patriot act

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Well put shaun! But, the possibility of that happening is slim to none. Of course, it is possible I'll wake up in the morning an be the new Czar of Russia but, it's not very likely. I think that some of the responders have too much trust in the beast! What gives you people the idea that the beast won't be interested in what you do? They said the same thing about hoover and look what a criminal he was! Even the tiny-est(sp.?) effort to get around the bill of rights is TOO MUCH! I forget who it was who said something like: "Those who will give up some freedom to feel safer don't deserve it"---something like that. Those of you who believe that ashcroft is our buddy and like that need to get some help. He's just a power hungry ego maniac who will stop at nothing to disrobe us of our rights!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Dale]

Besides my wife there is only one person I trust....me, myself and I.

I don't give a dayum if some think that's paranoid.

The only good watch dog I ever had was one that never trusted anyone.......yepper.....fer sure!

And if everyone could be trusted, especially the government, then the Constitution and the Bill of Rights would never have seemed important or needed to our founding fathers.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Yes, i must agree Dale. Just because you're paranoid do'nt mean they are'nt out to get you! Don't know who said that but, it sure fits here!:nod:

Dennis your story sounds like BS to me. First off what is this guy doing with women that are involved with drug issues that get federal attention??? People that have nothing to do with drugs rarely keep company of those that do. Sounds fishy...
Secondly how can they convict him if they don't have one shred of evidence against him??? Sounds fishy...
Thirdly, even if he did nothing wrong with regards to drug dealing maybe it was his lifestyle that led him to trouble. Most of you bible readers here know that screwing around like that is a no-no. Maybe that's God'd way of telling him to knock it off.

Regardless, the whole story has a lot of wholes and doesn't stand up on its own...

[PAPA G]

than why plea on a lesser charge??? if i was in that situation, you better believe i'd be proclaiming my innocence.

[Rave]

Dennis,you really summed it up,and all those agreeing with you are to be commended also.
I heard someone use the old Demo. PC word that always comes out when they cannot baffle us with BS...spewing! Yup,if you have something to say that they don't agree with you are not making a statement,you are SPEWING!Guess that's kind of like opening a soda pop after it's been shaken and the foam spews out,your statement means about as much to them.
Oh well,it's more or less a free country to speak your peace so I think we can all spew a bit before they come after us.
No the question to be posed is who are they? They are the gumment employees that have sold their souls and will murder their fellow citizens for money,used to be calle d assassions.
But some folks figure,just like the folks with the pc weapons,"as long as they don't take mine it's OK.
As long as it's your neighbors family murdered and not your own it's OK!
I am not very impressed with those folks.Heard it all before,BS is BS no matter how it is served!:nod:

[Shaun]

I found out today from the post office that they now have the right to inspect all documents, digital media and magnetic media that is sent through the mail -- the local postmaster this morning explained that the Patriot act gave them this right to inspect the documents. What business is it of theirs to inspect the a document I am sending, absolutley none.

[Lord Shrike]

Rufus the quote was "they that trade freedom for saftey deserve neither" and it was Benejamin Franklin. While I find many of these stories disturbing I don't see any connection to the patriot act. These all seem to be in regards to laws involving the war on drugs (war on personal freedom) and the many of the what I consider to be unconstitutional gun laws in this nation. We have had these for decades. I don't agree with them either but what do the have to do with the patriot act. As for third parties hey thats fine and dandy but I think you need to realize that building a party up to the levels needed to make a actual difference will take time. You need to start small on the local levels. Win some seats on town boards and city councils, than maybey some mayoral spots, than a few years later go after state legislature seats, than tackle a few governorships, a few years after that go after congressional seats and once you have a foothold there than it makes sense to go after the presidency. In the meantime I would suggest that we don't throw the baby out with the bath water and let the dems regain there hold on the white house and congress. Now that a hole from chicago can sit there and rot for all eternity for all I care he was a alquaada sympathisor and offered to build a dirty bomb for them. As for the post office stuff I will have to research that. If its true I agree thats something that is wrong with the patriot act. I never said I agree with all of it. I think there are things in it that should be cut and other things that we need to watch closely and keep sunsets on. That being said however there are also alot of good common sense laws in the patriot act that are helping us make America more secure from terroism. We are in a war and in a war the rules need to bent now and than in order to win the war. Trust there are many examples of this throughout our history. Lets not kill a whole bill that has done us alot of good things because there are some things we don't like. Again I have yet to see one case of abuse concerning the patriot act so is it really that bad?

[wes]

The Patriot Act is no more about terrorism than the drug war is about drugs. So you say it's alright for the Government to throw you in jail, and never charge you, because THEY decided you may be a terrorist? Will it still be ok when they decide that YOU are a terrorist? Maybe just because you own guns? And don't give me that crap about you have nothing to worry about because you haven't done anything wrong. All that matters is what the Feds want to say you MAY have done.

[Lord Shrike]

If this was the case and it was occurring to innocent people all over the country you don't think there would be a huge outcry? The only US citizen I know of being held by the powers of the patriot act is that idiot out of Chicago. They annoucned his arrest and why. They made no secret about it. He had connections with Alquada we are at war with Alquada there are different rules that apply when dealing with prisoners of war. Namely they don't get trials unless they have committed war crimes. This individual was classified a enemy combatant and is hence a POW. He doesn't get released until we deem the conflict to be over with.

