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Old 04-28-2003, 10:29 AM   #1
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Angry Teachers aide suspended for wearing cross to school

GLEN CAMPBELL, Pa. — A teacher's aide is challenging her one-year suspension without pay for wearing a cross necklace, which officials say violates a Pennsylvania Public School Code prohibition against teachers wearing religious garb.

"I got suspended April 8, 2003, for wearing a cross to work and not being willing to either remove it or tuck it in," said Brenda Nichol, 43, of Indiana County.

Officials at ARIN Intermediate Unit 28 wouldn't comment on Nichol's case specifically, but said their employee handbook is based on the school code and prohibits all employees from wearing religious garb. ARIN supplies teachers aides and other services to 11 school districts and two technical schools in Armstrong and Indiana counties.

Nichol acknowledges she was told of the prohibition as far back as 1997, and was warned twice since March that wearing the necklace was cause for suspension. Under the school code, she could be fired for a second offense.

"I think the public needs to know that there is a code out there that is against our freedom," Nichol said. She has enlisted the help of the American Center for Law and Justice, a Virginia-based public-interest law firm founded in 1990 by Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson. The group plans, but has not yet filed, a federal court lawsuit.

"We get cases about teachers' rights to religious expression in school all the time, whether they can have a Bible on their desk or religious artifacts in their office," said Vincent McCarthy, senior counsel at the ACLJ's office in New Milford, Conn. "What usually happens is we send a demand letter and the case is resolved. They rarely if ever go to court."

"Where the line is drawn is when what the teacher wears or has with them ... has reached the point where you could say it becomes an endorsement of a particular religion by the school," McCarthy said. He doesn't believe that happened in Nichol's case.

But ARIN's executive director, Robert H. Goad Jr., believes the school's policy is reasonable and based on firm legal ground.

Goad said the law is meant to protect people of all faiths from being offended. The same law would prohibit a teacher from wearing a pendant or emblem related to witchcraft, for example.

"How would the people of our community deal with people wearing such things in a public school classroom?" Goad said.

The state's religious garb prohibition was passed in 1895 and incorporated into the school code when it was established in 1949. It has since been upheld by the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, Goad said.

In that case, a Muslim teacher from Philadelphia -- backed by the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission -- wanted to wear traditional garb including a head scarf and long, loose dress. The EEOC said that would have been a "reasonable accommodation" of her religious faith, but the appeals court disagreed in 1990, saying "the preservation of religious neutrality [in public schools] is a compelling state interest."

A similar law in Oregon was upheld by that state's Supreme Court in 1986 for the same reasons, according to The First Amendment Center, a constitutional rights group that is part of the Freedom Forum.

Still, that group -- in "A Teacher's Guide to Religion in the Public Schools" -- suggests teachers probably still have the right "to wear non-obtrusive jewelry, such as a cross or Star of David. But teachers should not wear clothing with a proselytizing message (e.g., a 'Jesus Saves' T-shirt)."

McCarthy thinks the whole question is ridiculous considering the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, signed into law in 2000 by then-President Clinton. Among other things, the law also protects the right of inmates to wear religious garb -- like Muslim skull caps -- in prisons that receive federal money.

"Under [that law] prisoners have more freedom to express themselves by their garb than school teachers," McCarthy said.

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Old 04-28-2003, 10:31 AM   #2
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I'll bet you a box of bullets that if it was a pentagram they would have said it was OK ..or feared violating her rights....the nut cases are in charge of the aslyum.
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:35 AM   #3
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Yeah, if it was some dark pagan thing they wouldn't want to violate her right to express herself!!!
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:53 AM   #4
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What do you think woulda happened if it were the star of David?

Having been raised in Pennsylvania I can almost guarantee the JDL (Jewish Defense League) would've been all over the issue.

One line of defense for her is that the Amish are allowed to wear clothing clearly symbolizing their religion. I realize the Amish have their own schools but they are still somewhat governed by the Pennsylvania School Commission.
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Old 04-28-2003, 07:21 PM   #5
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She violated a known school policy that she was warned about...twice. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
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Old 04-28-2003, 07:43 PM   #6
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Well as probly the one with the most diverse(or confused) religous beliefs on this board....I dont see the big deal about her wearing a cross....its HER belife and she has the right to express it. Not like she was beating kids with a bible.....I find it sad that Christians seem to get the short end of the diversity stick....Like someone said if it had been a star of david you can bet my Jewish brothers/sisters would have raised such a fuss..and lawsuits that the school would trembel in fear at the sight of this teacher....the same for Pagen symbols.....the ACLU would have been up in arms.
But display a Christian...pro American....hetrosexual...anything and your fair game. Yet if this same teacher showed up wearing traditional muslim attire...a pentagra neckless and a Support Gay rights bumper sticker on her butt the school would call it diversity and not say a word.
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Old 04-28-2003, 08:30 PM   #7
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She broke the rules. Period. The rules may be subject to scrutiny after the fact. But she was warned about the rules and she decided to break them a third time.

I'm tired of hearing about the poor, victimized christians in the US. Christians dwarf all other religions combined in this country. Christians have always been, and will always be, the religious giant in the US. To constantly claim victimization is ludicrous. Christians in Saudi Arabia, yeah, they've got a right to claim unfairness.

