Stay away from our women, no porn! {:^(

NRAJOE · 06-09-2003, 01:56 PM

Selling America: U.S. units try to win Iraqi hearts and minds

In-Depth Coverage

By Jim Krane

Sheik Abdul Jabar leaned forward in his chair, stroked his beard and delivered a warning to the U.S. Army Psychological Operations soldier seated across from him.

"We don't want anyone to touch our women," the Shiite cleric said as his companions in turbans and headscarves nodded. Then came other grievances, including a vague warning about U.S. soldiers displaying pornography.

"You talk to that soldier's boss, and immediately something will be done. I guarantee it," said Sgt. Eric Viburs, of the Army's 346th Psychological Operations Company, based in Columbus, Ohio. The tension eased, Marlboros and Kufa Colas were passed around, and soon Viburs was practically family.

The Americans aren't merely interested in the sheik's friendship. They want to enlist him as a mouthpiece in the poor Shiite Muslim neighborhood where he is a leader.

Across Iraq, dozens of three-person "psyops" teams are pursuing similar missions: befriending community leaders and using them to boost Iraqis' opinions of the United States and distribute its messages.

The Army's Psychological Operations force in Iraq is the largest in U.S. history, with 11 companies and almost 1,000 psyops personnel in the country or in support roles in the United States, said Lt. Col. Glenn Ayers, commander of the 9th Psychological Operations Battalion based in Fort Bragg, N.C.

Their mission is to persuade Iraqis to do the Pentagon's bidding: report unexploded munitions, vacate a building, support U.S. troops, give up.

It's a mission as old as war itself.

"You're basically trying to sell a product, and the product is 'Please surrender at your earliest possible convenience,"' said John Pike, a military analyst with GlobalSecurity.org, a consulting group based in Arlington, Va.

During the war, psyops detachments helped engineer the surrender and desertion of thousands of Iraqi soldiers.

They dropped leaflets describing the proper way to hand over weapons. They carried a mobile radio station that told Iraqis the U.S. invasion force was on its way.

On the ground, the teams carry Sony MiniDisc players packed with bizarre sounds: commands in Arabic, helicopter and tank noises and sonic shrieks to clear crowds. One unit in southern Iraq deceived the Iraqi military by blaring recorded sounds of advancing tanks, Ayers said.

"We got the Iraqis to look in one direction when the real tanks came in the other direction," said Ayers.

Since the war's end, the psyops mission has changed to a "safety and stabilization" message. Teams roam Baghdad asking Iraqis about their daily problems and their opinions of the progress made under the U.S. occupation.

Information Radio, one of the U.S.-led coalition's three radio stations, broadcasts 24 hours a day. It warns Iraqis to watch for unexploded munitions, reports on moves to create a new government, explains food distribution efforts and carries other U.S. messages.

The job is similar - but tougher - than the marketing of, say, Coca-Cola, Ayers says.

"Cola is a product you already want to buy. Coke just has to convince you to buy its brand," Ayers said. "(Iraqis) don't want to buy our product. But we still have to sell it to them."

Like marketers, psyops soldiers study their target audiences.

They use groups of Iraqi prisoners who evaluate the message, often crafted by reservists who work in sales or marketing in civilian jobs. Psyops soldiers take courses in Arabic language and culture. They're comfortable in Iraqi crowds and homes.

In civilian life, Maj. Allen McCormick of West Chester, Ohio, is a marketing executive for Procter & Gamble. He devises pitches to persuade American teens to buy Pringles, Cover Girl and Scope. Now he tries to persuade Iraqi teens to embrace democracy and their American overseers.

Sometimes it's difficult to tell where the psychological operations begin and end.

"I don't tell them I'm psyop," said Sgt. Grey Wettstein of Ashtabula, Ohio, whose head is shaven and whose body is covered in tattoos. "They'll either think I'm into brain washing or I'm a psychologist."

There are three types of psyops missions.

White ops are true messages where the source is known. Gray ops are accurate, but the source is hidden. In a form of gray operation, one Baghdad weekly prints articles supplied by the military, most of which don't appear to come from a U.S. or military source. In exchange, the U.S. buys and distributes 70,000 of the newspapers.

Black ops are false rumors. The Army is prohibited from launching them. But that's not to say they don't exist.

