If you'll forgive my firearm ignorance, I have 4 questions that could use answering.

I ordered my questions in what I believe to be the least-to-most stupid sounding.

1) Occasionally I hear of a gun that is "pre-ban". It refers to some ban in the '90's, and these guns are supposed to be more valuable because the ban doesn't apply to them. What ban are they talking about, and what are it's restrictions?

2) What is the difference between rimfire and centerfire?

3) What is the definition of a "carbine" firearm? If I had to guess using context, it seems to mean something to do with the modern shell, instead of the old powder and ball.

4) To fire a single action revolver, one has to only pull back the hammer, and not manually rotate the cylinder. Correct?

[Doglips]

Ill take a wack at this....Klause will most likely provide better...more enganeering type answers...

Pre-Ban are made prior to the 1994 ban on hi capacity magazines so were designed to use them...have flash surpressers (rifles) and other such items that were baned by the 1994 act....some people are willing to pay more for a pre-ban just as some people will pay more for any collectable...coin, stamps ect.

2. If you look at a cartrige...shotgun shell ect....on the bottom...a center fire the primer is in the center...and can be reloaded by removeing to old primer..and then following the instruction in reloading manuals. Rim Fires (22 LR and the new 17 HRM are the most common...and only commercialy avilable ones I can think of) the primer compound is in the outside "rim" of the cartrige...it can not be reloaded.

3 the basic answer is carbines are shorter than "full" leanght rifles....kinda like cars you got large (realy long) rifles and Carbines would be a compact car so to speak....it has nothing to do with cap/ball or modern...some black powder carbines...some modern ones....has to do with over all size of the rifle (I realy cant think of the set X inches long answer).

4. True.

[oneastrix]

You're not asking stupid questions at all Scartissue......and we're glad you are asking us. We're happy to help. Doglips has given you good information.

[Big Dog]

The rifle vs. carbine question is still hotly debated by firearms experts - there are different ways of considering it. Some count just barrel length - The Mosin-Nagant carbine fires the same caliber ammo as the longer rifle. Some insist the true carbine must use a smaller, less powerful round - the SKS is in this category as is the M1 Carbine. The AK47 and M16 could be considered carbines by that definition - but today they are "battle rifles" or "assault rifles" - which term opens up another can of worms. It can be pretty confusing.

On the "pre-ban" issue, some guns (notably the SKS) also have another condition of pre-89-ban or post-89-ban. The problem is, it's not based on when the gun was made, but on when it was imported into this country. A gun made in the sixties can still be postban if it was not imported til after the ban took effect. The onus of proof is on the owner - if you can't prove your rifle was imported before the bans, then forget that folding stock and thirty round banana clip.

Whooee, I'll bet this thread get's a lot of mileage! Lot's of room for discussion/argument. Have at it, guys!

[Mick]

I may be wrong, If I am some one will be sure to set me straight, I thought a single action revolver was one where you only have to pull the trigger and it'll go, whereas a double needs the hammer to be pulled back to cock before pulling the trigger, (or is it the other way round) ( I can't remember the stalagtite-stalagmite thing real well either)

Originally posted by Mick
I may be wrong, If I am some one will be sure to set me straight, I thought a single action revolver was one where you only have to pull the trigger and it'll go, whereas a double needs the hammer to be pulled back to cock before pulling the trigger, (or is it the other way round) ( I can't remember the stalagtite-stalagmite thing real well either)

Double-action is like semi-auto, where you just blow off rounds as fast as you pull the trigger. Single-action requires some manual operation to take place between shots. Single shot requires each round to be loaded individually, before each shot.

[lefty o]

single action whether a semi or revolver= pull trigger and it does one thing, drops the hammer. double action= pulling trigger will cock the hammer and drop it(2 actions).

Originally posted by lefty o
single action whether a semi or revolver= pull trigger and it does one thing, drops the hammer. double action= pulling trigger will cock the hammer and drop it(2 actions).

:right:

Said it better than I did.

[Mick]

sweet, thanks fellas, I knew it was something like that.

