Buglar shot with own gun by Victim

Shaun · 07-22-2004, 11:15 AM

I want a poll on this was it self defense or not?

SAN FRANCISCO
Victim shoots alleged burglar with own gun

Julian Guthrie
Wednesday, July 21, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After a suspected burglar pulled a gun on a Western Addition resident coming home Tuesday, the two men wrestled for the weapon before the resident shot the fleeing suspect, police said.

The 1 p.m. shooting at an apartment in the 1100 block of Fell Street left the alleged burglar hospitalized with several gunshot wounds. Police arrested the home's resident, Harvey Williams, 29, for assault with a deadly weapon.

The alleged burglar, whose name is not being released, was in surgery Tuesday night at San Francisco General Hospital. The suspect will face charges of burglary, robbery, carrying a concealed weapon and carrying a loaded firearm, Officer Maria Oropeza said.

Williams confronted the alleged burglar at the front door of his apartment. The suspect pulled the gun. As the men struggled for the weapon down a flight of stairs, shots were fired several times.

The gun landed on the sidewalk. Williams picked up the gun, which he claims went off by accident, Oropeza said. He chased and fired at the suspect for a half-block, before the alleged burglar fell at the corner of Scott and Fell streets. Williams held the suspect at gunpoint until police arrived.

By shooting at the alleged burglar who was running away, Williams was no longer acting in self defense, Oropeza said.

NRAJOE · 07-22-2004, 11:18 AM

NO - he was running away...sorry.

You don't shoot a fleeing man unless you saw him kill someone.

Shaun · 07-22-2004, 11:22 AM

Even though this was a bad shoot because he chased the BG and eliminated the need for self defense and the matter should have turned to LEO's at that point. I would still say this will harm our movements for Carry because it goes to show some people are going to have shootouts in the street. Yes he did the tax payers a favor by shooting the BG and I would congratulate him on doing so but I would scold him for chasing down the BG. LEO's technically can shoot a fleeing felon but most don't unless there is a true need to protect someone from threat to life or safety.

Mandy · 07-22-2004, 11:36 AM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

The suspect asked for trouble and got what he deserved !!!

:uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

07-22-2004, 11:41 AM

well he didn't get away to pose a threat to somebody else..

Mandy · 07-22-2004, 11:56 AM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

I got to clarify something, I'm not in favor of killing a man cold blooded by shooting him in the back.

Allready said that, I don't mind that the SOB got shot, he deserved what happened to him !!!

:uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

Rave · 07-22-2004, 01:10 PM

Went OK until the "suspect",apparently unarmed,ran and he poped him in the back,don't know what the charges will be when it is over,good thing the "suspect" didn't die.

Despoiler · 07-23-2004, 12:55 AM

I bet the San Fran. D.A. will throw the book at the shooter, the same D.A. who won't go after the death penalty for a man who shot a cop. This guy is in a lot of trouble.

RIDGERUNNER · 07-23-2004, 05:36 AM

I'm sorry but I'm not gonna shoot a man in the back unless he has done something really bad...something like hurting my wife or son

RIDGERUNNER · 07-23-2004, 05:38 AM

I meant to add that he did ask for trouble and I dont agree with pressing charges against the guy for shooting him

07-23-2004, 06:44 AM

the burglar was armed with his own weapon which to me proves bad intentions..if I were the shooter's defense attorney I would move for aquittal by reason of self defense after all the burglar knew the risks and had prepared himself for an armed homeowner beforehand "Malice Aforethought"

flipzter · 07-23-2004, 09:41 PM

Shootin in the back is wrong. But........ I bet the thieving !!!!!!! will think twice before he pulls a gun on anyone else.

Sniper[MI] · 07-23-2004, 09:45 PM

I think it is funny the BG fell on Fell street........

SilverRun · 07-23-2004, 10:30 PM

I feel bad for the victim. In this case, that is the resident that had a sorry SOB shove a gun in his face in his own home. But, It was not self-defense once the BG left the building - running down the street. The victim should have stopped at the door and thanked God he was alive. However, I can’t in good conscious say that I wouldn’t have done the same thing. Maybe he will be lucky enough to get someone like me on the jury! Good Luck to him.

07-23-2004, 10:33 PM

I believe the burglar posed a fatal threat to a future victim..had he not been shot and apprehended

Dennis · 07-24-2004, 05:34 AM

The guys where fighting over the gun, fireing the gun while fighting over it
so the burgular had allready tried to kill the guy
So they are in a fight for their lives and the burgular started it....
the guy gets the gun and fires it at the burgular
he stopped the burgular and held him for the police.
so he didnt kill the burgular
and the burgular had become a assault with a deadly weapon
(thats a felony)the man had fought through the assault prevailed and stopped the bugular NOT killing him

They should NOT be charging him with anything

steel_warrior1 · 07-24-2004, 02:21 PM

What would you do in the case is what the question should be. Wouldn't your blood be boiling after someone trys to rob you. This man did what most people in the USA would do.

