Ffl

trapfreek · 04-08-2002, 07:53 PM

I ordered a gun from a dealer on the Internet. He shipped it to my dealer . My dealer will not release the gun to me because he says that the other dealer has to send him a copy of his FFL, I know that this is not right, but it may take the ATF to convince him. Before you transfer a gun make sure your dealer knows the law.

Rooster · 04-08-2002, 08:00 PM

No disrespect, but make sure you know your dealer would apply also. Hope everything works out.

trapfreek · 04-08-2002, 08:57 PM

Well i thought that I knew this dealer I have bought a couple of guns in the past from him. I think he is just ignorant of what the rules say. I called another dealer in my area and they told me the same thing. I know the book says all he needs is their name and address OR their name and license number

MikeC · 04-09-2002, 12:27 AM

trapfreak, could there be a state law that the dealers are talking about????

trapfreek · 04-09-2002, 06:36 AM

I don't know if there is a state law that applies. I have written to the ATF to find out, if they know and will be talking to the sherriff's office today to see about state laws. The dealer that shipped the gun says that they never have to send their FFL, however they say they will this time. I hope they do so I can get my gun. I will keep you posted with the outcome.

PAPA G · 04-09-2002, 07:09 AM

most unusual. i thought any one can ship/receive to/from a dealer. example returning a firearm for repairs to the maker. i would think that your FFL shouldn't be concerned about the shipping FFL 's license. but there may be some state or even local law that requires it. then again maybe your FFL is just C.Y.A.

Rooster · 04-09-2002, 06:36 PM

Papa G your right, except that when it changes ownership. If your sending it to be fixed or something that ok.

trapfreek · 04-09-2002, 08:30 PM

Good news I finally got my sistema today. I had my wife call the BATF and get the regulation concerning transfers, She then called my dealer and he would not believe her until he called the agent himself. With great humility he called her back and told her to tell me to come and get my gun. Beautiful gun, Got it from JLD Enterprizes. Papa G is right By the way what does C.Y.A. stand for ,(excuse my ignorance).

Klaus · 04-09-2002, 08:46 PM

Cover Your Donkey (ahem)

Rooster · 04-09-2002, 08:49 PM

cover your rear

PAPA G · 04-10-2002, 10:15 AM

glad to hear you got your sistema, which grade did you get?? Klaus and Rooster, already explained CYA (can you aim

). has your dealer been in the business long?? i may cut him some slack. theres so many rules, regulations, and laws they have to follow, its not easy to keep aware of each and every bit of it. especially when theres so many gummint agents looking to score points with their bosses.

trapfreek · 04-10-2002, 04:32 PM

I got the grade 1 and it is really nice. My dealer has been in business for as long as I can remember. I can excuse him for not knowing all the rules I guess. It was just frustrating knowing that he was standing between me and my gun, I don't that he has done very many transfers and if he has it has probably been between him and local shops right across the state line. We are just across from Louisville. He runs mostly a boating and fishing store, and doesn't handle firearms all that much. But now he knows.

Rave · 04-18-2002, 11:45 PM

Well,I saw an ad in the Flyer,a local paper that advertises small items,where a person wanted to sell an SKS,Me being an avid SKS collecter called and left a message,A few days later the individual called me back and said he had 6 Romanian SKSs,had sold one to a dealer for 150 bucks but didn't make any money and said he would like to sell for 160 bucks. he lived only about a mile from me so I aske dif he was a dealer,he said no so I called my brother and off we went.
When we got there we went in and he brought out the SKS,looked good except for the wood,but I had several spare stocks. I told him 160 was ok and if he wanted to sell any others,he said no,only this one and brought out the yellow sheet!
I told him he said he wasn't a dealer and he said he had a collectors license and the ATF kept track of all his guns. I told him the deal was off if I had to sign the sheet.He asked if there was a reason why I wouldn't sign and i told him I had a CCW and that means I had already been checked by the FBI and I would not submit to an unconstitutional Federal regestration.I said he had to and I said I didn't ,where apon he said Florida had just passed a law the first of April making all firearm transfers between private citizens illegal unless they went through a licensed dealer!
At that point I felt it was time to leave before i had to floor that lying sack!
The Gumment seems to be making all gun folks a pack-o-liers.Some folks will do or say anything to make a buck!
Have you ever heard the likes of that????