[7mmag6]

In vietnam we had the car-15, that was a shortened version of the m-16, I know that was replaced by the m-4 in 1997, heres a good place to see it http://world.guns.ru/assault/as50-e.htm
I also remember these were issued to the rear echelon

[7mmag6]

also pre ban means no production of recievers or other parts in the US, and no way to fix a bayonet, my pre ban keng poly tech has a bolt to fix a bayonet, later ones are welded to the barrel, stupid rules, post ban rifles have a percentage of parts manufactured in the US

[BattleRifleG3]

Here's another way to describe the ban issue:
2 bans:
1. The '89 ban affects imported semi-auto rifles only and is subject to arbitrary reinterpretation by BATF. This ban did away with many classic imported firearms, like the HK-91, 93 and 94, the Steyr AUG, AK variants with folding stocks, pistol grips, and bayinets, AK derivatives like the Valmets and Galils, and many others. In 98, Clinton used the power granted in this law to ban everything using a hi-cap mag from entering the country. This also applies to such arms assembled out of foreign parts, however, for it to count as a foreign gun, it must have 11 or more parts from a list that includes receiver, barrel, fire control, furniture, and other major firearm components. You can bring the count down by replacing such parts with US made ones. That is what Century Arms and others do to give you HK, FAL, and AK derivatives with pistol grips that use hi-cap mags. They either buy parts and fill in the gaps with their own parts, or take complete guns and replace enough parts with their own to stay legal. You can also take a MAK-90 with a thumbhole stock and replace enough parts with US made ones to use a pistol grip.

2. The '94 ban applies to all semi auto pistols, shotguns, and rifles with a detachable mag only, regardless of US parts. It allows one out of a set of restricted characteristics to stay legal. With the AR-15, this is the pistol grip. With the M-14, it's a flash suppressor. Buy a Mini-14 and you can add a flash suppressor or pistol grip stock at your discretion, but not both. The list is different for pistol, rifle, and shotgun. This law also banned production of mags over 10 rounds.

Anything that was legally here before the bans can stay here, keep the features it had, before the bans, be repaired as necessary, and be bought and sold freely. Such an item is of special value, hence the term "pre-ban", and the higher prices.

[7mmag6]

thanks battle rifle g3 nice, thats why my first stop is always g&g, you guys are the best, sheez great knowledge and great friends:nod:

[BattleRifleG3]

More details on the '94 Ban:
A semi rifle WITH a detachable magazine may have only ONE of the following:
1. Pistol grip
2. Flash hider or barrel threaded for such
3. Folding Stock
4. Bayonet Lug
5. Grenade launcher

This is why pre-ban AR-15s have a flash hider, bayo lug, and sometimes a folding stock, while post bans have only the Pistol grip. M14 derivatives that used to have bayonet lugs now have only flash hiders.


A semi pistol may have ONE of the following:
1. Threaded barrel
2. Barrel shroud/forearm
3. Weight of over some number, I think 52oz unloaded
4. Magazine that is not inside the grip
5. Being a semi-auto version of a full auto arm (not sure, but this one may have been struck down in court)

Notice the threaded barrel and shroud on a Tec-9 compared to the short, bare barrel of the AB-10, the same gun technologically. Its feature is the mag outside of the grip.


A semi shotgun with over 5rd capacity may have ONE of the following:
1. Pistol grip
2. Folding stock
3. Fixed mag over 5 rounds
4. Detachable mag

Notice how some semi shotguns have long tubes and standard stock, others have short tubes and pistol grip stock, others have a detachale mag, but none have more than one of the above.

[BattleRifleG3]

ATF's list of 20 parts of which guns with certain characteristics may have only 10 or less imported are:

1. Receiver
2. Barrel
3. Barrel attachment
4. Barrel extension
5. Gas Piston
6. Operating Rod
7. Trunion
8. Trigger housing
9. Trigger
10. Hammer
11. Sear
12. Disconnector
13. Bolt
14. Bolt Carrier
15. Magazine body
16. Mag floorplate
17. Mag follower
18. Buttstock
19. Handguard
20. Pistol grip