Good Cop, Bad Cop, Striped Cop, Plaid Cop

[BattleRifleG3]

This is a little late, but I suppose better late than never.

First off, I want to thank every good police officer out there, including practically every one I've ever met, and who have graced this forum with your presence.

It is in fact your perspective that is the most important on this issue.

A couple weeks ago, GunGeek was driving his cousin home, and proceeded to make a left turn at a T intersection. He looked both ways and pulled forward. He was instantly slammed on the passenger by a fellow moving at a decent speed, probably speeding. Thankfully neither he nor his cousin were hurt, only shaken and sore afterwards. The passenger side door was crushed in and was unopenable, and the steering was drastically bent. The car has since been declared a total loss by his insurance.

How here's the yucky part: The fellow who hit them got out of the car screaming at them as though the accident were their fault. After that died down, GunGeek asked for the guy's insurance info. The guy refused to give it. "This ain't mah car." GunGeek wanted to call the police, but the guy threateningly told them not to. He had the same response when they wanted to walk up the street to get help from his cousin's family. "You better not go anywhere!" Well the guy gave a number and a name then got the higgedy out of there before GunGeek could even get his license plate #. That number rang up unavailable. The name probably wasn't his own either. GunGeek's cousin could have sworn he didn't see any headlights.

Call me paranoid, but that seems to scream "stolen car".

Here's where the cops come in: GunGeek called the police in his area, who told him they couldn't do anything, and that he had to call the police from that area, not being very helpful. He did that and they told him they couldn't do anything because it was after the fact.

Apparently the same department has been screwy like that to his relatives in the past.

Another barely related situation is where a cop who GunGeek's family knows was canned because he wouldn't go by the quota system. He was told by his department that if no one did anything wrong, they were to kick in their rear taillight and say that's why they were pulled over. That fellow has since taken up work with county police, I think. I think he may be fighting his dismissal.

So the big question for good police officers and good citizens is what are law abiding citizens to do when a police department is so negligent in some cases, and even lawless in others? I'm talking about channels of recourse, not vigilanteism. How do their responses sound to those in law enforcement who I'm sure have seen the best and the worst?

[Snakebite]

Oh come on BRG! I hope you dont believe in the cops kicking in tailiights to give a ticket! There is no quota.
Its plain and simple. GunGeeks fault for not looking both ways. How else could he have been hit from the side????
I'm sorry it happened and glad everyone is OK, but I think the blame should go to where it belongs....the driver turning at the T intersection...ie...GunGeek. Fess up and take the blame. Dont BS about the relatives, bad cops, not my fault, etc

[Oxford]

BR3...One of the first things people who are involved in an accident should do is to write down the license plate numbers...and, if possible, ask to see the drivers license of the other driver. Write down the make, color and other details of their car to the best of your ability, too.

Don't discuss fault at the scene with the other driver, but...tell the facts to the LEO.

Regarding the accident scenario, as you've described it, Gungeek's defense would be tough to prove. If Gungeek stopped...and yielded to traffic traveling front of him, there probably wouldn't have been an accident. If the other car was speeding, then Gungeek's usual look to see if traffic was clear may not have been sufficient to avoid the accident...but that's unprovable unless there were witnesses.

Without witnesses, it would appear that Gungeek didn't yield the right of way and would be responsible for the accident.

Bottom line...Gungeek will probably have an insurance claim which should have gone to the other driver...and that's not good.

[TheTeXasSoldier]

Luckly he ran into him instead of me, I would have got his license one way or another.

[TScottW99]

IF everything happened the way they are outlined in the above post...... (not to be mean, but there are always three sides, person #1, person #2 and then the truth that lies between)

GunGeek called the police in his area, who told him they couldn't do anything, and that he had to call the police from that area, not being very helpful. He did that and they told him they couldn't do anything because it was after the fact.

Telling someone that they couldn't help because an accident took place in another jurisdiction is normal. It has nothing to do about being helpful or not helpful, they have no powers in another persons jurisdiction.

As for the P.D. not helping in the right jurisdiction. The accident above is a hit and run. Depending on damage it could be a felony. If no one came to take a report I would call the department and ask for a Cpt. If I didn't get satisfaction from that I would move up the chain of command. If that didn't work either then the D.A.

As to what you can do if Police are being lawless? Make a formal complaint or contact your states Attorney General. Word of warning though, there better be a lawless act and not just a sore spot from a ticket or other non-sense. I have seen people charged with filing a false police report for such actions.

[dave375hh]

Why would you let him BS you out of calling the police. You'll need an accident report for the insurance anyway. Anyone who acts like that is hiding something, and the best way to make sure that I'll call the cops is to tell me not to. Best guess is he was driving under suspension for something(DUI, Insurance, Domestic, etc.).

[Dale]

I'm not familiar with Pennsylvania's traffic laws but it would seem, and is by most state laws, that if any participant in a traffic accident fails to cooperate with the other, or inhibits attempts to make notifications, and then leaves the scene has just hit and run.

I'd call the state police and explain to them the entire incident and about the resistance you received from the other police department (although TScott is correct about jurisdictional problems) and ask them to intercede or, at least, steer you in a direction where you'll get assistance.

With your back against the wall you also have the State Attorney General's Office you can call and file a compalint about the lack of cooperation, etc.

[colt45]

don't know what to tell you bud but the police have to take a report here even if it is after the fact. any vehicle damage over $300 has to be reported here, even if you have to go to the station to do it.
but not getting the police there when it happened that was stupid. if the guy was threatening thats all the more reason to have called them.

[Nobody]

BRG3 -

You didn't give enough info for a complete evaluation of the situation. What type/kind of traffic control was present at the intersection, i.e., one, two, or three way stop signs, yield, flashing amber, red, etc., or no control at all?

Was GunGeek approaching from the base of the "T" or from the right crossbar (I'll assume he wasn't coming from the left crossbar since he was making a left turn)?

It appears from your narrative that he was hit almost immediately upon entering the intersection so was probably entering from base of the "T".

If he entered from a stop or yield sign and the other driver had no such control sign, then GunGeek is pretty well at fault.

In any case, the police should have been called immediately regardless of the other party's objection/intimidation tactics.

I'd be surprised if the insurance company doesn't give him a hard time settling because of failure to obtain at lease minimal information from/about the other driver/vehicle, and the delay in filing/obtaining an accident report.

[BattleRifleG3]

Actually, the insurance company has been very cooperative. Yes, I would describe it as hit and run as well. YES GunGeek looked both ways at his own stop sign (I believe it was a one way stop). Seriously, headlights were not seen and based on the other details, I doubt they were on (ie driving without lights to avoid detection).

As far as the departments go, they seemed much more eager to get rid of him than to help him get to the right people, not seeming to care that it smelled strongly like a stolen car and a hit and run. I've had nothing but good experiences with police north and east of Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh there have been mostly good ones and a few ignorant ones, and there are two departments south and west of Pittsburgh in specific who seem to be on the lousy side, ie good officers getting canned and leadership being nasty. I'm sure every good officer has met his share of lousy ones.

In retrospect of course a lot would have been done differently. I'm a generally more confident (sometimes too much) person than GG, and I would have called the police and blasted the mofo if he acted violently against me, and cited the law if he objected (no, not just for raising his voice and threatening, I know the law.)

[Dennis]

to bad