EOD Guy · 04-19-2002, 11:38 AM

He was incorrect about the Form 4473. It is not used by C&R licensees. He is required however, to get your name and address for his bound book.

Rave · 04-19-2002, 03:28 PM

Thanks EODGuy,for that tidbit,think I will give it a rest for a while.I don't think this will be productive,never is.

Stopper · 04-19-2002, 04:38 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have a hypothesis why these darrells are pulling some of this stuff.

It all goes back to thier wives, just listen, the fella wants to do things the guy way, which works well. But the wife jumps in and everyone knows if the guy is "marble-less" he will go the way of the wife. The ladies are so influential the guy folds, because he doesn't want to lose "privledges".

Come on, with the "empowerment" of women and thier ability to gather forces, just look at the anti-gun, MMM, and the Rosies of the world. They go out and vote more than most men these days and they know that so they are very willing to use that against us.
Men don't want stress and women know this so they will pressure the men into doing thier dirty work. Thus causing usually intelligent well meaning fellas to go absolutly bonkers and do the stupidest stuff!

The women want a quiet, white picket fence type of life and alot of those June Cleavers are willing to do or say anything to get that for themselves. And thats it, it is for themselves while they claim it is for all our good.

They can't help but see guns as evil, becuase when they think guns, they think men, and men are evil too! They can't live with us and they can't kill us either.

MikeC · 04-20-2002, 11:40 PM

Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong BUT, if this guy has a C&R license it is not meant for selling to others. I have always thought it allows the holder to bypass transfer fees from a "regular" dealer. I also thought that a C&R holder is not supposed to be engaged in the business of selling firearms and if they do sell a gun, it might have to go thru a regular dealer. Am I wrong???

Jesse · 04-21-2002, 12:35 AM

This is true, an 03 C&R FFL holder is not to engage in business activity concerning firearms sales for profit. There is a vague loophole however... ATF allows an 03 C&R FFL holder to "thin out" his/her collection. The transfer of such firearms must be documented in the Firearms Transaction Record log book all 03 C&R FFL holders must keep. To be safe, if you have an 03 C&R FFL and seek to sell some of your logged firearms, sell them to another 03 C&R FFL license holder or an 01 FFL license holder.

Jesse

SPOCAHP ANAR · 04-21-2002, 10:24 AM

I wouldn't sell any item to anyone That I didn't know was clean (background check). This usually means I know the person well. Unless the gun was a third party purchase to begin with and could not be traced back to me(dealer's records). You have to be careful these days. Anti gunners are looking to stick it to us anyway they can. Sell a gun to a criminal and see if they do not try to stick you with the crime.

Beaver · 04-26-2002, 10:35 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but if these seemingly intelligent fellas can be "empowered" by women and made to go bonkers, then were they that intelligent to begin with. I find it hard to believe that anyone man or woman who honestly has a strong belief in a cause can be forced to change that belief for fear of losing "priveleges". If he changes his mind then I believe he didn't really believe in the cause to begin with.

I can't deny that there are women out there who do deny "priveleges", but isn't it the men who encourage such behavior? Isn't it the men who give in and allow the process to continue?

04-08-2002, 07:53 PM	#1
trapfreek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 491 Trader Rating: (0)	Ffl I ordered a gun from a dealer on the Internet. He shipped it to my dealer . My dealer will not release the gun to me because he says that the other dealer has to send him a copy of his FFL, I know that this is not right, but it may take the ATF to convince him. Before you transfer a gun make sure your dealer knows the law.

