Revolver rifles revisited... I think I've got it!

BattleRifleG3 · 11-12-2003, 11:55 PM

The main inhibitor of revolver rifles is flash or even lead from the front of the cylinder harming a shooter's forearm. I started drawing up a design for a top breaking rifle firing from the lower cylinder, which I still think would be kind of cool, but I just recently had a major "duh!", an epiphany of how easy it could be to make a safe revolver rifle.

Just design a forearm to pivot or slide ahead of the action and swing up around the cylinder, covering it, protecting the shooter. There would be some metal shield inside to be cleaned of soot and lead periodically. Then I thought "Oh, this is just making it more complicated" Then it hit me. Just make the cylinder swing out with the motion of the forearm. It makes so much sense I can't believe no one's ever done it yet. Maybe I've found the secret that someone's gonna now steal and patent and never remember a college bum known as BattleRifleG3. Or maybe I'm on crack.

What do you think?

Big Dog · 11-13-2003, 04:39 AM

One word - "NAGANT"!

Check out how the M1895 Nagant revolver seals the cylinder and barrel - problem solved.

11-13-2003, 05:59 AM

I like Frankengun's idea :target:

BattleRifleG3 · 11-13-2003, 09:22 AM

Any site that explains what you're saying about the Nagant?

PAPA G · 11-13-2003, 11:33 AM

wait till he see's a harmonica gun

BattleRifleG3 · 11-13-2003, 02:01 PM

Harmonica gun? Are we talkin a volley gun?

Anyway, here's a concept drawing:

It's a Taurus 14" 44 Rem Mag revolver with a barrel extension to make it legal as a rifle, a forend that covers the front of the cylinder and protects the hand from muzzle flash, and a buttstock that attaches to the grip frame as would a set of grips.

BattleRifleG3 · 11-13-2003, 02:05 PM

One thing that attracts me to these is that it would be legal to hunt with in a state where semi autos are illegal for hunting. Would also not have to worry about cycling reliability issues of a semi-auto. And a way to aim powerful brushbuster revolver cartridges better than with a pistol.

NRAJOE · 11-13-2003, 02:43 PM

Thats pretty darn slick! :right:

Need to move that handguard further up though...

PAPA G · 11-13-2003, 03:10 PM

harmonica gun was an early attempt at producing a repeater it used a flat horizontal magazine that resembled a harmonica.

didja ever see the Colt revolving 10 ga. shot gun???

Big Dog · 11-13-2003, 03:27 PM

Maybe have the handguard on a sliding rail attached to the underlug - have it slide forward to access the cylinder. Be a bit more elegant than folding down.

BattleRifleG3 · 11-13-2003, 04:29 PM

Thought about that too, maybe. If clearing the cylinder and opening it could be accomplished in the same action that would be great.

Funny, I had an idea that kind of sounds like the harmonica gun. Basically an unlimited magazine for a double action.

No, I never saw the Colt revolving 10ga, but I did see a 20ga revolving shotgun on Security Arms. I think somethin like this. I'd love to have one, but wouldn't it be counted as a Destructive Device like the Street Sweeper? Pretty stupid, yeah.

BattleRifleG3 · 09-22-2007, 12:00 AM

I've thought a bit about this topic lately, and would love to revisit it if anyone cares to discuss.

I've been specifically thinking about 3 shot revolving shotguns and 5 shot revolving rifles in the likes of 45-70, 375 Win, and the X-Frame calibers of 500 and 460 S&W.

Still thinking of ways to shield the shooter from gap blast. Only concern I still have is if it was enclosed and then built up pressure inside.

Based on my design attempts, it looks like having fewer cylinders actually makes it harder to cycle, because the cylinder has to rotate a greater fraction of a turn. But I wouldn't want a revolving shotgun over three rounds due to size and hunting regs.

Big Dog · 09-22-2007, 05:36 AM

I still think the Nagant revolver's system of the cylinder moving forward to seal the chamberface against the barrel would solve your problem of trash blast. The Nagant has a small block that pushes the cylinder forward as the hammer is cocked. It's not a complicated system at all.
Might be worth it to you to pick up a Nagant and try it. Great fun to shoot and plink with too.