Before the war, some Western media carried reports that, in retrospect, resemble black ops. One was that the United States might wreck Iraqi communications with a so-called electromagnetic pulse weapon. It never happened. In the second, a Kurdish group claimed Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz had defected. Aziz appeared on TV to disprove the story.

If the reports were engineered, the military says it had nothing to do with them.

"A lot of the stuff we don't deny," Wettstein said, "because it helps the situation at the time."

---

AP Business Writer Meg Richards in New York contributed to this report.

Big Dog · 06-09-2003, 02:54 PM

Y'all ever seen those Iracky wimmin? Whooee - our boys won't be tempted, I garontee!

practical · 06-09-2003, 03:03 PM

I dunno, depends on where they're from. I've seen some mighty scary women in this great nation of ours.

7mmag6 · 06-09-2003, 08:43 PM

ive heard the Iraqi men keep thier women vieled because they can grow a better mustache

Oxford · 06-09-2003, 10:05 PM

...and their underarm hair is braided.

:nod:

NRAJOE · 06-09-2003, 10:06 PM

So is their..um...er...ah....

Oxford · 06-09-2003, 10:10 PM

Joe, I know you're not tongue tied. Spit it out clearly.

:nod:

7mmag6 · 06-09-2003, 11:29 PM

none the less id still do em, had to edit this i have standards these days, and mrs 7mmag operates an ak very well, but those horny 19 year old gi"s will nail anything that moves

Big Dog · 06-10-2003, 04:53 AM

Yeah, maybe the Iraqis should put those robes on their camels!
I had a couple Navy shipmates who would date the fattest, ugliest girls they could find - they called it "Shamu Hunting".

One of them told me "Hey, fat girls need loving too!"

BattleRifleG3 · 06-10-2003, 11:47 AM

Seriously guys, it's really not too much to ask for us not to go after their women and post pornography. Think about what you'd want done or not done for your kids.

NRAJOE · 06-10-2003, 01:30 PM

Have you been in the service BRG3? Chasing women and looking at girlie books is a fact of life in the service...grow up!

Dennis · 06-10-2003, 02:00 PM

The Iraqi's Want to stay in the 7th century
There has been plenty of Porno in Iraq for years
Alcohol has been plentiful also.
Iraq has been the "Sin City" of the Arab world for decades.
Some Iman has gotten a little attention thats all.

BattleRifleG3 · 06-10-2003, 03:40 PM

What the guys do on their own is a different story. But in another country they need to respect the people there. Of all the things to fight over in that part of the worls, chasing local women and publicly displaying pornography are high up on the pointless scale.

True on porn and alchohol being there before. Notice that this is a Shiite leader and Saddam's regime was Suni. Shiites are much more strict. They were oppressed under Saddam and now they want things to be more their way. I wonder how this'll all turn out.

NRAJOE · 06-10-2003, 09:24 PM

Their idea of "porn" is a woman showing her face or ankle anyways...they flip over bikini photos! Pinup photos have always been a Military fact of life, and I wouldn't have it anyother way!

Big Dog · 06-11-2003, 06:52 AM

The troops have long been told not to "mix it up" with the local women - for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the spread of STD's. In the seventies, we were even told not to display any "American" symbols, like a US flag T-shirt, while out in the country there. Some guys will flaunt the rules, and hopefully the ship or base can transfer them elsewhere before the locals get 'em.

Still, when a young randy trooper or sailor has been cooped up for several months, he will go looking for some "action".

Generally the indiginous women are willing, too. As a young sailor in Mombasa, Kenya, I remember the . . . uh . . . "Ladies" as being quite aggressive in their pursuit of the American Dollar.
Seeing how things have gone elsewhere when we have a military presence, I expect much the same in the Middle East - despite the religious strictures. "Prayers don't put beans in the belly" - to paraphrase a literary character.

alan c. · 06-11-2003, 09:55 AM

BRG-3 I have to agree with you. Your profile says it all.