All you who claim that other religious emblems would be tolerated do so from a standpoint of having not one shred of evidence to back up your claims. You have no idea how another religious emblem would be treated, but you'd like to think they'd be allowed so that your victimization is realized. After reading the article, it seems like they are strict on all religious icons.
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Old 04-28-2003, 08:55 PM   #8
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Actualy Lenny as both a Jew and a Pagan I from time to time wear the Star of david, Thor's Hammer or a Pentagram....Comeing from Social work were most people were Christians I occasionaly found a Jesus pamplet on my desk but otherwise no one ever said anything about the pendents (1 person thought Thor's hammer was an upside down cross and asked)....Its called FREEDOM OF SPEACH!!!!! Teacher's did not give up their constatutional rights just because they teach....an ILLEGAL rule is NOT a rule....violating someones right to free speach...is wrong!!!! be it a Christians or Pagans.
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Old 04-29-2003, 07:26 PM   #9
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Can you use your freedom of speech to shout fire in a crowded theater? Can you use your freedom of speech to threaten the life of a supreme court judge?

Give me a break. She broke the rules. Now she has to pay.
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Old 04-29-2003, 08:21 PM   #10
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Lenny and Doglips; you are both right. As long as she doesn't push it then it should be tolerated. However look at the case of the Muslim lady in Florida that wanted her driver's license picture taken with her face covered. What happens when a muslim lady is arrested? Do we not photograph her? Freedom of religion/speech does not guarantee you special treatment!
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Old 04-29-2003, 11:36 PM   #11
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Take off that pentagram necklace Lenny!!!!
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Old 04-30-2003, 06:54 AM   #12
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NRAJOE will love this story...worked at a runnaway shelter ... came to work one night..bunch of teenagers had drawn star of david all of their cloths..selfs ect with a permanit marker...one of the kids swore he was a high priest of a local satanic temple....I spent a hour looking for a rock alboum with the pentagram to prove to them that the MORAN must have flunked counting....me and the other staff got a good chuckel out of the whole thing
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Old 04-30-2003, 08:59 AM   #13
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just because a 100 year old law doesn't make it right. i do not know the lawmakers reasoning behind this, but i suspect it had anti-Catholic roots.

these people need to lighten up!!! a persons beliefs including wearing religious items is a personal matter, that the state has no business interfering with. and just because the courts side with the state does not make it right.

the secularist are the minority but they have their rights, same should apply to the religious that they have their rights. some one wheres a cross, star, head of a goat, what ever is their business not mine; and i find no offense in that.
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Old 04-30-2003, 12:26 PM   #14
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I can't believe Lenny is claiming that wearing a cross is the same as threatening another human's life. They aren't even close.
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Old 04-30-2003, 03:09 PM   #15
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Geech,
Where do you draw the line for the freedom of speech? There's a law in the books that prevents anyone from displaying religious items. But the first ammendment provides for free speech. Which one wins?

There'sa law in the books that makes it illegal to threaten the life of another person, but the first ammendment protects free speech. Which one wins?

Sometimes lines have to be drawn, or else rules and regulations slowly erode if incrimental violations are allowed. If you start making exceptions, its hard to stop.
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Old 04-30-2003, 03:25 PM   #16
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Quote:      
Originally posted by Doglips
NRAJOE will love this story...worked at a runnaway shelter ... came to work one night..bunch of teenagers had drawn star of david all of their cloths..selfs ect with a permanit marker...one of the kids swore he was a high priest of a local satanic temple....I spent a hour looking for a rock alboum with the pentagram to prove to them that the MORAN must have flunked counting....me and the other staff got a good chuckel out of the whole thing
What a twit!!!
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Old 04-30-2003, 07:54 PM   #17
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OK Lenny; I have got to say PLEASE>>>>>>>> You are really trying to stretch this aren't you. Doesn't the preamble say something about inalienable rights and life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness? Freedom of speech was meant as redress to the government; not to say what ever you want. You have the right to speak, not to be heard. You have the right to say you don't like someone, but not threaten them and deprive them of L,L and POH by living in fear of you.

Separation of church and state is to allow one to freely worship as they wish; not to ban all religious inferences on public grounds. Wearing a cross necklace does not infringe on anyone's right not to worship. Making children read the bible in class does.
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Old 04-30-2003, 09:52 PM   #18
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Here's my two cents worth...pure and simple common sense tells me that a person should be able to wear a necklace with a cross wherever he/she wants to go.

Sure...I'm aware of the courts rulings but they're so screwed up that they even require a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) to warn about the dangers of water and common salt.

Come on...this is pure B.S. Give me a break on this being an infringment on someone else's rights. With these kinds of laws it causes a degree of disrespect by otherwise law abiding citizens.

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Old 04-30-2003, 11:37 PM   #19
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Ok. Someone draw the line. Someone give me seomthing concrete here. Can someone wear a 1" cross? Is that acceptable? What about a 3" Cross? What about a 7" cross? What about a 12" cross? If someone can wear a cross, can they wear a a 1"severed goats head emblem? What about a 12" severed goats head emblem? Can they wear a marijuana emblem? Hey, i could tell them that I worship marijuana. who are they dictate to me who and what I worship?

Common sense is very objective. As soon as you start allowing tiny exceptions, they become huge exceptions. Its just like gun control laws. Look where we are now. This did not happen overnight. It was a gradual process. Small exceptions add up. They drew a line and stuck to their laws and rules. I applaud them.
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Old 04-30-2003, 11:45 PM   #20
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No where in our Constitution does it say anything about seperation of church and state. They wanted everyone to be able to worship as they saw fit.
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