-2009, 08:41 AM

Hi Dennis,

I get the shivers too when handling lead. I spent sixteen years as a letterpress printer working mainly with type metal or linotype. The company sent us for medical checks every two years for a health check and blood test. We were aware of the consequences and luckily the managers made us aware of the need to wash hands before meals.

I don’t use the Cadet 222 Rimmed a lot these days, maybe a box or two a year and yes she is fun to shoot.

Cheers

Herb Rogers

Old Hilly · 11-02-2009, 02:22 AM

A Brno "Fox" in .222 Rem. came into the shop today, "Set" trigger and bridge mount for a scope and in good condition. I must say, I was tempted! Best to stick with the Martini though, the Brno is out of my budget. I even worry about some of the reloading we do. All the projectiles are lead, not jacketed.
Thanks again,
Dennis.

ke4sky · 11-18-2009, 09:56 AM

I have a BSA Cadet in .357 which is one of my favorite toys. My rifle was drilled and tapped for Unertl scope blocks and I have a straight-tube 6X small game scope on it. I use mine for testing .38 Special wadcutter target ammo. Best ammo shoots about an inch at 50 yards.

10-30-2009, 10:14 AM	#61
herbert rogers Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 13	Hello Dennis The 222 Rimmed Super cases are generally a little on the hard end of the scale and to a degree not always concentric on the necks which does tends to increase to incidence of neck splitting. I have found reaming the necks and then anneal the neck and shoulder area is always beneficial to longer case life. The newer Bertram brass is a little better though not by much. I tend to cut my loads back slightly in the interest of case life plus the inherent weak Martini extraction and the problems with higher pressure during the hot summer period. If I was building up a 222 or similar cartridge on the martini action then I would seriously look at incorporating a rimless extractor. I am considering a project on the Westley Richards and may even go down to 17 caliber. I am not sure where you are located but if in Oz then there are a few gunsmiths who do the Martini in rimless. If you are in Oz and looking for a Greener, then there is one (Action only) for sale on the following site and located in Victoria. The price is a little steep but cheaper than most complete Cadets. Look under “Categories’” then “What’s New) http://www.firearmsales.com.au/products/whatsnew/ Cheers Herb Rogers

10-31-2009, 04:35 AM	#62
Old Hilly Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 10	Thanks for the info Herb. I had considered going to a rimless .222 round but then I thought I might as well just find some new brass and stay with what I have. That Greener is a little out of my price range at the moment. I suspect that if I bide my time, something will turn up. What process do you use to anneal your case necks? I have heard of many strange systems, including dipping the case in molten lead or solder. I always thought solder would stick to clean brass but perhaps I am wrong? Dennis.

10-31-2009, 10:43 PM	#63
herbert rogers Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 13	Hello Dennis, I neck anneal my cases in molten bullet casting metal before resizing and with the spent primer left in to form an air pocket. I have made up a holder for 25 cases out of a piece of flat aluminium with holes drilled plus a wooden handle and looks an egg flip. Inside and outside case neck and shoulder area are cleaned with very fine steel wool then dipped in Lanotech oil and left to dry slightly. For the next part of the process I move outdoors to avoid the inevitable smoke. Load them into the holder and immerse the neck and half the shoulder for six to eight seconds then let them air cool standing on their rims. When cool check that no lead is adhering to the cased and if ok I run then through the case tumbler for an hour or so. Starting with new cases and after the first firing I go through the processes to uniform the case length, rim thickness, flash hole diameter and neck reaming. For neck reaming I use either the now obsolete Lee Target Loader kit with the facility to inside neck ream and then check outside neck evenness on the Lyman outside neck reamer. Generally I have found this extends case life and avoids or reduces the incidence of case neck splitting. Bertram took over the old Super manufacturing equipment and since then the rim dimensions are more consistent. In my Cadet 222 Rimmed the rims on the old Super cases sometimes were over diameter or had thick rims that would not chamber. Cheers Herb Rogers

11-01-2009, 01:31 AM	#64
Old Hilly Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 10	Thanks for the info Herb. I had thought about using one of those hot-air paint stripper type guns for case annealing, perhaps using some sort of carousel system that would take the case through a blast of hot air for a certain length of time and then drop the case onto something soft so that it could cool slowly. Having worked as an underground cable jointer for a few years I have no real desire to sniff anymore lead fumes, I probably have had more than my fair share already. Thanks again, Dennis.

11-01-2009, 08:41 AM	#65
herbert rogers Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 13	Hi Dennis, I get the shivers too when handling lead. I spent sixteen years as a letterpress printer working mainly with type metal or linotype. The company sent us for medical checks every two years for a health check and blood test. We were aware of the consequences and luckily the managers made us aware of the need to wash hands before meals. I don’t use the Cadet 222 Rimmed a lot these days, maybe a box or two a year and yes she is fun to shoot. Cheers Herb Rogers

11-02-2009, 02:22 AM	#66
Old Hilly Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 10	A Brno "Fox" in .222 Rem. came into the shop today, "Set" trigger and bridge mount for a scope and in good condition. I must say, I was tempted! Best to stick with the Martini though, the Brno is out of my budget. I even worry about some of the reloading we do. All the projectiles are lead, not jacketed. Thanks again, Dennis.

11-18-2009, 09:56 AM	#67
ke4sky Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 104	I have a BSA Cadet in .357 which is one of my favorite toys. My rifle was drilled and tapped for Unertl scope blocks and I have a straight-tube 6X small game scope on it. I use mine for testing .38 Special wadcutter target ammo. Best ammo shoots about an inch at 50 yards.