[BattleRifleG3]

Actually, it is the 13th that criminalizes slavery. The 14th guarantees equal protection of the law. Both came around the same time. 14th also said that no state could abridge privileges or immunities already held under federal law. That's the case being made to Ashcroft about Kalifornia's gun laws, that KA is abridging freedoms held by citizens of the nation.

[Calvin]

What gets me about this whole thing is that these people who want money were never slaves themselves. Most Americans came here to escape from harsh government control of their native country. I'm not sorry for what my ancestors did, and I will not apologize to anyone. Things happened back then. It was a different time, and things that were tolerable then are not today, but that doesn't give someone the right to tell me that I owe them for something done to their ancestors. If things are so bad for these people, then I, for one, would be willing to give them a one-way ticket back to wherever they supposedly came from. They call themselves African-Americans, and if they dislike America so much, then drop the American, and have their citizenship revoked.
Doglips made a great observation of the Holocaust. More whites were killed in 6 years than any other race in 50 years. Don't forget Stalin, either. He had more than 6 million people killed while he was in power, and that was a VERY conservative estimate. Some experts say as high as 10-12 million were exterminated in Russia during WW2. And, almost every single one was white.So, my question is this;
If the Jewish population can get along with the world today, after all that has happened to them, why can't the African-"Americans" get along, too?
I was not brought up to be this way. I hate the "my people" attitude, and will not tolerate that talk in my presence, nor that of my family. If "they" want to divide, then have at it. I just want to live my life in peace. I may not have a lot, but what's mine is mine, and I worked for it. Maybe "they" should do the same......

[colt45]

Hay the way I see it they should be paying these companys for bringing their ansestors here, where they can sit back on wellfare and medicare and sip their gin and juice while I work my a#$ off to suport them. What the He*& kind of life would these whining nogoods have if they where still over in Africa. We all watch the news does anyone think that's a better way of life than here in America?
Sorry to sound so bigited but its time we called the kettle black.
The Minoritys have been handed everything on a silver plater because of what happened to people they never even knew.while the rest of us get kicked out of our jobs or refused jobs because the companys have to hire minoritys that don't want to work when they can get it all for free. with all the hand outs out there for minoritys there is no reason they can't be at the top when they go to collage for free. I have to spend my money to put my son in collage so he can be told sorry we can't hire you because we have to give the job to an under qualified minority.
Give them all reperation? Heck yes, A one way ticket to anywhere but here. See if they whine about America after that.

[Stewart]

Well, I have sat back and looked at this one for a while and I guess I am now inclined to chime in. Just so the tone is set, I don’t care about slavery reparations. There is nothing that I want any of these companies to pay me for how they may have benefited during the time of slavery. Frankly I don’t know how many of these companies are still in existence today, but far more individual owners would have benefited in any event. It is interesting though how the article indicated companies not individuals, were being sought out, but perhaps this point was missed.

There are some specific items I would like to reply to however:

“I'm not sorry for what my ancestors did, and I will not apologize to anyone. Things happened back then. It was a different time, and things that were tolerable then are not today.”

It was also a different time in Nazi Germany when Jews were being rounded up and sent to concentration camps, it was also a different time when Japenese Americans were forced to give up their property, jobs, and homes, and move to internment camps here in the U.S. Just because it was tolerable at the time it happened doesn’t mean that most people would not regret what took place. No, I don’t want an apology from you for what your ancestors may or may not have done, but realize the context of the statement.

Speaking of Jews and Japanese Americans, what caused some of these discussions of reparations?

“If the Jewish population can get along with the world today, after all that has happened to them, why can't the African-"Americans" get along, too?”

As far as I remember Jews did demand and get reparations (Again the important part) from German companies that benefited from slave labor of the Jews during WWII. Japanese Americans also demanded reparations for businesses that they were forced to give up, homes, etc. when they were forced into camps. These decisions are what have opened the door for discussions on reparations.


“If things are so bad for these people, then I, for one, would be willing to give them a one-way ticket back to wherever they supposedly came from. They call themselves African-Americans, and if they dislike America so much, then drop the American, and have their citizenship revoked.”

