Draft?

[Oxford]

,..."I thought you goons were for smaller govt yet you fall all over your flags to increase spending like some drunk gambler."

K...your exact words above...

You're mixed up as usual and running off at the mouth blindly and stupidly. Apparently you haven't learned that saying those words is disrespectful to those whom you refer to as goons. I fail to see how those words refer to an idea, as you wrote. They're outright insults at anyone who disagrees with you.

Furthermore, it's obvious that you've never been "taken out behind the school building" for a lesson in common sense because that's where you could get your head bashed in by someone whom you've insulted. Are you a product of liberal left leaning parents who allowed you to run off at the mouth whenever and to whomever?

SRX...I apologize to you for getting off your subject...but K has made too many insulting comments for me to ignore.

[whirlwind]

HAHAHA your too funny! the draft isnt good for all nor is it bad for all. i know of alot of viet nam vets that were drafted in and served with distinction and most of the ones i know retired from the army after their 20 years was up. i had one platoon sgt that was given a choice to join the army or go to prison by a judge in maryland. and he stayed in and got his 20 dispite losing a few feet of intestine and carrying shrapnel in his spine since the mid 60's and on top of that he was also in the agent orange club and has fought with that. so yes you are disrespecting the veterans by implying that draftees are less motivated than soldiers that join on their own accord. im not saying that all draftees are highly motivated cause lord knows their not,but ive seen plenty of "volunteers" that i wouldnt trust my life to on a bet! soldiers are just people, their level of motivation doesnt hinge on wheather they were drafted or joined on their own. and you seem to think the draft as a whole is some right wing republican invention...who was the president when the last draft was put into place? and who was the president that stopped the draft? i personally dont see the need for a draft anyway. but if one comes it comes...life goes on. if my son has to go thats his duty and he will go. he dang sure wont be hopping the next thing moving headed north i guarantee that.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Well, lets see here. Bad managers, you say. What's the problem? We just get new managers and hold them accountable. Besides, your suggestion won't solve the man power problems we have. We need thousands not five or six! So what id mommies little johnnie has to go? He's probably a crack dealer anyway and we will most likely be saveing his life from the crack or his homies. We need the draft now! Not after we have started a couple more wars. Laugh if you will, there was a time America was respected and feared. Now they spit on us, attack our troops and our citizens. It's tiem we regain the glory we once commanded! Charge in with thousands of troops and see what happens! It still is an annoying question to me why , in iraq, we cannot stop these scumbags from blowing up the police stations! Can't anyone say " Secure the area!"? Blast them dirt bags the minute they come into view in the scopes! Even a stupid camel molester will learn eventually, to stay clear of Americans! Why is this so hard? Who cares what they think? We need more troops, plain and simple. You don't agree? Fine! I don't agree with you. That said, lets get the draft started.....Today!

Whirlwind is correct, if the draft comes it comes. It is a foolish waste of money and is not the answer to our current military problems. I'm with Rumsfeld on this issue.

[whirlwind]

i wasnt laughing at you rufus, i also think they need to get medevil on em over there but i dont think more soldiers is the answer,i think the answer is to get the politicians out of iraq along with the press and let the soldiers that are there do their job with extreme predjudice! (sp?) unlike our resident democrat (kaneko) i dont pretend to have all the answers...perhaps more soldiers would help? i dont know. but my opiniopn is that it wouldnt. in the current political climate there and here i believe the soldiers are not being allowed to clean stuff up like they should due to things like sensitivity training. it seems the government wants our soldiers to be ambassadors as well as warriors and i think thats wrong. soldiers are there to seriously f*** stuff up and kill folks. not to be goodwill ambassadors to a bunch of animals that would rather strap a bomb on there kid than a backpack for school.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

I suspect you are correct. I just get so frustrated with this crap. As you recall, no doubt, I have never been in favor of this war or the afghan war. I want our troops home but, know this is not going to happen any time soon. Then,. tha sabre rattling at Korea and iran. If we start more wars, where are the troops comeing from? Heck , the reserves are being used...we don't have enough troops now! Why do you think we call the reserve? Just my thought....

[Oxford]

Whirlwind...what you said makes a lot of sense.

"...it seems the government wants our soldiers to be ambassadors as well as warriors and i think thats wrong. soldiers are there to seriously f*** stuff up and kill folks. not to be goodwill ambassadors to a bunch of animals that would rather strap a bomb on there kid than a backpack for school." :right:

How do you expect to pay for this?
Should we increase taxes?
Should we cut programs like social security and medicare?

If not wanting another huge spending program makes me a liberal, well, I guess I'm guilty.

Rumsfeld is right on this point. In fact, most people on both sides of the aisle agree that a draft is not the answer.

I'm glad none of you hold any kind of political office.

[whirlwind]

well we could start to pay for it by cutting welfare completely out then we could also cut all foreign aid to countries that do not support the u.s. and the federal government could also save a little more money by not offering insentives to individual states to pass laws that should be the states decissions. such as a national standard speed limit.wonder how many federal billions were given to state road plans for that to happen? and im sure there are a billion other ways to cut the fed spending so that monies could be vectored into other areas where it was needed more without touching social security or medicare. perhaps congressional salaries should be cut too? just about everyone in congress is a millionaire anyway (if they werent they couldnt afford to run for congress) so how much salary do they really need? well if all these suggestions were acted on im sure the defense budget would not be a problem no matter how many fronts we found ourselves fighting on. and in closing i was tempted to say im also glad your not holding political office but then i realized that many just like you are.

[Oxford]

Whirlwind...you're onto something big. Just imagine how much cash the Local, State, Feds political bureauracy could save if they eliminated spending in the following areas (and more).