The worst problem with the early revolver rifles was their use of the Cap&Ball system, making the possibility of chain firing very real! Not a worry with cartridge arms.

BattleRifleG3 · 09-23-2007, 09:14 AM

Thanks for describing the Nagant's system in better detail. I was wondering how that worked.

SilverRun · 09-23-2007, 10:17 AM

I think part of the Nagant system was the cartridge as well. It is a weird looking casing that helps to seal the gap between the cylinder and the barrel. I am not sure how well the gap would be sealed without the case. I don't own one - so I can't say for sure. Just bringing out ideas.
Good Luck!

BattleRifleG3 · 09-24-2007, 08:38 PM

I think you have an excellent observation there. It would explain why the only modern revolver longarm I've seen is a shotgun, whose shells of a given length would seal the cylinder the same way before being rotated. This would restrict you to a given length of shell for a given shotgun gauge though. As such, the wisest gauge choices would be 28, 16, and 10ga.

So I suppose two different designs would be in order - a Nagant style system for 28, 16, and 10ga shotshells, and an enclosed system for rifles. And the enclosed system, which would be harder to load, would coincidentally have a higher capacity (5 instead of 3 rd).

Gimme a few decades and some of these ideas may become reality.

bored2bhere · 09-26-2007, 06:58 AM

nice idea but then again whos got the liscence to convert a standard firearm? u cant convert a handgun to a carbine can right???????? g3 seem 2 no this stuff about regulations tell us what u know

Rave · 09-26-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bored2bhere

nice idea but then again whos got the liscence to convert a standard firearm? u cant convert a handgun to a carbine can right???????? g3 seem 2 no this stuff about regulations tell us what u know

You can't convert a rifle to a hand gun,but you can convert a handgun to a rifle,so sayeth the fed.

BattleRifleG3 · 09-26-2007, 11:32 AM

Correct. Plus, you can build any firearm from scratch that's legal to buy, just not for resale. Doing manufacturing or conversion work professionally when a frame/receiver is involved requires a license. Manufacturing a kit for the individual owner or a licensed gunsmith does not as long as the kit itself wouldnt include a frame/receiver.
Designing it is 100% legal, as would be selling the design to someone who is licensed to make them or working as an engineer for them under contract.

bored2bhere · 09-26-2007, 03:46 PM

thats a good idea g3 now all u got 2 do is sell that idea to Ruger or someone and get a little change in the pocket

11-12-2003, 11:55 PM	#1
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	Revolver rifles revisited... I think I've got it! The main inhibitor of revolver rifles is flash or even lead from the front of the cylinder harming a shooter's forearm. I started drawing up a design for a top breaking rifle firing from the lower cylinder, which I still think would be kind of cool, but I just recently had a major "duh!", an epiphany of how easy it could be to make a safe revolver rifle. Just design a forearm to pivot or slide ahead of the action and swing up around the cylinder, covering it, protecting the shooter. There would be some metal shield inside to be cleaned of soot and lead periodically. Then I thought "Oh, this is just making it more complicated" Then it hit me. Just make the cylinder swing out with the motion of the forearm. It makes so much sense I can't believe no one's ever done it yet. Maybe I've found the secret that someone's gonna now steal and patent and never remember a college bum known as BattleRifleG3. Or maybe I'm on crack. What do you think? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

11-13-2003, 04:39 AM	#2
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 9,479	One word - "NAGANT"! Check out how the M1895 Nagant revolver seals the cylinder and barrel - problem solved. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

11-13-2003, 09:22 AM	#4
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	Any site that explains what you're saying about the Nagant? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

11-13-2003, 02:01 PM	#6
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	Harmonica gun? Are we talkin a volley gun? Anyway, here's a concept drawing: It's a Taurus 14" 44 Rem Mag revolver with a barrel extension to make it legal as a rifle, a forend that covers the front of the cylinder and protects the hand from muzzle flash, and a buttstock that attaches to the grip frame as would a set of grips. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf Last edited by BattleRifleG3; 11-13-2003 at 02:08 PM.