I personally don’t like the title, “African American”. I was born in Brooklyn not Africa, for that matter my closest relatives were all born in this country. The reason we have this distinction is because everyone in this country is obsessed with being able to categorize somebody somehow. Next time you look at an application check to say what is shown under the race block. If you want to call me anything, call me American.

“Hay the way I see it they should be paying these companys for bringing their ansestors here, where they can sit back on wellfare and medicare and sip their gin and juice while I work my a#$ off to suport them. What the He*& kind of life would these whining nogoods have if they where still over in Africa. We all watch the news does anyone think that's a better way of life than here in America?
Sorry to sound so bigited but its time we called the kettle black.”

When people wonder why some certain things sound offensive read above, who are they? I am not on welfare and I personally don’t like gin, and if I did I wouldn’t drink it with juice, I prefer a nice Chardony.

"The Minoritys have been handed everything on a silver plater because of what happened to people they never even knew.while the rest of us get kicked out of our jobs or refused jobs because the companys have to hire minoritys that don't want to work when they can get it all for free. with all the hand outs out there for minoritys there is no reason they can't be at the top when they go to collage for free. I have to spend my money to put my son in collage so he can be told sorry we can't hire you because we have to give the job to an under qualified minority. "

As a “minority” I am curious about where this silver platter is? No one has handed me a thing, nor do I want them too. As far as getting things “because of what happened to people they never knew” My further served this country in the armed forces, his barracks was separate from the white servicemen (someone else’s idea not his) and for additional effect their barracks were painted black. I know him quite well. What would have been his chances of having the same opportunities as the white servicemen that he served with......???? This is not ancient history.

If anything most recent attempts at affirmative action were with perhaps good intention to compensate not for what happened during slavery but within the last 30 to 40 years in this country. What I want is an even playing field for all Americans regardless of color.

[BattleRifleG3]

Amen Stewart!
(pronounced "ah-men" as befitting to my Episcopal/Presbyterian heritage, as opposed to the more contemporary "ay-men" in common usage among basically everyone else)

[colt45]

Stewart,
The "they" I was refering to are the "everybody owes me something because of what was done to my ansesters croud"
It was not directed tword any one race despite the kettle black coment(bad choice of words) and if this offended you I'm sorry for that. As for the silver plater just stop by any NY social service office or comunity collage and clain to be a minority. the playing field does not come up to equal by far its in the other direction if it was equal and I had not seen this repeatedly for the last several years I would never have claimed the silver plater statment.
I have seen it for years here in NY as a cop and working for the department of labor.
As for your fathers misstreatment at the hands of the millitary.
In todays standards its uneceptable. At the time it happened I'm sure it was equaly unfaverable with many in the millitary, just not the ones that where in a position to change it at the time.
Here is where the problem lies we keep refering back to what has hapened and not addressing what is hapening this is not 30 or 40 years ago or back in the 1800's this is 2002 we need to address the problem today not try to justify the problems or blame them off on the events of yesterday. this is why there will never be peace in the midle east untill either the jews kill all the arabs or vise versa the hatred there has been nurtured over hundreds of years because of some wrong done by one or the other and no one addressed the problem as being here and now and not what you or your father did back then.
As for affermitive action I know it was done with good intention but it also took away any freedom of choice for any employer to hire the applicants that they feel will be their best employee and forced to make hireing decitions based on race. Sure you will have some guys out there that would not hire a black, mic or whap because hes not the same race as he is so what we have freedom of choice in America. If I don't get hired by someone and he tells me sorry fella you'r not getting this job cause you'r a mic. So be it. move on to next the place. (At the same time blacks where being segragated this was hapening to my ansestors right there in brooklyn.) when I loose my job because the state says that you don't have enough minoritys on the payroll and you have to hire more. then its not an equal playing field. I'm proud to say I'm American born here and God willing will die here I make no claim for reperations of wrong doing by any other race that has in some way or other done wrong by my ansestors. My family no matter where they came from or how they got here is American and as such we need to address the problem at hand not dwell on or try to make up for the past.
Let me say agin Sir, If my coments offended you I'm sorry.

