NJ is second state to allow stem cell research

SexyRedXterra · 01-08-2004, 10:44 PM

NJ allows stem cell research

NJ has become the second state to allow stem cell research (after CA) from embryos. This angers me because it is a form of abortion which is murder of innocent life. A few years ago I wrote a paper on this subject. One does not need to use embryos for medical research; one can use the cells around umbilical cords. Those cells are even better than those from embryos. I love how the media tries to hide that fact.

As for McGreevey and Christopher Reeves, they're idiots. I am counting down the days until I move out of this unholy state...

Shaun · 01-08-2004, 10:47 PM

what do you expect thats the liberal objective

SexyRedXterra · 01-08-2004, 10:49 PM

And I love how they make it seem that this sin is not a sin but a good thing for humanity. How come they always pull that lie?

Shaun · 01-08-2004, 11:01 PM

They place no value on life -- in a liberal's mind Saddam wasn't doing anything wrong with his killing of his own citizens.

SexyRedXterra · 01-08-2004, 11:05 PM

that's because they think it's ok for our government to kill its people (like the unborn).

01-08-2004, 11:18 PM

Stem Cell Research has never caused one single abortion and it never will. If you have any proof to the contrary please post it as I would like to see it.

"And I love how they make it seem that this sin is not a sin but a good thing for humanity."
Why not just advocate the forced conversion of all citizens so we can all see the world through your narrow eyes???

SexyRedXterra · 01-08-2004, 11:34 PM

That's not what I was saying. I was very much likening it to abortion because it is extinguishing human life. They use embryos left over from in vitro (thrown away children). When a couple uses in vitro, usually 8 embryos are formed. This is done for two reasons--in case one dies and in case the couple wants more than one child. However,very rarely do couples use all 8 embryos (maybe 2 or 3 at the most). The rest of the embryos (who are children) are then discarded. Now in NJ the discarded embryos can be used towards research. The live embryos are ripped open for its cells. That's murder, and I was likening it to abortion. There are other alternatives to taking stem cells from embryos, like from the umbilical cord area of pregnant women. This issue however goes beyond the stem cell research to the evils of in vitro. They shouldn't be allowed to just discard life like that

01-08-2004, 11:43 PM

first of all embryos are not children or there would be thousands more people on death row.

secondly, you mentioned frozen and live in the same post. well are the embryos live or frozen? they can't be both.

and we're not talking about discarding life and more then we're advocating murder when a woman has a menstrual period or when a man masturbates. we're talking about the possibility of life. huge difference.

and since when was in vitro evil? it allows people to have children that previously weren't able.

Shaun · 01-08-2004, 11:47 PM

I thought she was talking about abortions here not embryos

SexyRedXterra · 01-08-2004, 11:47 PM

I never used the word frozen at all.

It is life. They are the first cells of life. This is after the point of conception. It is so not the same thing as menstuation or masturbation.

SexyRedXterra · 01-08-2004, 11:53 PM

but what is the difference between abortion and discarding unwanted children from in vitro other than one is inside the body and one is outside the body?

01-09-2004, 12:06 AM

oops you didn't mention frozen. But that's what happens to the extras anyways.

"but what is the difference between abortion and discarding unwanted children from in vitro"
When someone discards an unwanted child they are charged for a crime. How many invitro clinics or parents have been charged with such crimes?

"It is life. They are the first cells of life. This is after the point of conception. It is so not the same thing as menstuation or masturbation"
Wrong. It is still the possibility of life. A few cells are nothing more than a few cells that may or may not become a human. If your theory is correct, then miscarraiges are murder.

7mmag6 · 01-09-2004, 12:17 AM

ill chime in of course i dont know sh-it from shinola on this one, but I think the problem is awareness, when does the impregnated embyo become aware of life and senscient, before awareness is only a mass of cells, dividing towards the possibility of conscious state, its a tough call, glad im a lutheran, we dont worry about these things

BattleRifleG3 · 01-09-2004, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lenny2

Wrong. It is still the possibility of life. A few cells are nothing more than a few cells that may or may not become a human. If your theory is correct, then miscarraiges are murder.

Lenny, the core of the abortion issue is at what point is a human being alive. Many many many many many people, regardless of religion, believe that life begins at conception. Your whole arguement is based on the presumption that it does not. You apparently hold the view that is held by our laws. Many knowledgeable people, however, do not share that view. Ironically, your attitude if "you're wrong, I know the right answer" resembles some of the more arrogant people you would argue against on the issue. SRX knows exactly what I mean.
Regarding miscariages, it's a natural death, not touching the issue of murder. That should be a major "duh" for anyone, like the difference between killing a person and them dying of illness. How many women have wanted miscariages? Ask anyone whose had one. Many mourn them as having lost a child. Of course there are abortion drugs and practices that basically induce a miscarriage. Yes, I believe that is murder.
Concerning male masturbation, there are those who believe it is not murder, but a sinful waste of life potential. I believe that life begins at conception, not after, not before. Any other discussion of masturbation is an issue of personal purity. That discussion is for another thread that will begin with a poll of how many of us do not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lenny2
oops you didn't mention frozen. But that's what happens to the extras anyways.

And since we have not found a way to prevent cell destruction during the crystallization process in freezing, freezing a living being effectively kills it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lenny2

When someone discards an unwanted child they are charged for a crime. How many invitro clinics or parents have been charged with such crimes?

I really expected you'd have a more sound arguement than that. How many times in human history have terrible atrocities been condoned by the state? You can't seriously be telling me that the way to determine whether something is wrong or not is whether there's a law against it.