11-13-2003, 02:05 PM	#7
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	One thing that attracts me to these is that it would be legal to hunt with in a state where semi autos are illegal for hunting. Would also not have to worry about cycling reliability issues of a semi-auto. And a way to aim powerful brushbuster revolver cartridges better than with a pistol. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

11-13-2003, 05:59 AM	#3
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	I like Frankengun's idea :target:

11-13-2003, 11:33 AM	#5
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	wait till he see's a harmonica gun

11-13-2003, 02:43 PM	#8
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 18,662 Images: 5	Thats pretty darn slick! :right: Need to move that handguard further up though... __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

11-13-2003, 03:10 PM	#9
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	harmonica gun was an early attempt at producing a repeater it used a flat horizontal magazine that resembled a harmonica. didja ever see the Colt revolving 10 ga. shot gun???

11-13-2003, 03:27 PM	#10
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 9,479	Neat idea! Maybe have the handguard on a sliding rail attached to the underlug - have it slide forward to access the cylinder. Be a bit more elegant than folding down. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

09-22-2007, 12:00 AM	#12
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	I've thought a bit about this topic lately, and would love to revisit it if anyone cares to discuss. I've been specifically thinking about 3 shot revolving shotguns and 5 shot revolving rifles in the likes of 45-70, 375 Win, and the X-Frame calibers of 500 and 460 S&W. Still thinking of ways to shield the shooter from gap blast. Only concern I still have is if it was enclosed and then built up pressure inside. Based on my design attempts, it looks like having fewer cylinders actually makes it harder to cycle, because the cylinder has to rotate a greater fraction of a turn. But I wouldn't want a revolving shotgun over three rounds due to size and hunting regs. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

09-22-2007, 05:36 AM	#13
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 9,479	I still think the Nagant revolver's system of the cylinder moving forward to seal the chamberface against the barrel would solve your problem of trash blast. The Nagant has a small block that pushes the cylinder forward as the hammer is cocked. It's not a complicated system at all. Might be worth it to you to pick up a Nagant and try it. Great fun to shoot and plink with too. The worst problem with the early revolver rifles was their use of the Cap&Ball system, making the possibility of chain firing very real! Not a worry with cartridge arms. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

09-23-2007, 09:14 AM	#14
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	Thanks for describing the Nagant's system in better detail. I was wondering how that worked. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

09-23-2007, 10:17 AM	#15
SilverRun Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AL Posts: 1,591	I think part of the Nagant system was the cartridge as well. It is a weird looking casing that helps to seal the gap between the cylinder and the barrel. I am not sure how well the gap would be sealed without the case. I don't own one - so I can't say for sure. Just bringing out ideas. Good Luck!

09-24-2007, 08:38 PM	#16
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	I think you have an excellent observation there. It would explain why the only modern revolver longarm I've seen is a shotgun, whose shells of a given length would seal the cylinder the same way before being rotated. This would restrict you to a given length of shell for a given shotgun gauge though. As such, the wisest gauge choices would be 28, 16, and 10ga. So I suppose two different designs would be in order - a Nagant style system for 28, 16, and 10ga shotshells, and an enclosed system for rifles. And the enclosed system, which would be harder to load, would coincidentally have a higher capacity (5 instead of 3 rd). Gimme a few decades and some of these ideas may become reality. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

09-26-2007, 06:58 AM	#17
bored2bhere Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: mississippi Posts: 395 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 2	nice idea but then again whos got the liscence to convert a standard firearm? u cant convert a handgun to a carbine can right???????? g3 seem 2 no this stuff about regulations tell us what u know __________________ "Only the dead have seen the end of war"-Apolos

09-26-2007, 11:32 AM	#19
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,397 Images: 13	Correct. Plus, you can build any firearm from scratch that's legal to buy, just not for resale. Doing manufacturing or conversion work professionally when a frame/receiver is involved requires a license. Manufacturing a kit for the individual owner or a licensed gunsmith does not as long as the kit itself wouldnt include a frame/receiver. Designing it is 100% legal, as would be selling the design to someone who is licensed to make them or working as an engineer for them under contract. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf Last edited by BattleRifleG3; 09-26-2007 at 04:09 PM.

09-26-2007, 03:46 PM	#20
bored2bhere Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: mississippi Posts: 395 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 2	thats a good idea g3 now all u got 2 do is sell that idea to Ruger or someone and get a little change in the pocket __________________ "Only the dead have seen the end of war"-Apolos

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