[Dennis]

Lenny If you come out to seattle You can talk to all of us that knew him
I am shure that I havent told ..this guys story as well as it needs to be told
Thats my fault blame me for that
he took a deal that he was told would get him out with time served so he could get his life going again. they went back on the agreement and he sits in prison still.
it can happen to any body
the belief people have , That I once had, in our justice system is gone forever.
Cops really can lie they really can steal I have witnessed both on more than one ocassion.
I think that if someone, anyone wants to bring charges up on another person
And it is found that the charges where false THE ACCUSER should have to Serve the time in prison.that the defendant would have recieved.
Think about that for a minute.
Suddenly the bullchit would stop.
ya dont charge a person with a crime unless you are willing to risk what you are seeking. for your self
How many domestic violence cases would disappear?
The new favorite "child abuse" or kidnapping from one parent to another.
suddenly every prosacutor and cop would have to be willing to be Very right
Now there isnt hardly Any punishment for fileing a false police report for a civilian.
And NOTHING for a LEO that brings in bad cases or trumped up cases
Chicken dropping cases.
Same for a prosacutor.
What hapends to a DA that seeks to convict a defendant and they get aquitted?
Nothing nothing at all.......
Mean while the poor sot that went through this has spent All his energy and Money
Defending himself what does the former defendant get, An apology?
not even that.
So if the punishment would be equal............they would only go after someone that they could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt where guilty.
Thats what we are trying to do ........isint it?
It's just an Idea I had.
As far as that story I would be happy to talk to you about it in person it is hard to describe this type of thing efficiently over the internet. I dony type good enough.
OK?

[Lord Shrike]

Using your logic than would you put Marsha Clark in prison for life for prosecuting OJ Simpson?

[Dennis]

Absolutly right
It would have made the people that went after OJ Do it right or leave it alone.
Thats what they are supposed to do, isint it?
That doesnt happen very often any more.
does it?
There are so many Stupid prosacutions that are based on "chicken Droppings"

Why do they plead cases?

Because they cant get the cases through the system fast enough
So if you make them actualy have to Work at prosacuting you they go for the worst possible punishment.
Punishment that is so far beyond what the situation calls for (Like a year in jail for yelling at someone)
The whole thing has becomed geared to makeing the least work for the prosacutor
guilt and innocence are secondary conciderations.
or even less than that.
Then the police use the threat of "manipulating" the system so they cause the defendant More punishment, useing this threat to coerce the defendant in to confessing,
And some Do, trying to avoid being more violated by the system.
In recient times,
The whole thing seems geared to getting more people in the system
Since privatation of the prison system the more prisioners the more money
So now it is a business, BIG business.
So...........what does that mean?
It becomes harder and harder to believe that the courts and the police are being
"fair"
The last great Safety net in this Whole system is the jury
Thank God for jurys they are Usually not contaminated by the system.
This whole "system" is in place for one thing.
To try to avoid the HUMAN nature that has been in people for thousands of years
The nature to be Unfair and prosacute an innocent person.
thats what the whole thing is there for in the first place.

[wes]

Right Dennis, of course the Jury needs to be fully informed, which doesn't always happen. Then sometimes the Judge overides the Jury to make his own decision. And that's not right either.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Well guys, I have to agree with Rave and Shaun. I know I'm new around here and that my opinion carries little weight with the "regulars" but, I must say that none of you need to be told to wipe your bottom when you go potty. Likewise, there are just too many examples of the gummit gone wild. Operating without anyone to answer to. At the risk of sounded like I'm being insulting, Lord Shrike, while I accept your right to disagree, you, Sir, are lost in space! i hope you will go to your health provider and have your medication adjusted. For the life of me, i cannot understand how you cannot see the potential for the gummit to abuse, as they have always done, this new law and the citizens it is supposed to protect. I'll say it once more, if we are going to round file the bill of rights, we should round up every single non-citizen rag head, dot head or sand box person and ship their butts out of this country! PERIOD! If they can, at their own expense, PROVE they are not the problem, then, and only then, will they be allowed back into the country and, even then, they should all be on a very, very short leash. At the FIRST, suspected problem, boom! Execution or, at the very least, deportation on the spot! and finally, the gummit has entirely too much power and should be reined in and punished for all the past crimes that the gummit has perpetrated on the innocent peoples! And, all the managers and department heads should have their hands tied behind their backs and a gasoline soaked, burning tire should be tossed around their necks! Then, the same treatment should be handed down to those responsible for the crimes. We could start with Reno and her buds who murdered the people at Waco! Burning tires! That's the answer!:nod:

[Rave]

Right on Bro',right on!:nod:

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Thank you for the vote of agreement! Burning, gasoline soaked tire?:nod:

[wes]

Agree with ya Ruf. But with the price of gasoline, it could get pretty expensive.

[Sniper[MI]]

Originally posted by Lord Shrike
I agree with Lenny.......

Hory Clap!!! The sky is falling!!!!!



I think we dont need the patriot act anymore than we need an AWB. However, if the Patriot act is used as it is intended we have nothing to fear. I think, maybe.....

As to my solution, give every law abiding American citizen the right to carry, in any state, in any city, in any park, in any building, with a few common sense off limits type places. (Courtrooms, schools Insurance companies etc....

[Rufus Rhastus J]

A gallon of gasoline will soak many tires! I think it's a good investment! Besides, we have tried many things! many things have failed! Why not try a gasoline soak and burning tire! Even a fat a-- Ted Kennedy would make an inviting fire next to the bridge! The smoke would'nt be much of a problem.:nod: I think every politico should be forced to wear one! Maybe then they would think twice about shafting us!:nod: :nod: :nod: