I am going to post this here since I did not see any other place to ask my question.
Last week I was watching either the Military Channel or the History Channel, can't remember which but leaning toward the Military Channel. They were talking about the military weaponrey. This segment of the program went from Revolutionary days to present day arms. It started with the unrifled musket to the Kentucky Rifle.
Then it got into the Viet Nam eara and they started talking about the M16 in the early part of Viet Nam. They said how men hated the M16. Due to jamming, exploded casings with no way to clear the barrel. How the gooberment said the M16 rarely needed cleaning. This rifle put a lot of men in situations that were not good in any firefight. The program interviewed ex Viet Nam Vets about the rifle. When I was in school at the time all this was going on I knew the M16 wasn't worth the plastic it was made with.
Then the program went on to say that the gooberment went to the manufacturers and the M16 was redone. They were issued with a cleaning rod, there were less jams and the soldiers came to respect the new M16 which they dubbed the Sweet16.
Now I have looked at the BushMaster AR15 and the tactical stuff on the market now days. I don't care for the stock, I don't like a rifle that lite, it feels like I am playing with a toy. This is where my question comes into play. Are those Sweet16's on the market? Can you buy one, with the full auto option taken out of course (but the full auto option would be cool)?
I know the old war babies can be had, just at a cost. I have an M1 Carbine that is a war baby, and would love to have the money to pick up a Garand. In my youth I heard from a Marine stationed at Camp Pendleton that the twist on the M16 was reversed and that is what gave it the knock down power it had. I don't know if it is true or not.
__________________ Take what you can, give nothing back: Capt Jack Sparrow
Many years ago I was at a gun show where a dealer had 5-6 M-16's for sale, all semi's. He was asking $350 bucks for one, but I didn't have enough cash on me.
Many years ago I was at a gun show where a dealer had 5-6 M-16's for sale, all semi's. He was asking $350 bucks for one, but I didn't have enough cash on me.
The early M-16s are being sent to Anniston for dismantling and scrapping. I don't know what is being done with the lowers, but I doubt they would be made available anyway, courtesy of that law Reagan passed freezing the number of full autos available to private citizens. However, I have seen kits in the catalogs of some of the online houses that are all Nam-era parts, less the lower.
Your best bet to build a "Sweet 16" (a term I have never heard applied to the gun by anyone who used one in Vietnam, by the way) would be to buy one of those kits and the lower of your choice, and do an AR build. That's as close as you are likely to be able to get to a Vietnam M16A1. It's like my choosing to buy an Auto-Ordnance "Thompson Commando," a semi-auto-only, legal-length barrel version of the M1928A4 Thompson my Dad carried in World War II. There is no way I'll ever be able to afford a real one; they cost as much as a car!
I usually corralate "sweet sixteen" to the Browning A-5 16 guage shotguns. I don't remember the AR/M16 family of weapons refered to as that? 'Course I enlisted a good 9 yrs after the Viet Nam war was over.
The most common AR's seem a bit heavier than the old style ones as well. With the exception being factory or build models with pencil barrels and other light weight componentry.
A TN, I too have never heard of the term Sweet 16 in reference to the M16....back in the day they called it the Mattel gun-because the stocks were made by the Mattel Toy Co. My father-in-law was In Country back to back 65,66 and 67. He told me that they were unreliable and a complete piece of S**T (Due to being flimsy/jams/dirty/ftf's and mags just dropping out) etc.......He would not and did not give up is M14.....There are alot and I do mean alot of AR15 type rifles out there to fit just about anyones taste (They have come a long way). I prefer Colt and own three (3) of them. If you want a heavier AR-you can buy a style of HBar-heavy barrel or you can get one that has the fixed long or shorter butt stock and put a stack of fixed weights inside to make it heavier. Other then Colt-I think there are some very nice,accurate and dependable AR platforms out there. DPMS/Armalite and Bushmaster to name a few. S/W has one that I have heard alot of good comments about and I am sure there are more.....As always you get what you pay for. Before the election BS scare prices in my area range from $649.00 (Olympic Arms) to $2000.00 (Wilson Combat)...
__________________ Fight Like You Train and Train Like You Fight...
The primary failings of the early M16s were caused by the gov. Ignoring the MFG recomended chrome bore and powder type. This caused the bore and works to gum up.
jerry, That's the style I am looking for. Awsome, thanks for the link.
To the rest of the post. I know they were called Matel. And I heard the expression on the program mentioned. One Vet said that after they started chorme lining the barrels and fine tuned them, and issued a cleaning kit, they refered to them as the sweet16. According to him after all that they were a much better rifle.