[Klaus]

The reparations paid to Jews and Japanese Americans (and legal aliens) was due the the Governments themselves ILLEGALLY destroying people's businesses, imprisoning them, and in the case of those Left Wing NAZIS, enslaving people. This is a very important distinction that the reparations crowd keeps trying to gloss over. I repeat, the reparations were paid because of the illegal actions of the governments in question.

[johno]

I'm a Californian, and I've lived here all my life. I'm not going to defend my state against all that you guys care saying, since I agree with it. I'm in the reserves and in college, and plan to leave the state when I can.

This whole reparations for slavery is one issue that i'm getting really sick of. here's my take on it. It's all just a lie put on by people that dont' want to earn thier own money, or want to buy votes. Didn't over half a million white americans die so that those ungrateful *******s could be free? and now they want compensation because thier ancestors were wronged over a hundred years ago? The US government spent millions of dollars in the civil war to free them, but i guess they don't care because it doesn't go into thier own pockets or buy votes. Although the federal government allowwed slavery to an extent, it was as much matter of what the individual states wanted as it was a federal thing.

Since they're claiming a right for money for practically everything, I suppose i oughta jump on the bandwagon with my own claim. my great great grandfather owned 99 slaves. since the 5th amendment states that the government cannot take private property without just compensation, i want my share of that compensation that is over 150 years overdue. not to mention the plantation that was burned by union soldiers. but imy case would never get anywhere, since I'm white make and an nra member. not that i care much, i didn't earn the money.

[dhermesc]

Sorry, but while the black population was "enjoying" their indepence my great grandfather was still being sold as a serf (slave to the land) in Poland. When serfdom finally died out in the late 1800s he and my grandfather had a degree of freedom but lead the life equivilent to a share cropper.

Grandpa left shortly before the start of WW1, gained his US citizenship by joining the army. He came over with two brothers and left three behind. They and their families where killed by the Nazis for being catholic (and possibly partisans-either way they had all dissappeared by'44). I'll take my check in Euros.

By the way, I wonder how many votes Gay Grey will buy when the general population finds out that the reparations will be paid to groups like Jesse's Rainbow Coalition, and the NAACP. The intention is to bar INDIVIDUALs from collecting.

[BattleRifleG3]

An interesting fact in the statistics of poverty and crime on a racial basis...
When you look more closely, poverty and crime don't really fall along racial lines. They fall along the lines of homes without fathers. White homes without fathers have similar rates of crime and poverty to black homes without fathers, as black homes with stale families have the same level of prosperity as do white homes, actually statistically better.
People need to quit blaming others for their misfortune and deal with the real issues. And who keeps begging for reparation money but the illegitimate father Jesse Jackson.

[Stewart]

Colt, No hard feelings, It's just that some remarks were very open ended and left it to the reader to "read between the lines", that made me a little uncomfortable. I wasn't sure if you were using a certain group as an example, or implying that all minorities are a part of that group. Part of the problem with the whole reparation discussion is who are the “They”? Who are those who are pushing this particular issue? None of the people I know have the slightest bit of interest in slavery reparations.

Most people I know just want an even and equal opportunity based on their qualifications. I still don’t know that I would categorize some of the things that you mentioned seeing in the social services office or community college system as being a silver platter. The reason that there may appear to be an “inequality” is because of what happened in the last 30 – 40 years. When I mentioned my father’s situation it also was to demonstrate that there were certain opportunities that he was not going to have a chance at getting… for one reason. Affirmative action was not intended to force the employer to higher someone unqualified just because he or she was a minority. It was intended to give a qualified minority a chance at an opportunity that they had not previously been afforded because of race. If the person failed, fine. If they succeed, fine. But at least they would be afforded the opportunity to determine an outcome.

An employer who says I don’t want to hire you because you are Italian, or Irish, or Japanese, or whatever, is not demonstrating freedom of choice, he’s demonstrating racism. I agree that we need to move forward as a country, I also understand that some of these things which may seem unequal today are due to inequalities that happened during the last 30 – 40 years, and unfortunately still in some cases today. Correcting the disparity, and putting everyone at an equal starting point is all that I think most people want. Thanks for your clarification, and again, no hard feelings.