[ScottD]

I called my distributor today to order Knights Red Hot 180gr Sabot .50 cal. bullets. These bullets are made by Barnes Bullets for Knight Muzzleloaders and are sold 10 to card with sabots.

Anyway they say it is a discontinued item by the manufacturer. So I call Barnes and they say the bullet is especially made for Knight and it is not for retail sales. Checking records, Knight has not ordered it in some time.

So I call Knight and I talk with Jeff and he confirms that it is not a popular seller and it looks like it is being discontinued.

Not good. After trying numerous loads and bullets my T/C Encore 209 X 50 muzzleloader shoots this bullet sub MOA at 100yds. And now to be told that it is discontinued is really upsetting. If you have shot a muzzleloader you know the frustration in acheiveing an acurate load.

And then to make matters worst Knight is charging full retail for these bullets. Having only enough funds for 4 cards I place the order, hoping that I'll get some more moneys at a later date to buy some more.

After I hang up the phone Jeff calls back and says, "Look, we are discontinuing and I'll sell them to you for dealer cost and I'll ship 6 cards."

He did not have to do that and I was pleasantly surprised when he did and I wanted to pass this on to you guys. Knight's Customer Service is the best.

[TScottW99]

Have you tried the T/C Shockwave in 250 grain or 300 grain. I'm getting 3/4" 100 yard groups with my CVA.

Also, give Cecil a call at http://www.prbullet.com with his Deadcenters. A GREAT bullet.

Sorry about the hotshots.

[ScottD]

Tscott, I'm not changing unless I have to. Right now I'm acheiving one hole accuracy with 2 shots @ 100yds. It's taken a lot of powder burning to get this combination to do this. I'll stick with it until I obsolutely have to change. Then I'll take ya up on your offer.

I did look up that Shockwave bullet and it looks like a good bullet.

Let me tell you why I am so hung up on this bullet. Opening day 2yrs. ago I shot a large WI buck at 30yds. I took him on the point of the left sholder tranversing the full length of his body the bullet was recovered under the skin on the far right hip. The deer literally did a back flip and drove his antlers into the ground. He kicked twice and that was it.

The next day a took another deer at 40yds broad side thru both shoulders. The animal traveled 15yds and piled up.

I just find it hard to change with all of the time spent and witnessing first hand what this combination can do. Some day I'll have to, but until then I'll buy up everything I can get my hands on.

[TScottW99]

I can understand. I like trying new bullets and actually got some Hevishot sabots in yesterday. Gives me something to do at the range. Though I can't see anything replacing my 300 grain Shockwaves. (which are really Hornady SST with a differn't color polymer tip and sabot)

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Do you two have any experiance with the 17 cal. in black powder? From what I have read, it seems pretty good, though not 45 or 50 cal. and, with some limits. Just thought I might ask.

[colt45]

the guys that come in the shop are saying the same thing, they are trying the new hornady saobt in 50. my budy shoots a falt nose all lead 45 round in a sbot for his 50 and he puts three out of three in the same hole at 100 off sand bags. i fyou don't have any luck finding another load PM me and i'll get you more info, i'm not much of a black powder guy so i allways check with him.

[ScottD]

Thanks guys. Rufus I never heard of a 17cal. muzzleloader. Seems to me that trying to load a powder charge down a 17cal muzzle would be pretty tough to do.

[TScottW99]

I've never heard of a .17 blackpowder. Just looked and found a .17 caliber ball for a derringer. I to would imagine it being hard to load the powder.

Now I have shot a couple of .32caliber for small game and really liked them. Wouldn't mind getting one, some day.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

I am no black powder expert. The rifle I was refering to was an "in-line" model. As I understand, this may solve the re-charge problem. The article focused on small game at longer distances......say 50-75 yards. i was surprised at muzzel velocity [ i won't quote stats because I do not remember them] and the various charges one could use depending on application. I have considered this rifle as well as, a 50 cal. in-line. These models seem to be easy to clean and much more reliable than other types. They even use. in some, a primer from the large bore reloaders. I thought it might be worth while to have....just in case.

[ScottD]

Rufus an inline refers to the ignition, powder and projectile are all in line with one another. The procedures in loading this type of muzzleloader is still the same in that powder has to be poured down the barrel and a projectile has to be put into the front of the barrel and rammed down the barrel. And then, usaully a cap is inserted on to a nipple for the source of ignition.

Considering that the projectiles diameter has a direct bearing on the diameter of the bore. I find it difficult to imagine trying to pour powder down a 17 caliber hole, much less trying to ram a projectile down a tight fitting barrel of that diameter. Seems to me the ramrod would be of such a small diameter that it would bend out of shape while trying to seat a bullet.

I don't know Rufus, but I'd check that article again IMHO.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

You are probably correct. It has been some time and I don't know the location of the article now. i'll continue to look for it. I'm sure I am correct but, it won't be the first time I was mistaken on something!