I found it, well not the program I saw, but close. Look at about 3:56 on the play bar at the bottom of the video. It talks about a comic book put out that told the men how to clean the M16. In that segment the term sweet 16 is used. Thanks for the input. Love it
__________________ Take what you can, give nothing back: Capt Jack Sparrow
m16 lowers run around 8-10k. then add a 200 stamp and 6 month wait. if you want a beefy lower buy 7075 billet. 7075 aluminum has strength equivalent to mild steel and when machined they are generally thicker in most areas.
the army still runs marksmanship drills in training with m16a2's. marines use a4's for training and in combat. id rather have the 20" barrel. course id rather have an m14 ebr but thats me.
Some info as a friend posted elsewhere, as he is in
the know.....
Before I left, I had a Colt Commando, and I sure would like
to have that weapon again. Was very good.
Hope some of this info helps you or anyone else. It is for actual
full auto info etc...and yes, you can obtain a semi to probably be
as you like or describe...
You can buy a machine gun if it was made before May of 1986 and is transferrable. There are three types of machine guns. There are "Pre-86 Dealer Samples", "Post-86 Dealer Samples" and "Transferrable". It depends on how they were registered. A dealer sample is just that - a gun for a dealer to have to show prospective customers. It can only be sold to another dealer. Because of that, it's much cheaper, as the prospective buyer base is much smaller.
If it was made before May of 86, it's a "pre-86 sample", and if the dealer decides to go out of business, he can have it re-registered as transferrable, and keep it.
If it was made after May of 86, it's a "post-86 sample", and if he decides to go out of business, he has to sell it to another dealer, or turn it over to ATF to be destroyed.
"Transferrable" means that anybody that can legally own a machine gun can buy it.
So a transferrable MP5, for example, might cost 20 grand, while a Pre-86 dealer MP5 would cost 10, and a post-86 dealer MP5 would cost 6.
The 200 dollars is a one-time tax on the gun. You buy the gun and it's the price of the gun plus a 200 dollar federal tax. You sell the gun, the new buyer pays your price, plus a 200 dollar federal tax. The gun gets sold five hundred times in its lifetime, and there are five hundred 200 dollar taxes paid.
If you want to buy another gun, you pay another 200 dollar tax.
You hear a lot of crap about "a class 3 license". There is no such thing. You can't get a license to own machine guns. You pay a tax on each one you buy.
And before some dealer takes me to task, no, you don't have a license to "own them", you have a license to "sell them". Or a license to "make them and sell them", but not a license to "own them". Ain't no such thing.
To be a dealer in machine guns you have to pay an additional license fee. First you have to be an FFL. There's a fee for that. Then you have to pay a "Special Occupation Tax". That's an extra fee. A "Type 3 SOT" can sell machine guns and other NFA items. A "Type 2 SOT" can make them and sell them.
(For dealers)
If you want to play with a gun made after May of 1986, you need to be an SOT, and have a letter, on official stationary, saying that someone that can legally own a post-86 gun is interested in a particular type. That basically means a police department. So if your local police force or sheriff's department gives you a letter saying they are interested in buying some FN P90s, then you can get one. If they decide they don't want one after all, you're okay. You can still keep the gun. But when you give up the business, you can't keep it. You got to either sell it to another dealer or turn it in for destruction.
__________________ USN
NRA Member
Concealed Handgun Instructor Texas
Just buy an AR15 in the A1 configuration... same guns. The AR is a civilianized version of the M16, and the AR15 can be had in all sorts of configurations.
I got to fire the early M-16 in USAF bootcamp - well worn rifles that I am surprisd allowed me to actually shoot a decent group at 200 yards. I was not experienced with peep sights at that time and hated them. Now I am a believer and have many rifles (mostly rimfire) fitted with peep sights.
In my experience, the term "Sweet Sixteen" applied to the 16 gauge shotgun. Loved my Rem 870 in 16 gauge for squirrel hunting!
Well I wasn't expectin all that. Dam a couple to a few grand. Ain't worth it. What I was looking for was the M16 style, but with some reliability. Not what was messin us up in Viet Nam. Hell never shot a full auto, wouldn't know what to do. My luck I would be shootin crows and get arrested for shootin them outta the sky on the wrong day LOL. I think here in Tennessee crow huntin is only on Fri thru Sun.
Anyway I have looked at the BushMaster and wasn't particularly fond of the way it felt. So short it just felt wrong. I know some of ya's have built teritactical jobs, but I wouldn't know where to start. My luck I would end up with one of them polish suicide revolvers except in semi auto LOL. Be shootin myself in the face everytime I pulled the trigger.
So where would you start with a build and roughly how much would something like that cost? Like I said before I love the older stuff.
__________________ Take what you can, give nothing back: Capt Jack Sparrow
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