7mmag6 · 06-13-2003, 01:19 AM

sounds like a boring war to me "woke up this morning mighty sore all i had was a saigon whore" go devil dogs

06-09-2003, 01:56 PM	#1
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,014 Trader Rating: (0)	Stay away from our women, no porn! {:^( Selling America: U.S. units try to win Iraqi hearts and minds In-Depth Coverage By Jim Krane Sheik Abdul Jabar leaned forward in his chair, stroked his beard and delivered a warning to the U.S. Army Psychological Operations soldier seated across from him. "We don't want anyone to touch our women," the Shiite cleric said as his companions in turbans and headscarves nodded. Then came other grievances, including a vague warning about U.S. soldiers displaying pornography. "You talk to that soldier's boss, and immediately something will be done. I guarantee it," said Sgt. Eric Viburs, of the Army's 346th Psychological Operations Company, based in Columbus, Ohio. The tension eased, Marlboros and Kufa Colas were passed around, and soon Viburs was practically family. The Americans aren't merely interested in the sheik's friendship. They want to enlist him as a mouthpiece in the poor Shiite Muslim neighborhood where he is a leader. Across Iraq, dozens of three-person "psyops" teams are pursuing similar missions: befriending community leaders and using them to boost Iraqis' opinions of the United States and distribute its messages. The Army's Psychological Operations force in Iraq is the largest in U.S. history, with 11 companies and almost 1,000 psyops personnel in the country or in support roles in the United States, said Lt. Col. Glenn Ayers, commander of the 9th Psychological Operations Battalion based in Fort Bragg, N.C. Their mission is to persuade Iraqis to do the Pentagon's bidding: report unexploded munitions, vacate a building, support U.S. troops, give up. It's a mission as old as war itself. "You're basically trying to sell a product, and the product is 'Please surrender at your earliest possible convenience,"' said John Pike, a military analyst with GlobalSecurity.org, a consulting group based in Arlington, Va. During the war, psyops detachments helped engineer the surrender and desertion of thousands of Iraqi soldiers. They dropped leaflets describing the proper way to hand over weapons. They carried a mobile radio station that told Iraqis the U.S. invasion force was on its way. On the ground, the teams carry Sony MiniDisc players packed with bizarre sounds: commands in Arabic, helicopter and tank noises and sonic shrieks to clear crowds. One unit in southern Iraq deceived the Iraqi military by blaring recorded sounds of advancing tanks, Ayers said. "We got the Iraqis to look in one direction when the real tanks came in the other direction," said Ayers. Since the war's end, the psyops mission has changed to a "safety and stabilization" message. Teams roam Baghdad asking Iraqis about their daily problems and their opinions of the progress made under the U.S. occupation. Information Radio, one of the U.S.-led coalition's three radio stations, broadcasts 24 hours a day. It warns Iraqis to watch for unexploded munitions, reports on moves to create a new government, explains food distribution efforts and carries other U.S. messages. The job is similar - but tougher - than the marketing of, say, Coca-Cola, Ayers says. "Cola is a product you already want to buy. Coke just has to convince you to buy its brand," Ayers said. "(Iraqis) don't want to buy our product. But we still have to sell it to them." Like marketers, psyops soldiers study their target audiences. They use groups of Iraqi prisoners who evaluate the message, often crafted by reservists who work in sales or marketing in civilian jobs. Psyops soldiers take courses in Arabic language and culture. They're comfortable in Iraqi crowds and homes. In civilian life, Maj. Allen McCormick of West Chester, Ohio, is a marketing executive for Procter & Gamble. He devises pitches to persuade American teens to buy Pringles, Cover Girl and Scope. Now he tries to persuade Iraqi teens to embrace democracy and their American overseers. Sometimes it's difficult to tell where the psychological operations begin and end. "I don't tell them I'm psyop," said Sgt. Grey Wettstein of Ashtabula, Ohio, whose head is shaven and whose body is covered in tattoos. "They'll either think I'm into brain washing or I'm a psychologist." There are three types of psyops missions. White ops are true messages where the source is known. Gray ops are accurate, but the source is hidden. In a form of gray operation, one Baghdad weekly prints articles supplied by the military, most of which don't appear to come from a U.S. or military source. In exchange, the U.S. buys and distributes 70,000 of the newspapers. Black ops are false rumors. The Army is prohibited from launching them. But that's not to say they don't exist. Before the war, some Western media carried reports that, in retrospect, resemble black ops. One was that the United States might wreck Iraqi communications with a so-called electromagnetic pulse weapon. It never happened. In the second, a Kurdish group claimed Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz had defected. Aziz appeared on TV to disprove the story. If the reports were engineered, the military says it had nothing to do with them. "A lot of the stuff we don't deny," Wettstein said, "because it helps the situation at the time." --- AP Business Writer Meg Richards in New York contributed to this report. __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