View Poll Results: Sefl defense or not
Yes - the buglar might have recovered the weapon or had another.	10	66.67%
NO - he was running away	5	33.33%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

07-22-2004, 11:15 AM	#1
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,776 Images: 1	Buglar shot with own gun by Victim I want a poll on this was it self defense or not? SAN FRANCISCO Victim shoots alleged burglar with own gun Julian Guthrie Wednesday, July 21, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After a suspected burglar pulled a gun on a Western Addition resident coming home Tuesday, the two men wrestled for the weapon before the resident shot the fleeing suspect, police said. The 1 p.m. shooting at an apartment in the 1100 block of Fell Street left the alleged burglar hospitalized with several gunshot wounds. Police arrested the home's resident, Harvey Williams, 29, for assault with a deadly weapon. The alleged burglar, whose name is not being released, was in surgery Tuesday night at San Francisco General Hospital. The suspect will face charges of burglary, robbery, carrying a concealed weapon and carrying a loaded firearm, Officer Maria Oropeza said. Williams confronted the alleged burglar at the front door of his apartment. The suspect pulled the gun. As the men struggled for the weapon down a flight of stairs, shots were fired several times. The gun landed on the sidewalk. Williams picked up the gun, which he claims went off by accident, Oropeza said. He chased and fired at the suspect for a half-block, before the alleged burglar fell at the corner of Scott and Fell streets. Williams held the suspect at gunpoint until police arrived. By shooting at the alleged burglar who was running away, Williams was no longer acting in self defense, Oropeza said. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

07-22-2004, 11:18 AM	#2
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,353 Images: 3	NO - he was running away...sorry. You don't shoot a fleeing man unless you saw him kill someone. __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany Last edited by NRAJOE; 07-22-2004 at 11:20 AM.

07-22-2004, 11:22 AM	#3
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,776 Images: 1	Even though this was a bad shoot because he chased the BG and eliminated the need for self defense and the matter should have turned to LEO's at that point. I would still say this will harm our movements for Carry because it goes to show some people are going to have shootouts in the street. Yes he did the tax payers a favor by shooting the BG and I would congratulate him on doing so but I would scold him for chasing down the BG. LEO's technically can shoot a fleeing felon but most don't unless there is a true need to protect someone from threat to life or safety. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/ Last edited by Shaun; 07-22-2004 at 11:52 AM.

07-22-2004, 11:36 AM	#4
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: The suspect asked for trouble and got what he deserved !!! :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: Last edited by Mandy; 07-22-2004 at 11:59 AM.

07-22-2004, 11:41 AM	#5
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	well he didn't get away to pose a threat to somebody else..

07-22-2004, 11:56 AM	#6
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: I got to clarify something, I'm not in favor of killing a man cold blooded by shooting him in the back. Allready said that, I don't mind that the SOB got shot, he deserved what happened to him !!! :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

07-22-2004, 01:10 PM	#7
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,193	Went OK until the "suspect",apparently unarmed,ran and he poped him in the back,don't know what the charges will be when it is over,good thing the "suspect" didn't die. __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

07-23-2004, 12:55 AM	#8
Despoiler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Occupied Territory of California Posts: 2,235	I bet the San Fran. D.A. will throw the book at the shooter, the same D.A. who won't go after the death penalty for a man who shot a cop. This guy is in a lot of trouble.

07-23-2004, 05:36 AM	#9
RIDGERUNNER Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Upper East Tennessee Posts: 37	I'm sorry but I'm not gonna shoot a man in the back unless he has done something really bad...something like hurting my wife or son

07-23-2004, 05:38 AM	#10
RIDGERUNNER Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Upper East Tennessee Posts: 37	I meant to add that he did ask for trouble and I dont agree with pressing charges against the guy for shooting him

07-23-2004, 06:44 AM	#11
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	the burglar was armed with his own weapon which to me proves bad intentions..if I were the shooter's defense attorney I would move for aquittal by reason of self defense after all the burglar knew the risks and had prepared himself for an armed homeowner beforehand "Malice Aforethought"

07-23-2004, 09:41 PM	#12
flipzter Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 47	Shootin in the back is wrong. But........ I bet the thieving !!!!!!! will think twice before he pulls a gun on anyone else.

07-23-2004, 09:45 PM	#13
Sniper[MI] Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Future 51st state, "New Hope" Posts: 3,796	Kind of funny part I think it is funny the BG fell on Fell street........ __________________ FNUH!

07-23-2004, 10:30 PM	#14
SilverRun Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AL Posts: 1,666	I feel bad for the victim. In this case, that is the resident that had a sorry SOB shove a gun in his face in his own home. But, It was not self-defense once the BG left the building - running down the street. The victim should have stopped at the door and thanked God he was alive. However, I can’t in good conscious say that I wouldn’t have done the same thing. Maybe he will be lucky enough to get someone like me on the jury! Good Luck to him.

07-23-2004, 10:33 PM	#15
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	I believe the burglar posed a fatal threat to a future victim..had he not been shot and apprehended

07-24-2004, 05:34 AM	#16
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,896	The guys where fighting over the gun, fireing the gun while fighting over it so the burgular had allready tried to kill the guy So they are in a fight for their lives and the burgular started it.... the guy gets the gun and fires it at the burgular he stopped the burgular and held him for the police. so he didnt kill the burgular and the burgular had become a assault with a deadly weapon (thats a felony)the man had fought through the assault prevailed and stopped the bugular NOT killing him They should NOT be charging him with anything __________________ Submitted with respect to all

07-24-2004, 02:21 PM	#17
steel_warrior1 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Oberlin, Kansas (Middle of nowhere.) Posts: 435	What would you do in the case is what the question should be. Wouldn't your blood be boiling after someone trys to rob you. This man did what most people in the USA would do. __________________ Come Check Out My Pacific Tool Company Website! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] http://pacificreloaders.awardspace.com/