Here's a list of a small fraction of their programs and expenditures which could be eliminated:

Road building and maintenance, including city, county, state and federal
Social Security and their programs
Food Stamps program
Local, County, State and Federal Buildings
Local, County, State and Federal Federal Employees
All police and fire employees
All school funding at all levels
All military and defense from the state level through the federal level
All support for Cultural Arts programs
All government owned recreational programs
All publically funded museums, memorials, libraries, statues, etc.

...and the list goes on endlessly. There must be a zillion other ways our government spends our money.

Obviously, the problem, as I see it, is that everyone thinks their favorite government program should be salvaged...but cut the others. People who represent us at different political levels often times don't live up to their responsibilities...or to the best interests of the will of the people, allowing our goverment spending to increase more and more. Few "honest,common sense legislators" win in elections due to the current necessity to "buy" their elections by using political power and influence.

That's enough ranting...so I'll calm down and take a few deep breaths.

Ox

Oxford, you touched on the best point, every Senator and Congressman calls for cuts in the budget except in their back yard. Here are some problems about your prosepctive cuts.

Road building and maintenance, including city, county, state and federal
(Who would keep our interstates drivable for commerce. Do you suggest a return to the turnpike system where each state fixes its own price and the cost of goods changes with the shipping cost depending on each states tolls?)

Social Security and their programs
(If you are a veteran you would not get any benefits and no one gets rich carrying a gun)

Food Stamps program
(I know a lot of people in the military who use food stamps because their army pay is so low they can't afford to eat.)

Local, County, State and Federal Buildings
(All police, courthouses, prisons, army recruiting, Veterans hospitals would no longer exist.)

Local, County, State and Federal Federal Employees
(With all the unemployed workers on the street, without any federal aid, who would pay for the soliders you want to draft?)

All police and fire employees
(9-11 would suggest otherwise. So would all the fine upstanding police and fire employees who are members of this fine forum.)

All school funding at all levels
(Do you suggest everyone school their children at home? According to Rufus, the American public is stupid. Would you suggest private schools for those who don't want home schooling? Only people with a lot of money would be able to afford to educate their children)

All military and defense from the state level through the federal level
(This would eliminate the draft. Also, if you are a veteran, you get no more benefits)

All support for Cultural Arts programs
(By making sure people can't read you've already done that)

All government owned recreational programs
(Who needs the grand canyon anyway?)

All publically funded museums, memorials, libraries, statues, etc.
(Burn the Smithsonian, Reagan's grave, everything in Washington DC.. I think the Vietnam Memorial is ugly anyway. Screw the WWII monument, those guys are almost all dead. Who cares about a bunch of geezers and what they did last century)

Oxford, you should move to Afganistan outside of Kabul. The Taliban is a big fan of your ideas.

Furthermore, Whirlwind, what's wrong with being a millionaire? Is it now a crime to be rich?

[whirlwind]

or we could just take everyones salary and join the communist party!...the way i see it ,that aint that far off anyway

[Oxford]

K...You really bit on my post...hook, line and sinker. Didn't think you'd fall for it. Yet, in a way I'm not surprised.

Guess I'll have to spell it out more clearly for you. My entire post was a sarcastic attempt to show that every citizen has their own government programs which they don't want changed. Period! Nothing else.!

My guess is that you were so quick to show your arrogance, tactlessness, superior insight, and all the other antisocial communication skills that you continuously use on G&G, that you simply didn't think again.

[Lord Shrike]

At this point a draft is unnecessary. Volunteer armies fight better than conscript armies. Allways have allways will. Should the conflict with the Islamofacists in the middle east expand faster than we can maintain our forces than it will become necessary. Drafts are not allways bad ideas. If things are truly desparate and you need those forces to win than you have a draft. There is a ton of fat that could be cut from federal, state and local budjets that would not result in the downfall of civilization. The one department I do not have a problem with the government spending a ton of dough is defence since thats it primary objective. (at least it should be). Mr.K. grow up please your insults expose you for the snob you are and are growing tiresome.

[Oxford]

L.S. I was just sitting her thinking about some of the history of "drafts." In particular, about how the Ancient Romans drafted their legions of soldiers when they conquered a region. As I'm sure you know, it was either join...or be killed. Those who wouldn't fight were hung up on poles along the VIA's(Roman's word for roads) as examples of why others should join. Those who joined also might have been used as "slave soldiers" building roads, buildings, and even Hadrian's Wall, and more.

Yessiree! Those were the days of real drafts. Just in case someone takes this the wrong way. I'm not in favor of the Roman's style of draft.

[SexyRedXterra]

think they'll draft women? i'm just about the right age. if they do, i'll do my duty if drafted, but i have to tell you it's not something I ever expected.

Originally Posted by Oxford

K...You really bit on my post...hook, line and sinker. Didn't think you'd fall for it. Yet, in a way I'm not surprised.

Guess I'll have to spell it out more clearly for you. My entire post was a sarcastic attempt to show that every citizen has their own government programs which they don't want changed. Period! Nothing else.!

My guess is that you were so quick to show your arrogance, tactlessness, superior insight, and all the other antisocial communication skills that you continuously use on G&G, that you simply didn't think again.

No, I knew you were trolling. I just was bored after dinner and thought it would be fun to see if you'd do exactly what you just did.

"Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea. Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry.... But now 3.5 million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience.... In the councils of government we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted."

---Dwight Eisenhower

[whirlwind]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with being rich. my point in that small statement was that the election system should be available to all people that meet the requirements of office,not just millionaires. next time ill use smaller words for you

[Despoiler]

I think we should cut Social Security, let the old farts get a job!