04-08-2002, 08:57 PM	#3
trapfreek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 491 Trader Rating: (0)	FFL Well i thought that I knew this dealer I have bought a couple of guns in the past from him. I think he is just ignorant of what the rules say. I called another dealer in my area and they told me the same thing. I know the book says all he needs is their name and address OR their name and license number

04-09-2002, 06:36 AM	#5
trapfreek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 491 Trader Rating: (0)	I don't know if there is a state law that applies. I have written to the ATF to find out, if they know and will be talking to the sherriff's office today to see about state laws. The dealer that shipped the gun says that they never have to send their FFL, however they say they will this time. I hope they do so I can get my gun. I will keep you posted with the outcome. __________________ "Great minds talk about ideas, small minds talk about other people."

04-09-2002, 08:30 PM	#8
trapfreek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 491 Trader Rating: (0)	Good news I finally got my sistema today. I had my wife call the BATF and get the regulation concerning transfers, She then called my dealer and he would not believe her until he called the agent himself. With great humility he called her back and told her to tell me to come and get my gun. Beautiful gun, Got it from JLD Enterprizes. Papa G is right By the way what does C.Y.A. stand for ,(excuse my ignorance). __________________ "Great minds talk about ideas, small minds talk about other people."

04-09-2002, 08:46 PM	#9
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383 Trader Rating: (0)	Cover Your Donkey (ahem) __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

04-08-2002, 08:00 PM	#2
Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SW FLA Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	No disrespect, but make sure you know your dealer would apply also. Hope everything works out.

04-09-2002, 12:27 AM	#4
MikeC Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 96 Trader Rating: (0)	trapfreak, could there be a state law that the dealers are talking about????

04-09-2002, 07:09 AM	#6
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12 Trader Rating: (0)	most unusual. i thought any one can ship/receive to/from a dealer. example returning a firearm for repairs to the maker. i would think that your FFL shouldn't be concerned about the shipping FFL 's license. but there may be some state or even local law that requires it. then again maybe your FFL is just C.Y.A.

04-09-2002, 06:36 PM	#7
Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SW FLA Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	Papa G your right, except that when it changes ownership. If your sending it to be fixed or something that ok.

04-09-2002, 08:49 PM	#10
Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SW FLA Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	cover your rear

04-10-2002, 10:15 AM	#11
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12 Trader Rating: (0)	glad to hear you got your sistema, which grade did you get?? Klaus and Rooster, already explained CYA (can you aim ). has your dealer been in the business long?? i may cut him some slack. theres so many rules, regulations, and laws they have to follow, its not easy to keep aware of each and every bit of it. especially when theres so many gummint agents looking to score points with their bosses.

04-10-2002, 04:32 PM	#12
trapfreek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 491 Trader Rating: (0)	I got the grade 1 and it is really nice. My dealer has been in business for as long as I can remember. I can excuse him for not knowing all the rules I guess. It was just frustrating knowing that he was standing between me and my gun, I don't that he has done very many transfers and if he has it has probably been between him and local shops right across the state line. We are just across from Louisville. He runs mostly a boating and fishing store, and doesn't handle firearms all that much. But now he knows. __________________ "Great minds talk about ideas, small minds talk about other people."

04-18-2002, 11:45 PM	#13
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,744 Trader Rating: (0)	Well,I saw an ad in the Flyer,a local paper that advertises small items,where a person wanted to sell an SKS,Me being an avid SKS collecter called and left a message,A few days later the individual called me back and said he had 6 Romanian SKSs,had sold one to a dealer for 150 bucks but didn't make any money and said he would like to sell for 160 bucks. he lived only about a mile from me so I aske dif he was a dealer,he said no so I called my brother and off we went. When we got there we went in and he brought out the SKS,looked good except for the wood,but I had several spare stocks. I told him 160 was ok and if he wanted to sell any others,he said no,only this one and brought out the yellow sheet! I told him he said he wasn't a dealer and he said he had a collectors license and the ATF kept track of all his guns. I told him the deal was off if I had to sign the sheet.He asked if there was a reason why I wouldn't sign and i told him I had a CCW and that means I had already been checked by the FBI and I would not submit to an unconstitutional Federal regestration.I said he had to and I said I didn't ,where apon he said Florida had just passed a law the first of April making all firearm transfers between private citizens illegal unless they went through a licensed dealer! At that point I felt it was time to leave before i had to floor that lying sack! The Gumment seems to be making all gun folks a pack-o-liers.Some folks will do or say anything to make a buck! Have you ever heard the likes of that???? __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

04-19-2002, 11:38 AM	#14
EOD Guy Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 34 Trader Rating: (0)	He was incorrect about the Form 4473. It is not used by C&R licensees. He is required however, to get your name and address for his bound book.