06-09-2003, 02:54 PM	#2
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,067 Trader Rating: (0)	Y'all ever seen those Iracky wimmin? Whooee - our boys won't be tempted, I garontee! __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

06-09-2003, 03:03 PM	#3
practical Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA/Casper, WY Posts: 736 Trader Rating: (0)	I dunno, depends on where they're from. I've seen some mighty scary women in this great nation of ours. __________________ Eric "The secret to life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made"

06-09-2003, 10:05 PM	#5
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 12,981 Trader Rating: (0)	...and their underarm hair is braided. :nod: __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

06-09-2003, 10:06 PM	#6
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,014 Trader Rating: (0)	So is their..um...er...ah.... __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

06-09-2003, 08:43 PM	#4
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Trader Rating: (0)	ive heard the Iraqi men keep thier women vieled because they can grow a better mustache

06-09-2003, 10:10 PM	#7
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 12,981 Trader Rating: (0)	Joe, I know you're not tongue tied. Spit it out clearly. :nod: __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

06-09-2003, 11:29 PM	#8
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Trader Rating: (0)	none the less id still do em, had to edit this i have standards these days, and mrs 7mmag operates an ak very well, but those horny 19 year old gi"s will nail anything that moves Last edited by 7mmag6; 06-09-2003 at 11:33 PM.

06-10-2003, 04:53 AM	#9
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,067 Trader Rating: (0)	Yeah, maybe the Iraqis should put those robes on their camels! I had a couple Navy shipmates who would date the fattest, ugliest girls they could find - they called it "Shamu Hunting". One of them told me "Hey, fat girls need loving too!" __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

06-10-2003, 11:47 AM	#10
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Seriously guys, it's really not too much to ask for us not to go after their women and post pornography. Think about what you'd want done or not done for your kids. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

06-10-2003, 01:30 PM	#11
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,014 Trader Rating: (0)	Have you been in the service BRG3? Chasing women and looking at girlie books is a fact of life in the service...grow up! __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

06-10-2003, 02:00 PM	#12
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,876 Trader Rating: (0)	The Iraqi's Want to stay in the 7th century There has been plenty of Porno in Iraq for years Alcohol has been plentiful also. Iraq has been the "Sin City" of the Arab world for decades. Some Iman has gotten a little attention thats all. __________________ Submitted with respect to all

06-10-2003, 03:40 PM	#13
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	What the guys do on their own is a different story. But in another country they need to respect the people there. Of all the things to fight over in that part of the worls, chasing local women and publicly displaying pornography are high up on the pointless scale. True on porn and alchohol being there before. Notice that this is a Shiite leader and Saddam's regime was Suni. Shiites are much more strict. They were oppressed under Saddam and now they want things to be more their way. I wonder how this'll all turn out. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

06-10-2003, 09:24 PM	#14
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,014 Trader Rating: (0)	Their idea of "porn" is a woman showing her face or ankle anyways...they flip over bikini photos! Pinup photos have always been a Military fact of life, and I wouldn't have it anyother way! __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

06-11-2003, 06:52 AM	#15
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,067 Trader Rating: (0)	The troops have long been told not to "mix it up" with the local women - for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the spread of STD's. In the seventies, we were even told not to display any "American" symbols, like a US flag T-shirt, while out in the country there. Some guys will flaunt the rules, and hopefully the ship or base can transfer them elsewhere before the locals get 'em. Still, when a young randy trooper or sailor has been cooped up for several months, he will go looking for some "action". Generally the indiginous women are willing, too. As a young sailor in Mombasa, Kenya, I remember the . . . uh . . . "Ladies" as being quite aggressive in their pursuit of the American Dollar. Seeing how things have gone elsewhere when we have a military presence, I expect much the same in the Middle East - despite the religious strictures. "Prayers don't put beans in the belly" - to paraphrase a literary character. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables. Last edited by Big Dog; 06-11-2003 at 10:41 AM.

06-11-2003, 09:55 AM	#16
alan c. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pasadena,Tejas - also known as Texas Posts: 3,757 Trader Rating: (0)	BRG-3 I have to agree with you. Your profile says it all. __________________ God Bless. From Tejas -- formerly known as Texas.

06-13-2003, 01:19 AM	#17
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Trader Rating: (0)	sounds like a boring war to me "woke up this morning mighty sore all i had was a saigon whore" go devil dogs