BattleRifleG3 · 01-09-2004, 02:55 AM

Oh yeah, isn't this basically in defiance of federal law against using new embryos for it?

7mmag6 · 01-09-2004, 02:59 AM

heavy subject, I dont know what martin luther would say,all I can say is im glad im lutheran, martin luther rocks

BattleRifleG3 · 01-09-2004, 02:59 AM

Ironically, my current avatar is of Dr Daniel Jackson from Stargate SG1 emptying an MP5 into a hatchery of goa'uld larva. Of course they have genetic memory so one could argue that they are already his enemy and that he's attacking his enemy where vulnerable.

Sorry, no bunny trail intended, cause this is a serious discussion?

01-08-2004, 10:44 PM	#1
SexyRedXterra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: NJ Shore and Western PA Posts: 1,206 Trader Rating: (0)	NJ is second state to allow stem cell research NJ allows stem cell research NJ has become the second state to allow stem cell research (after CA) from embryos. This angers me because it is a form of abortion which is murder of innocent life. A few years ago I wrote a paper on this subject. One does not need to use embryos for medical research; one can use the cells around umbilical cords. Those cells are even better than those from embryos. I love how the media tries to hide that fact. As for McGreevey and Christopher Reeves, they're idiots. I am counting down the days until I move out of this unholy state... __________________ "God doesn't always do things on our schedule, but he's always right on time."

01-08-2004, 10:47 PM	#2
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	what do you expect thats the liberal objective __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-08-2004, 10:49 PM	#3
SexyRedXterra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: NJ Shore and Western PA Posts: 1,206 Trader Rating: (0)	And I love how they make it seem that this sin is not a sin but a good thing for humanity. How come they always pull that lie? __________________ "God doesn't always do things on our schedule, but he's always right on time."

01-08-2004, 11:01 PM	#4
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	They place no value on life -- in a liberal's mind Saddam wasn't doing anything wrong with his killing of his own citizens. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-08-2004, 11:05 PM	#5
SexyRedXterra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: NJ Shore and Western PA Posts: 1,206 Trader Rating: (0)	that's because they think it's ok for our government to kill its people (like the unborn). __________________ "God doesn't always do things on our schedule, but he's always right on time."

01-08-2004, 11:18 PM	#6
Lenny2 Guest Posts: n/a	Stem Cell Research has never caused one single abortion and it never will. If you have any proof to the contrary please post it as I would like to see it. "And I love how they make it seem that this sin is not a sin but a good thing for humanity." Why not just advocate the forced conversion of all citizens so we can all see the world through your narrow eyes???

01-08-2004, 11:34 PM	#7
SexyRedXterra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: NJ Shore and Western PA Posts: 1,206 Trader Rating: (0)	That's not what I was saying. I was very much likening it to abortion because it is extinguishing human life. They use embryos left over from in vitro (thrown away children). When a couple uses in vitro, usually 8 embryos are formed. This is done for two reasons--in case one dies and in case the couple wants more than one child. However,very rarely do couples use all 8 embryos (maybe 2 or 3 at the most). The rest of the embryos (who are children) are then discarded. Now in NJ the discarded embryos can be used towards research. The live embryos are ripped open for its cells. That's murder, and I was likening it to abortion. There are other alternatives to taking stem cells from embryos, like from the umbilical cord area of pregnant women. This issue however goes beyond the stem cell research to the evils of in vitro. They shouldn't be allowed to just discard life like that __________________ "God doesn't always do things on our schedule, but he's always right on time."

01-08-2004, 11:43 PM	#8
Lenny2 Guest Posts: n/a	first of all embryos are not children or there would be thousands more people on death row. secondly, you mentioned frozen and live in the same post. well are the embryos live or frozen? they can't be both. and we're not talking about discarding life and more then we're advocating murder when a woman has a menstrual period or when a man masturbates. we're talking about the possibility of life. huge difference. and since when was in vitro evil? it allows people to have children that previously weren't able.

01-08-2004, 11:47 PM	#9
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	I thought she was talking about abortions here not embryos __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-08-2004, 11:53 PM	#11
SexyRedXterra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: NJ Shore and Western PA Posts: 1,206 Trader Rating: (0)	but what is the difference between abortion and discarding unwanted children from in vitro other than one is inside the body and one is outside the body? __________________ "God doesn't always do things on our schedule, but he's always right on time."

01-09-2004, 12:06 AM	#12
Lenny2 Guest Posts: n/a	oops you didn't mention frozen. But that's what happens to the extras anyways. "but what is the difference between abortion and discarding unwanted children from in vitro" When someone discards an unwanted child they are charged for a crime. How many invitro clinics or parents have been charged with such crimes? "It is life. They are the first cells of life. This is after the point of conception. It is so not the same thing as menstuation or masturbation" Wrong. It is still the possibility of life. A few cells are nothing more than a few cells that may or may not become a human. If your theory is correct, then miscarraiges are murder.

01-09-2004, 12:17 AM	#13
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Trader Rating: (0)	ill chime in of course i dont know sh-it from shinola on this one, but I think the problem is awareness, when does the impregnated embyo become aware of life and senscient, before awareness is only a mass of cells, dividing towards the possibility of conscious state, its a tough call, glad im a lutheran, we dont worry about these things

01-09-2004, 02:55 AM	#15
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Oh yeah, isn't this basically in defiance of federal law against using new embryos for it? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-09-2004, 02:59 AM	#16
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Trader Rating: (0)	heavy subject, I dont know what martin luther would say,all I can say is im glad im lutheran, martin luther rocks