04-19-2002, 03:28 PM	#15
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,744 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks EODGuy,for that tidbit,think I will give it a rest for a while.I don't think this will be productive,never is. __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

04-19-2002, 04:38 PM	#16
Stopper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansass Posts: 2,210 Trader Rating: (0)	Correct me if I am wrong, but I have a hypothesis why these darrells are pulling some of this stuff. It all goes back to thier wives, just listen, the fella wants to do things the guy way, which works well. But the wife jumps in and everyone knows if the guy is "marble-less" he will go the way of the wife. The ladies are so influential the guy folds, because he doesn't want to lose "privledges". Come on, with the "empowerment" of women and thier ability to gather forces, just look at the anti-gun, MMM, and the Rosies of the world. They go out and vote more than most men these days and they know that so they are very willing to use that against us. Men don't want stress and women know this so they will pressure the men into doing thier dirty work. Thus causing usually intelligent well meaning fellas to go absolutly bonkers and do the stupidest stuff! The women want a quiet, white picket fence type of life and alot of those June Cleavers are willing to do or say anything to get that for themselves. And thats it, it is for themselves while they claim it is for all our good. They can't help but see guns as evil, becuase when they think guns, they think men, and men are evil too! They can't live with us and they can't kill us either. __________________ They should have stopped at "Congress shall make no law"

04-20-2002, 11:40 PM	#17
MikeC Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 96 Trader Rating: (0)	Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong BUT, if this guy has a C&R license it is not meant for selling to others. I have always thought it allows the holder to bypass transfer fees from a "regular" dealer. I also thought that a C&R holder is not supposed to be engaged in the business of selling firearms and if they do sell a gun, it might have to go thru a regular dealer. Am I wrong???

04-21-2002, 12:35 AM	#18
Jesse Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,945 Trader Rating: (0)	This is true, an 03 C&R FFL holder is not to engage in business activity concerning firearms sales for profit. There is a vague loophole however... ATF allows an 03 C&R FFL holder to "thin out" his/her collection. The transfer of such firearms must be documented in the Firearms Transaction Record log book all 03 C&R FFL holders must keep. To be safe, if you have an 03 C&R FFL and seek to sell some of your logged firearms, sell them to another 03 C&R FFL license holder or an 01 FFL license holder. Jesse __________________ Jesse www.gunandgame.com

04-21-2002, 10:24 AM	#19
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,032 Trader Rating: (0)	In today's world I wouldn't sell any item to anyone That I didn't know was clean (background check). This usually means I know the person well. Unless the gun was a third party purchase to begin with and could not be traced back to me(dealer's records). You have to be careful these days. Anti gunners are looking to stick it to us anyway they can. Sell a gun to a criminal and see if they do not try to stick you with the crime. __________________ Spocrest Out!..........

04-26-2002, 10:35 AM	#20
Beaver Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 2 Trader Rating: (0)	Correct me if I am wrong, but if these seemingly intelligent fellas can be "empowered" by women and made to go bonkers, then were they that intelligent to begin with. I find it hard to believe that anyone man or woman who honestly has a strong belief in a cause can be forced to change that belief for fear of losing "priveleges". If he changes his mind then I believe he didn't really believe in the cause to begin with. I can't deny that there are women out there who do deny "priveleges", but isn't it the men who encourage such behavior? Isn't it the men who give in and allow the process to continue? Last edited by Beaver; 04-26-2002 at 10:38 AM.