No Cop will ever enter my house! - Page 3

oneastrix · 03-31-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

I don't want to get into a shouting match on here so I'm just going to sit back and watch for a while.

Roger that Rooster.......1*

whirlwind · 03-31-2004, 03:24 PM

ok, so now they can only come in and take a quick look around...when the first cop gets surprised by something else then they will change the law to include ...well lets say they can now come in do a quick look and look in your closets. next time something happens they will be able to look even further! it is the start of the erosion of our rights folks! its just like gun registration is the begining of disarming the people of this country...its no differant!

Dennis · 04-01-2004, 01:28 AM

Rooster and 1* You understand that the opinions expressed are by reasonable men
We are not Perps
I hope you guys understand that the fears we have are well founded
I hope you can think about the Ideas we have expressed
Do your best

Lord Shrike · 04-01-2004, 02:48 AM

If they don't they will be mortal enemies soon. I honestly think if there are not massive reversals in the this area there will be unprecedented blood shed. Should the second american civil war erupt when I think it will (withing 5 to 10 years) I expect LEO's to suffer 60 to 70% losses. They will be caught in the middle unless they have the wisdom to start backing civil liberties soon.

Rufus Rhastus J · 04-01-2004, 07:37 AM

Did'nt you listen to the tone of thier remarks? They clearly think they are morally, and politicaly one step above every other American. Why not? They're Law enforcement! They got God/government on thir side! We are the sheeple! We do as we are told. "Protect and Serve", what bull....!

The cops need to bend over, pull thier heads out! We, the people, are not tier enemy! The gummit is! But, they need to also realize that they bear some responsibility for how much they are hated. After all, they choose this line of work....[so they could bully us?]...so they could be big shots, I can't imagine why. I know, being a cop is like being thegarbage man....somebody's got to do it! Why am I saying all this? Well, it's the same principal, somebody has to do it! You cops, and wanna-bees, need to know that much of what you do is wrong. legal....but still wrong! Finally, Americans will get tired of you.

MAX7.62 · 04-01-2004, 07:45 AM

I think part of the deal here is the definition differance between "searching the house" and "clearing the house". A search is a methodical undertaking where everything is carefully studied. Clearing a house is a quick room to room, usually with a 2 to 4 man team - for the purpose, as stated above - of making sure some POS isn't hiding behind a door ready to take out an officer. Clearing is for the safety of the officers in question and not really a "search" for evidence. Of course there is a high probability that during a clearing exercise there will be some things seen that serve as evidence. This is where the rules and the court come in, officers still have to be careful the way search and evidence is handled because some can still become inadmissable in court because of the lack of a warrant or other details. Cops not only have to worry about getting shot at, they got a lot of rules to keep in mind every time they go on a call, it ain't an easy job!

Rooster · 04-01-2004, 08:04 AM

Exactly! MAX thats it. From the article in question when they looked in the closet see the rifles - then find out the guy is a convicted felon - he gets hooked up. This type of exception to the 4th admendment is not new - the Courts, all the way to the Supreme Court have granted this exception for officer safety. You can't look where a person can't hide ie the breadbox or desk drawer, but a closet would/could conceal someone.

1*, I know I said I would just watch but Max7.62 did a good job of explaining the exception.

oneastrix · 04-01-2004, 08:23 AM

Exactly Rooster.....you can't look for an elephant in a matchbox as my old academy instructor once said.

I had said in the begginning that there is nothing new here that I can see.

Lord Shrike · 04-01-2004, 10:51 AM

Wow you guys don't even realize what the consitution says do yah. Pretty scary if you ask me. Know I now to never trust a cop period.

whirlwind · 04-01-2004, 11:26 AM

the constitution is not just guide lines...its the rock foundation that this country was built on and the rights established to us in it should never be infringed on for any reason what so ever!

Rooster · 04-01-2004, 02:25 PM

Wasn't cops that did it - Guys your beef is with the courts - up to and including the supreme court.

Shaun · 04-01-2004, 02:59 PM

I have no problem with clearing a house thats simple tactical smarts on the part of the officer - it also goes to officer safety. My main issue is that we need to remember that many people hear the term search we see all our houses getting ransacked.

I can only speak for myself and I am sure Matt will agree in a dangerous call you have no idea what you are going into and being in someones house is very dangerous and knowing who is there is very important so you can go home at night.

