Paul Johnson executed

[SexyRedXterra]

OK first of all, I resent the term "extreme Christian." I would consider myself an "extreme Christian." This means I actually believe in Christianity and that Christ came to save us through His death and resurrection. Anyone who kills other in the name of Christianity is not a Christian.

Second of all, Christianity is innately peaceable, unlike Islam. Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of nice, law abiding Muslims, but if they followed their religion to the letter of the law, they'd all be similar to Osama Bin Laden.

[Lord Shrike]

I agree with point one or at least I understand your objection to the term. What I meant to convey is those who would use there faith as a excuse or justification to kill innocents. On your second point I have to disagree. There is just as much material in the Bible as there is in the Qoran that can be twisted in murderous propaganda. Christianity went through this in the Dark ages. Islam still is. Espcially in the middle east.

[SexyRedXterra]

Originally Posted by Lord Shrike

I agree with point one or at least I understand your objection to the term. What I meant to convey is those who would use there faith as a excuse or justification to kill innocents. On your second point I have to disagree. There is just as much material in the Bible as there is in the Qoran that can be twisted in murderous propaganda. Christianity went through this in the Dark ages. Islam still is. Espcially in the middle east.

Key words "can be twisted". That means it is twisted, not the way it should be. Obviously, you agree then. Murder is sin, and sin is not from God, but from Satan. True Christianity is against this. The Dark Ages were carried out by humans, with sinful, fallen natures. Besides, it can be argues that there really was a "Dark Ages" as art and intellect continued to flourish through this.

[BattleRifleG3]

Fact: The crusades didn't start until the Turks tossed out the agreements the Arabs had made with the Christians.

If anyone wants to call Christianity imperialistic, explain to me why there are a lot more Arabs in Spain than Europeans in Morocco? Yes, there were imperialists who were Christians. There were also imperialists who weren't. The lands colonized by Christians have since been turned over to self-government. The lands taken by Mohammedans have remained under their control unless seized by others.

And if you want to talk religious leaders, find me a high profile Muslim cleric who condems the actions of terrorism and condemned Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and his subsequent mass murders and tortures. Every global and national Christian entity that I know of is either reserved or even disapproving of the US war in Iraq. You will never hear the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury, or Billy Graham call for Christians to kill anyone.

So called "Christians" (we call them heretics) who claim such things are promptly condemned by every orthodox (Bible believing, Trinitarian, saved by Grace) Christian group, who will support every effort of the law to prevent such crimes and bring justice to their perpetrators.

I wouldn't consider a practicing christian as an extreme christian. The primary teaching of Christ was to love one another.
In fact the example I gave was that of the Branch Davidians in Waco TX.
They operated as a cult.

I also think those who kill doctors who perform abortions in the name of God are off the mark. Most opponents of abortion would agree on that also.

Actually, you are mistaken when you say "if they followed their religon to the letter of the law, they'd all be simaler to Osama Bin Laden."
Bin Laden subcribes to an outdated and outcast flavor of islam that really has been voted down throughout the ages. It would be simaler to a christian group who burned witches at the stake.
I don't have a full grasp of the schism involved in the early Muslim history, but the way Bin Laden does it is not the way most devote muslims practice their faith.

Religon is a human invention and therefore flawed. More gross misdeeds have been done in the name of God than anything. A lot of good things have been done in the name of God, but I digress

All of the worlds religons have things in common about practicing compassion, being a part of something larger than yourself and, loving one another.
Islam is no different in this respect. The problem arises when people attach their own agendas to Islam or Christianity and make it into something it is not. Bin Laden and his ilk have done this.
The good news is, we have a way of dealing with those people. It involves bullets and explosives. Whoopie!

Jordan spoke out against Saddam Hussien.

[BattleRifleG3]

Mohammedanism is full of contradictions between warmongering and peace loving, between debauchery and purity. Every Muslim I've met has been a peacable person. They've also chosen to be in the United States. And they are quite pluralistic about their faith. Most peacable Muslims will believe that "God has many names" and that there are many paths in different religions that lead to God.

I do NOT believe that. I believe that we are saved ONLY by Jesus Christ and that paths apart from him are not the paths of salvation (whether non-Christians can be saved is a different issue than whether such people can be saved by something other than Christ).

Call me a hard-liner, call me closed minded, go ahead, it's probably true. I don't believe that the Bible contradicts itself. And I believe that it is the truth (literal interpretation is a different matter), that there is no other above it, and it will NEVER compel me to murder anyone.

Every peacable Muslim I have met has seen their faith as intellectual, inspirational, and cultural; and devotion within that context, similar to the views of many Reformed Jews I have met. This as opposed to be devoted to their religion above all else.

Bottom line is that war-mongering Muslims go against their religion. Peace loving Muslims also go against their religion. The only way to reconcile it is to think beyond Islam.

And to any Muslims whom I have offended, I respect you with your beliefs and ask that you respect mine. Online forums can be yucky on these subjects, but I think it's ok to be honest and frank as long as we do not become insulting or threatening.

[BattleRifleG3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kaneko

Jordan spoke out against Saddam Hussien.

It took me a moment to realize you meant the country, not the basketball player.

[BattleRifleG3]

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/shroder/040618

BattleRifle, you have just pointed out what makes horseraces interesting.
In that respect, I just finished reading "Father Joe" by Tony Hendra. It is about one man's relationship with a Benedictine Monk over his lifetime. It's about having faith, losing faith, finding faith and, what happens between those events.

[ScottD]

Dang you finally said something I agree with. But I'll still be watching you.

[Shaun]

Scott he is even surprising me

[savparts]

Lets try some history? The American Revolution was won by the Colonies because the colonies did not fight standing up to the British Troops, instead they sneak and fire. The British thought this was BARBARIC way to fight a war. Now if the British would have adopted to the Colonies way of fighting we would be a part of England. So we need to fight them over there the same way, they fight. and not be intimated to use the same tactics they use.