What I don't like seeing ruf is the bad ones because they ruin it for the good cops like the ones on here. ATF is know for their falsification of evidence and even their planting of contraband so if I don't trust anyone its going to be the Storm troopers of the ATF because they have demonstrated to me through a local arrest last year that they plant evidnece - in last years case they had planted a grenade and some Military grade C4 at a guys house near me -- he is out know and they had to surrender all his guns back too him -- too bad they didn't fix his house. Furthermore, they even tried to say he had illegal silencers on several of his guns and that he wasn't licensed for them -- then he presented his FFL to demonstrate he had legal authority to own each.

whirlwind · 04-01-2004, 03:55 PM

granted cops didnt pass the law,but yall sure are pretty vocal in support of this part of the constitution being thrown by the way side. hey i dont like some parts of the constitution either,but i would not change one part of it if my life depended on it because if one part of it is changed the whole thing isnt worth the paper its printed on. and yes,being a cop is a very dangerous job!!! but most cops ive known know that when they sign up. if some think its too dangerous i think of it like joining the army if ya dont want the risk dont take the job. most cops are good folks but their are those that arent and those are the ones that the constitution is there to protect us against.

Lord Shrike · 04-01-2004, 04:43 PM

Thats true Rooster it was activist revisionist judges who should be impeached and imprisoned for there blantant betrayl of the document they are sworn to uphold. What disturbs me on the cop end is there are far to few of you vocally disagreeing with this ruling and way to many of you agreeing with it. You are sworn to uphold the constitution of the US it would be nice to see some of you take that part of your oath more seriously.

oneastrix · 04-01-2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

You are sworn to uphold the constitution of the US it would be nice to see some of you take that part of your oath more seriously.

I don't see that I have personally ever failed to do so.

Lord Shrike · 04-01-2004, 11:28 PM

When you support ruleings like this you are.

7mmag6 · 04-01-2004, 11:57 PM

if any police officer wants to search my house the door is open and ill make them coffee,

Rooster · 04-02-2004, 05:35 AM

Shrike - you sound like a Liberal

If a quick peek behind the door keeps the LEO alive too bad for the POS that tries to shoot someone in the back.

TScottW99 · 04-02-2004, 06:19 AM

Isn't this ruling just saying Terry V. Ohio is still good and should include a residence? This ruling does not allow Police to drive up to any house and "search" it.

oneastrix · 04-02-2004, 08:36 AM

I venture to say that if the guy had not been arrested for something gun related my friends here would not be near as worked up.

03-31-2004, 03:24 PM	#42
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,737 Images: 1	ok, so now they can only come in and take a quick look around...when the first cop gets surprised by something else then they will change the law to include ...well lets say they can now come in do a quick look and look in your closets. next time something happens they will be able to look even further! it is the start of the erosion of our rights folks! its just like gun registration is the begining of disarming the people of this country...its no differant! __________________ De oppresso liber !

04-01-2004, 01:28 AM	#43
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,877	Rooster and 1* You understand that the opinions expressed are by reasonable men We are not Perps I hope you guys understand that the fears we have are well founded I hope you can think about the Ideas we have expressed Do your best __________________ Submitted with respect to all

04-01-2004, 02:48 AM	#44
Lord Shrike Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MOOOOOOOOOOO land also known as Wisconsin Posts: 1,103	If they don't they will be mortal enemies soon. I honestly think if there are not massive reversals in the this area there will be unprecedented blood shed. Should the second american civil war erupt when I think it will (withing 5 to 10 years) I expect LEO's to suffer 60 to 70% losses. They will be caught in the middle unless they have the wisdom to start backing civil liberties soon. __________________ Taint nuthin a 12 gauge wont solve

04-01-2004, 07:37 AM	#45
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Images: 1	Why would they do that? Did'nt you listen to the tone of thier remarks? They clearly think they are morally, and politicaly one step above every other American. Why not? They're Law enforcement! They got God/government on thir side! We are the sheeple! We do as we are told. "Protect and Serve", what bull....! The cops need to bend over, pull thier heads out! We, the people, are not tier enemy! The gummit is! But, they need to also realize that they bear some responsibility for how much they are hated. After all, they choose this line of work....[so they could bully us?]...so they could be big shots, I can't imagine why. I know, being a cop is like being thegarbage man....somebody's got to do it! Why am I saying all this? Well, it's the same principal, somebody has to do it! You cops, and wanna-bees, need to know that much of what you do is wrong. legal....but still wrong! Finally, Americans will get tired of you. __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf Last edited by Rufus Rhastus J; 04-01-2004 at 07:46 AM.

04-01-2004, 07:45 AM	#46
MAX7.62 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Classified Posts: 934	I think part of the deal here is the definition differance between "searching the house" and "clearing the house". A search is a methodical undertaking where everything is carefully studied. Clearing a house is a quick room to room, usually with a 2 to 4 man team - for the purpose, as stated above - of making sure some POS isn't hiding behind a door ready to take out an officer. Clearing is for the safety of the officers in question and not really a "search" for evidence. Of course there is a high probability that during a clearing exercise there will be some things seen that serve as evidence. This is where the rules and the court come in, officers still have to be careful the way search and evidence is handled because some can still become inadmissable in court because of the lack of a warrant or other details. Cops not only have to worry about getting shot at, they got a lot of rules to keep in mind every time they go on a call, it ain't an easy job! __________________ The Second Amendment, it ain't about DUCK HUNTING! I feel more like I do now that I did when I first got here!

04-01-2004, 08:04 AM	#47
Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SW FLA Posts: 186	Exactly! MAX thats it. From the article in question when they looked in the closet see the rifles - then find out the guy is a convicted felon - he gets hooked up. This type of exception to the 4th admendment is not new - the Courts, all the way to the Supreme Court have granted this exception for officer safety. You can't look where a person can't hide ie the breadbox or desk drawer, but a closet would/could conceal someone. 1*, I know I said I would just watch but Max7.62 did a good job of explaining the exception.

04-01-2004, 08:23 AM	#48
oneastrix Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 5,213	Exactly Rooster.....you can't look for an elephant in a matchbox as my old academy instructor once said. I had said in the begginning that there is nothing new here that I can see. __________________ There's no one more thankful to sit at the table, than the one who best remembers hunger's pain.

04-01-2004, 10:51 AM	#49
Lord Shrike Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MOOOOOOOOOOO land also known as Wisconsin Posts: 1,103	Wow you guys don't even realize what the consitution says do yah. Pretty scary if you ask me. Know I now to never trust a cop period. __________________ Taint nuthin a 12 gauge wont solve

04-01-2004, 11:26 AM	#50
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,737 Images: 1	the constitution is not just guide lines...its the rock foundation that this country was built on and the rights established to us in it should never be infringed on for any reason what so ever! __________________ De oppresso liber !

04-01-2004, 02:25 PM	#51
Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SW FLA Posts: 186	Wasn't cops that did it - Guys your beef is with the courts - up to and including the supreme court.

04-01-2004, 02:59 PM	#52
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	I have no problem with clearing a house thats simple tactical smarts on the part of the officer - it also goes to officer safety. My main issue is that we need to remember that many people hear the term search we see all our houses getting ransacked. I can only speak for myself and I am sure Matt will agree in a dangerous call you have no idea what you are going into and being in someones house is very dangerous and knowing who is there is very important so you can go home at night. What I don't like seeing ruf is the bad ones because they ruin it for the good cops like the ones on here. ATF is know for their falsification of evidence and even their planting of contraband so if I don't trust anyone its going to be the Storm troopers of the ATF because they have demonstrated to me through a local arrest last year that they plant evidnece - in last years case they had planted a grenade and some Military grade C4 at a guys house near me -- he is out know and they had to surrender all his guns back too him -- too bad they didn't fix his house. Furthermore, they even tried to say he had illegal silencers on several of his guns and that he wasn't licensed for them -- then he presented his FFL to demonstrate he had legal authority to own each. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

04-01-2004, 03:55 PM	#53
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,737 Images: 1	granted cops didnt pass the law,but yall sure are pretty vocal in support of this part of the constitution being thrown by the way side. hey i dont like some parts of the constitution either,but i would not change one part of it if my life depended on it because if one part of it is changed the whole thing isnt worth the paper its printed on. and yes,being a cop is a very dangerous job!!! but most cops ive known know that when they sign up. if some think its too dangerous i think of it like joining the army if ya dont want the risk dont take the job. most cops are good folks but their are those that arent and those are the ones that the constitution is there to protect us against. __________________ De oppresso liber !

04-01-2004, 04:43 PM	#54
Lord Shrike Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MOOOOOOOOOOO land also known as Wisconsin Posts: 1,103	Thats true Rooster it was activist revisionist judges who should be impeached and imprisoned for there blantant betrayl of the document they are sworn to uphold. What disturbs me on the cop end is there are far to few of you vocally disagreeing with this ruling and way to many of you agreeing with it. You are sworn to uphold the constitution of the US it would be nice to see some of you take that part of your oath more seriously. __________________ Taint nuthin a 12 gauge wont solve

04-01-2004, 11:28 PM	#56
Lord Shrike Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MOOOOOOOOOOO land also known as Wisconsin Posts: 1,103	When you support ruleings like this you are. __________________ Taint nuthin a 12 gauge wont solve

04-01-2004, 11:57 PM	#57
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	if any police officer wants to search my house the door is open and ill make them coffee,

04-02-2004, 05:35 AM	#58
Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SW FLA Posts: 186	Shrike - you sound like a Liberal If a quick peek behind the door keeps the LEO alive too bad for the POS that tries to shoot someone in the back. Last edited by Rooster; 04-02-2004 at 05:38 AM.

04-02-2004, 06:19 AM	#59
TScottW99 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Roanoke County, VA Posts: 201	Isn't this ruling just saying Terry V. Ohio is still good and should include a residence? This ruling does not allow Police to drive up to any house and "search" it. __________________ "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin http://tscott.fws1.com

04-02-2004, 08:36 AM	#60
oneastrix Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 5,213	I venture to say that if the guy had not been arrested for something gun related my friends here would not be near as worked up. __________________ There's no one more thankful to sit at the table, than the one who best remembers hunger's pain.